Scott Frost is the 2nd biggest crybaby and hypocrite in college football

CullmanTide

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If Stallings had lasted a few more years, I agree that the Dubosian problems would never have happened. But I’m not sure we would have won any more championships. I do think the game had passed him by, and while we would have been a tough physical opponent, I’m not sure we could have scored enough to win. We’d perpetually have been 9-3 / 8-4 with multiple woulda-coulda-shouldas.

While the OL downfield was still 1 yard, the pass interference rules (and more importantly, the way they’re enforced on the field) were changing and evolving away from Stallings-style smash mouth. I’m not sure we could have recruited QBs or WRs, and maybe not OL. Which would have led to a shortage in talent, and the self-perpetuating spiral begins.

To me, the difference between a really good coach (which Stallings was) and a great coach (Bryant and Saban) is the ability to evolve. Bryant did and Saban has. I don’t think Stallings was capable of that. Kind of like Les Miles.

It would have been interesting to see who would have replaced Stallings in, say, 2000. We probably wouldn’t have had the second round of NCAA problems. Would Dubose have received the fanbase’s support the way he did in 1996? I know Stallings thought he wasn’t ready in 1996, and was deafening in his silence after the fact.

Would 4 more years of seasoning have changed Stallings’ perception? Would it have changed Dubose? I kind of think not — bottom line is that his highest and best use was as a DL coach. He just wasn’t that smart, on a number of fronts. Simply didn’t have either the broader perspective or higher-level thought processes.

So if not Dubose, who would have replaced Stallings In 2000? Guess we’ll never know, but it’s fun to speculate during the offseason.
The road we took led us to where we are today. After the last 14 years, I wouldn't go back and change a thing except maybe fire Franphoney instead of letting him quit.
 

81usaf92

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Now that Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois and Wisconsin are

Now I would choose Lincoln over half those but I am not a teenage boy.
Never have been to NW, Champlain, or Purdue (even though I have been to Chicago so Evanston isn’t that far),but I can tell you for a fact that Lincoln is a complete dump and Madison, Minneapolis, and Iowa City are far far far superior cities. Really Omaha is Nebraska’s only good city.

Athlon
Cincy

Wisconsin may have one of best college towns in the country. Going to Lincoln is basically going to Tallahassee with a market area. It’s very blah.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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I remember when Nebraska was a fixture each year in the title chase. That was when the blue bloods ruled the ONE televised game each week. Now that Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois and Wisconsin are all on TV just as often as Nebraska -- tell me why 4 and 5 stars would choose Lincoln?

Now I would choose Lincoln over half those but I am not a teenage boy.
I don't disagree with your basic point, but I'd add the following to it.

Go look at MOST of the big names at Nebraska, and what do they have in common? A large portion of them are from places way far away from the state of Nebraska. Mike Rozier was from Camden, NJ, which is literally right across the river from Philadelphia. Mike Rozier in this day and age is not discovered accidentally on a game film, he is well-known and goes to Penn State or somewhere closer to home. Tommie Frazier doesn't leave Bradenton, Florida for Nowheresville when NOWADAYS he can play on TV for a school like UCF (which in recent years has been a bigger name than Nebraska as much as their die-hards don't want to admit it). Turner Gill in this day and age doesn't leave Fort Worth for Lincoln, he winds up either playing running back at TCU or maybe developing enough passing to go to A/M or somewhere else. Lawrence Phillips doesn't leave sunny California (or his prior home in Arkansas) and go to Nebraska.

Bear in mind, I've just listed most of the truly great skill position players from the Big Red glory years. A guy like Johnny Rodgers would't stay home, either. Remember - we now live in a world where players from Eugene, Oregon wind up playing in the SEC (which never would have happened back in the 60s and 70s or really even the 80s).

And let me add something else here, it isn't ONLY Nebraska, either. They're the most prominent name, but if you go back to Colorado's glory years in the late 80s and early 90s, they had a similar situation to Nebraska except it concerned one particular state, California.

These guys were all starters on the 1990 national champions:

Darian Hagan - Lynwood, CA
Eric Bienemy - La Puente, CA
George Hemingway - Colton, CA
Mike Pritchard - Las Vegas (which borders CA and is how they found him)
Rico Smith - Compton, CA
Mark Vander Poel - Upwood, CA
Deion Figures - Bellflower, CA
Chad Brown - Altadena, CA
Tim James - San Dimas, CA

And the previous year one of their stars, Oklan Salava'a was from Oceanside, CA as was the late Sal Aunese, who only lost his QB job to Hagan because he was dying.

