Rioting at Charlottsville Va (UVA) by white nationalists and counter protesters

TIDE-HSV

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Probably not, but listening to talking heads talk today, it seems that the DOJ can make a charge of terrorism stick to the driver. Making "hate crimes" or even 1st degree murder stick will be more difficult because the driver did not know any of the victims (one killed, and 11 or so wounded).

One lawyer talking head said pursuing state and federal charges for the same act was not double jeopardy. I will defer to the lawyers on this board.

That said, I hope they throw the book at this a-hole and he never sees a day out of prison again.
They were correct. It may be the same act, but it can violate both a state and federal statute. Generally, they agree on who will take the first prosecution. If it's high profile, McVey, Roof, generally the feds will take the lead, with the state reserving the right to try again, if they don't like the outcome...
 

Tide1986

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They were correct. It may be the same act, but it can violate both a state and federal statute. Generally, they agree on who will take the first prosecution. If it's high profile, McVey, Roof, generally the feds will take the lead, with the state reserving the right to try again, if they don't like the outcome...
Since we've gone down the slippery slope of incorporation, protection from double jeopardy should be incorporated against the States.
 

cuda.1973

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Well, over at some site, that a lot you don't care for, someone had an interesting article.

I'll just post the cogent points, for you amusement or whatever.

Those rallying under the mantra “National Socialism Now” this weekend chose the perfect slogan if not for that “w” at the end. The protestors descending upon Charlottesville wrongly label themselves “right.” In no sense of the word do socialists, no matter the prefix, fall under any category of “right.”

They do not oppose the Left. They imitate them.
They resemble a white people’s Black Panther Party or La Raza in that they wish to divide the United States based on race. They bash the police attempting to retain the order they help to unravel. They practice identity politics. They settle questions with violence. They do not respect freedom of speech but whine loudly when the muzzles come for them. When they see their enemies yelling at them in the street, they look in the mirror but remain too lacking in self-awareness to recognize their reflection.
Charlottesville’s bloody Saturday resembled Altona Bloody Sunday, a deadly series of skirmishes between National Socialists and Soviet Socialists. Idiots debating with their fists instead of their brains miss the obvious. In Germany, competitors fought over a share of the knucklehead constituency. In Charlottesville, people united on ideology but divided by race brawled because they believed something special separated them.

Some too-common traits unite them: stupidity, turpitude, hatred, fanaticism, imprudence, and so on.
Among those are two things:

Hatred of our Constitution, since it provides for too many liberties, and
Support for a strong, centralized gubbament, that quashes views they don't align with.

And cult-like worship of a leader.

Wait..............that is three things. Ok, among them the following three things.........
 

TIDE-HSV

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Since we've gone down the slippery slope of incorporation, protection from double jeopardy should be incorporated against the States.
It's been defined as not being double jeopardy almost since the beginning of the republic. It's part of having a federal system...
 

TIDE-HSV

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TIDE-HSV

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The concept of double jeopardy predates the Constitution and the Bill of Rights by centuries. It has nothing at all to do with incorporation. We imported it with the common law. However, the British abolished it in 2005 after 800 years...
What I'm trying to say is that all common law states incorporate the concept into the laws of the individual estates independently of the BoR, as part of the borrowed British common law. It is in no way imposed on the states by the Fifth Amendment...
 

Tide1986

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What I'm trying to say is that all common law states incorporate the concept into the laws of the individual estates independently of the BoR, as part of the borrowed British common law. It is in no way imposed on the states by the Fifth Amendment...
Imposition, if any, would be by the 14th Amendment.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Imposition, if any, would be by the 14th Amendment.
Double jeopardy is set out in the 5th. However, as I said, all common law states - and even the civil law states - recognize it on their own, not because it's imposed as a fiat by the federal government. It's pretty much just the English speaking countries which are in love with it. The other European countries have only pale versions of it, if any, and in Italy, apparently, they can retry you forever. Australia abolished it last year after trying the first time in 2007 and New Zealand has huge exceptions...
 

rolltide_21

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Consider yourself lucky.

He was a Grand Wizard of the Klan. In 1989, he got elected to some kind of STATE level seat in Louisiana, and a lot of the black members walked out at his swearing in (or whatever you call it).

In 1991, he ran for governor of Louisiana. The national GOP publicly denounced him and refused to give him any money. So desperate were the people of LA to NOT have him that the Democrats trotted out perhaps the biggest vote getter and sure thing since Huey Long, a womanizing and corrupt rogue named Edwin Edwards, which was about like trying to pick in the national race last fall (I'm only slightly exaggerating). President Bush 41 publicly denounced him, too, and there were bumper stickers all over the state saying "Vote for the Crook: It's Important."
Thank you for this information. I was familiar with his connection with the KKK and being in the leadership. Not so much with his politics. I guess my point is, which I failed to make, is that anyone 35 and under knows very little about him. He's largely irrelevant as a figure in the political world. So, he has to grab attention when and where he can.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Thank you for this information. I was familiar with his connection with the KKK and being in the leadership. Not so much with his politics. I guess my point is, which I failed to make, is that anyone 35 and under knows very little about him. He's largely irrelevant as a figure in the political world. So, he has to grab attention when and where he can.
And he never misses a good riot...
 

Bazza

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Woman on CNN right now is wearing a tee shirt that says. "If you are not outraged you are not paying attention"

Seriously?

Passion is a good thing but too many angry people.

They should channel their anger into something more productive than politics.

Like gardening....or walking on a beach......riding a bike.....life is too short to create friction.
 

Jon

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David French at National Review keeps doing it right

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450433/alt-rights-chickens-come-home-roost

It is not the responsibility of the president of the United States to make specific statements every time a gang of KKK cretins marches up and down a town square. I fear that we’ll never be rid of such people, and in normal times our political leaders are so far removed from hateful movements that no reasonable person could believe they had the slightest sympathy for that kind of vicious bigotry. But today was different, the alt-right movement is different, and this president is different. Today, a person died. A car rammed into a crowd of left-wing protesters, sending bodies flying across the street. I won’t embed the footage, but it looks horrible, and it’s hard to escape the conclusion that it was intentional. The car rammed the crowd at speed, backed up, and sped away. This horrific incident capped a day of street brawls after hundreds of alt-right activists, neo-Confederates, and outright Nazis marched together to express and defend their “blood and soil” white nationalism. It was a disgusting and reprehensible display. It would be much easier to write off this small band of racists if they weren’t also part of a larger alt-right movement that was responsible for an unprecedented wave of online threats, intimidation, and harassment throughout the 2016 campaign season. Journalists, writers (including me and my family), and ordinary citizens were targeted with obscene and threatening images, racist messages, “doxing,” and sometimes promises of physical violence — all for the sin of criticizing Trump.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450433/alt-rights-chickens-come-home-roost
 

92tide

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Woman on CNN right now is wearing a tee shirt that says. "If you are not outraged you are not paying attention"

Seriously?

Passion is a good thing but too many angry people.

They should channel their anger into something more productive than politics.

Like gardening....or walking on a beach......riding a bike.....life is too short to create friction.
funny, i wasn't hearing angst about too many angry people when trump was running for pres whipping up this frenzy.

we have now been freed from the iron chains of political correctness. greatness should start flowing any day now.
 

Bazza

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whipping up this frenzy.
People should channel their "frenzy" into something more productive.

That's just my opinion.

You won't see me going to some demonstration.

Today I will be gardening, trying to finish a work proposal, and putting a carb back on my motorcycle that I rebuilt last night. I hope it still runs! :)
 

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