Now.....does anyone think Colorado will ever again be able to assemble that kind of football team with that many kids from that far across the country? Keep in mind they had three other starters from Texas and two who were military brats. That's 14 starters from out of state plus backup QB Charles S. Johnson coming from Detroit (and Coach McCartney was originally from...Michigan).


What kid NOWADAYS from sunny California is going to Boulder to play four years in a ski resort town where he can't afford to go skiing (and doesn't know) - when he can have his pick of pretty much any school that gets his name. Wouldn't you say, "Well, it does get a tad cold in Ohio in the winter, but it's not the mountains and they're a much safer bet to win than CU is?"


I don't include this to bash Colorado so much as to show Nebraska isn't the only school with problems like this. Of course, the difference is that Colorado as a state has a BUNCH MORE to offer than a football team that was once legendary.
 
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81usaf92

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I don't disagree with your basic point, but I'd add the following to it.

Go look at MOST of the big names at Nebraska, and what do they have in common? A large portion of them are from places way far away from the state of Nebraska. Mike Rozier was from Camden, NJ, which is literally right across the river from Philadelphia. Mike Rozier in this day and age is not discovered accidentally on a game film, he is well-known and goes to Penn State or somewhere closer to home. Tommie Frazier doesn't leave Bradenton, Florida for Nowheresville when NOWADAYS he can play on TV for a school like UCF (which in recent years has been a bigger name than Nebraska as much as their die-hards don't want to admit it). Turner Gill in this day and age doesn't leave Fort Worth for Lincoln, he winds up either playing running back at TCU or maybe developing enough passing to go to A/M or somewhere else. Lawrence Phillips doesn't leave sunny California (or his prior home in Arkansas) and go to Nebraska.

Bear in mind, I've just listed most of the truly great skill position players from the Big Red glory years. A guy like Johnny Rodgers would't stay home, either. Remember - we now live in a world where players from Eugene, Oregon wind up playing in the SEC (which never would have happened back in the 60s and 70s or really even the 80s).

And let me add something else here, it isn't ONLY Nebraska, either. They're the most prominent name, but if you go back to Colorado's glory years in the late 80s and early 90s, they had a similar situation to Nebraska except it concerned one particular state, California.

These guys were all starters on the 1990 national champions:

Darian Hagan - Lynwood, CA
Eric Bienemy - La Puente, CA
George Hemingway - Colton, CA
Mike Pritchard - Las Vegas (which borders CA and is how they found him)
Rico Smith - Compton, CA
Mark Vander Poel - Upwood, CA
Deion Figures - Bellflower, CA
Chad Brown - Altadena, CA
Tim James - San Dimas, CA

And the previous year one of their stars, Oklan Salava'a was from Oceanside, CA as was the late Sal Aunese, who only lost his QB job to Hagan because he was dying.

Now.....does anyone think Colorado will ever again be able to assemble that kind of football team with that many kids from that far across the country? Keep in mind they had three other starters from Texas and two who were military brats. That's 14 starters from out of state plus backup QB Charles S. Johnson coming from Detroit (and Coach McCartney was originally from...Michigan).


What kid NOWADAYS from sunny California is going to Boulder to play four years in a ski resort town where he can't afford to go skiing (and doesn't know) - when he can have his pick of pretty much any school that gets his name. Wouldn't you say, "Well, it does get a tad cold in Ohio in the winter, but it's not the mountains and they're a much safer bet to win than CU is?"


I don't include this to bash Colorado so much as to show Nebraska isn't the only school with problems like this. Of course, the difference is that Colorado as a state has a BUNCH MORE to offer than a football team that was once legendary.
Unless you love Omaha, then you ain’t going to Nebraska is you are top tier out of state recruit. Lincoln offers nothing in terms of a place to live above affordability. Hell I would say Birmingham has more benefits. Once Nebraska bolted to the Big 10 they lost their major draw… Texas and Oklahoma kids that couldn’t make it in their state’s university that didn’t want to play for the other.

Nebraska has less advantages than Kentucky does at this point and nothing going to change in that aspect unless the P5 makes rules to change it.
 

TideEngineer08

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Tennessee is in the same boat as Nebraska. Not enough in state talent, and their neighbors who do have talent are well run organizations who have their acts together. Tennessee has better prospects because the talent is nearby, but they need all these other programs to self-destruct: Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Florida, North Carolina.

Tennessee goes into the Atlanta suburbs to recruit a top guy. Why, right now, does he choose UT over Georgia, Alabama, or Clemson?

You just have to hate it for them.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Tennessee is in the same boat as Nebraska. Not enough in state talent, and their neighbors who do have talent are well run organizations who have their acts together. Tennessee has better prospects because the talent is nearby, but they need all these other programs to self-destruct: Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Florida, North Carolina.

Tennessee goes into the Atlanta suburbs to recruit a top guy. Why, right now, does he choose UT over Georgia, Alabama, or Clemson?

You just have to hate it for them.
Looks up when Tennessee was last good....

Alabama - probation
Ole Miss - probation
Georgia - had Ray Goff and then Jim Donnan and went 0-8 against the Vols
LSU - the Curley Hallman/Gerry DiNardo period
Kentucky - probation
Clemson - not quite as big as they got
S Carolina - pre-Holtz/Spurrier

Only competition? Spurrier and Florida

Hmm.......
 

TideEngineer08

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Looks up when Tennessee was last good....

Alabama - probation
Ole Miss - probation
Georgia - had Ray Goff and then Jim Donnan and went 0-8 against the Vols
LSU - the Curley Hallman/Gerry DiNardo period
Kentucky - probation
Clemson - not quite as big as they got
S Carolina - pre-Holtz/Spurrier

Only competition? Spurrier and Florida

Hmm.......
 

81usaf92

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Looks up when Tennessee was last good....

Alabama - probation
Ole Miss - probation
Georgia - had Ray Goff and then Jim Donnan and went 0-8 against the Vols
LSU - the Curley Hallman/Gerry DiNardo period
Kentucky - probation
Clemson - not quite as big as they got
S Carolina - pre-Holtz/Spurrier

Only competition? Spurrier and Florida

Hmm.......
No you have it all wrong. All these Blue bloods need are a new age coach or a good defensive coach from Alabama. Nashville is the new Atlanta in recruiting and Nebraska is a better recruiting state than Wisconsin and Iowa. I dont care what anyone says, or what history and well researched information says. I know that blue bloods only need a coach to turn it around because of the 70's and 90's proves it.
 

selmaborntidefan

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No you have it all wrong. All these Blue bloods need are a new age coach or a good defensive coach from Alabama. Nashville is the new Atlanta in recruiting and Nebraska is a better recruiting state than Wisconsin and Iowa. I dont care what anyone says, or what history and well researched information says. I know that blue bloods only need a coach to turn it around because of the 70's and 90's proves it.
Well, I have zero doubt that Saban could win at both Tennessee and Nebraska, so there IS something to that sentiment.

No, he couldn't win to the degree he has here, but I have zero doubt he would be tough to beat if he was coaching Nebraska or the Vols.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Tennessee is in the same boat as Nebraska. Not enough in state talent, and their neighbors who do have talent are well run organizations who have their acts together. Tennessee has better prospects because the talent is nearby, but they need all these other programs to self-destruct: Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Florida, North Carolina.

Tennessee goes into the Atlanta suburbs to recruit a top guy. Why, right now, does he choose UT over Georgia, Alabama, or Clemson?

You just have to hate it for them.
Yeah, and the Nebraska situation was largely because they were pilfering all the decent talent from the Canadian border all the way over to Idaho, back in a triangle to Kansas and eastward to parts of Missouri. And if you'll go back and look, Wisconsin wasn't good, and North Dakota State was in a smaller conference.

Let me put it this way: do you honestly think that Brook Berringer from Goodland, Kansas ever sets foot on the Nebraska campus now (othern than as an opposing QB) that Bill Snyder has at least turned K-State from perennial doormat into "program where Colin Klein can be a Heisman candidate"?

What's funny is this: because Nebraska had some powerhouse teams in 1970-71 and some more in 1994-97, the historical revisionism NOW miraculously translates them into a dynasty that won a bunch of big games all those years. But nothing could be further from the truth. Take that tail end of dominance (1993-97) away from him and Tom Osborne's average record every year was 9-2 or 10-2, which I'll admit is still VERY GOOD, but he had six wins in his pocket before opening day as awful as the Big Eight was. So in the other five contests, he'd usually beat three nothings, lose to Oklahoma, go about .500 against the good teams he played, and then lose the bowl game almost every time. The "dynasty at the beginning, dynasty at the end" tricks people into seeing Nebraska in the same light as the Saban-era Alabama teams or even the Bryant-era, which is absurd.

Let me put it like this: Nebraska was a nothing in football until Bob Devaney showed up. Bob and Tom built a team that could at least compete nationally and win a lot of games. Tom left, and Nebraska other than a burp left over from his final recruitiing classes has been about the level of South Carolina ever since.
 
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TideEngineer08

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Yeah, and the Nebraska situation was largely because they were pilfering all the decent talent from the Canadian border all the way over to Idaho, back in a triangle to Kansas and eastward to parts of Missouri. And if you'll go back and look, Wisconsin wasn't good, and North Dakota State was in a smaller conference.

Let me put it this way: do you honestly think that Brook Berringer from Goodland, Kansas ever sets foot on the Nebraska campus now (othern than as an opposing QB) that Bill Snyder has at least turned K-State from perennial doormat into "program where Colin Klein can be a Heisman candidate"?

What's funny is this: because Nebraska had some powerhouse teams in 1970-71 and some more in 1994-97, the historical revisionism NOW miraculously translates them into a dynasty that won a bunch of big games all those years. But nothing could be further from the truth. Take that tail end of dominance (1993-97) away from him and Tom Osborne's average record every year was 9-2 or 10-2, which I'll admit is still VERY GOOD, but he had six wins in his pocket before opening day as awful as the Big Eight was. So in the other five contests, he'd usually beat three nothings, lose to Oklahoma, go about .500 against the good teams he played, and then lose the bowl game almost every time. The "dynasty at the beginning, dynasty at the end" tricks people into seeing Nebraska in the same light as the Saban-era Alabama teams or even the Bryant-era, which is absurd.

Let me put it like this: Nebraska was a nothing in football until Bob Devaney showed up. Bob and Tom built a team that could at least compete nationally and win a lot of games. Tom left, and Nebraska other than a burp left over from his final recruitiing classes has been about the level of South Carolina ever since.
Yeah there are a half a dozen other places Tommie Frazier goes if he is a recruit today. In fact, I'm betting Nebraska never even visits him. (And I'm aware the offenses have changed so drastically that Frazier might not even play QB in today's game).

Nebraska is in dire straights and they are clueless about it. All the money and facilities in the world isn't going to change geography and population density.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Yeah there are a half a dozen other places Tommie Frazier goes if he is a recruit today. In fact, I'm betting Nebraska never even visits him. (And I'm aware the offenses have changed so drastically that Frazier might not even play QB in today's game).

Nebraska is in dire straights and they are clueless about it. All the money and facilities in the world isn't going to change geography and population density.
Yeah, my Oregon bud was telling about when he first met his wife in 1991. Sometime after that, he was explaining college football to her, and showed her a poll. She took one look at it and said, "What are all these teams from the Southern United States doing up here in the top ten?" He said, "Because they take it serious down there, it's a way of life for them."

And this is why - I think - that other than the occasional blip of say an Ohio State or maybe a USC, the Southern teams will pretty much always win the championship simply because of the weather. We can play outdoors year round here. (For all that "afraid to play up north in November" pile of crap, those schools all practice indoors when the weather is bad, too).

That's why when his family got all on board with Oregon when they got good, he told them, "They don't have a prayer against Auburn. You haven't watched enough football if you think Oregon is going to win." He told them to make sure they were happy with Oregon going 10-2 and winning the Rose Bowl because their whole hope was to get into the title game against a non-Southern team. Of course, they did that - and still lost, and he won't let them forget it.

I'm trying to think of ONE REASON to go to Nebraska......I visited once and got pulled over by a cop during my three hours in the state.....that's really all. I visited so I could say I've visited all the states. (I got pulled over doing 70 in a 40 near Mitchell, Nebraska on a back road where nobody else was).
 
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81usaf92

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Well, I have zero doubt that Saban could win at both Tennessee and Nebraska, so there IS something to that sentiment.

No, he couldn't win to the degree he has here, but I have zero doubt he would be tough to beat if he was coaching Nebraska or the Vols.
It really depends on what part of Saban’s career you are talking about. For Nebraska to get back to winning national championships it would require them to effectively become Notre Dame. I don’t think that is a we are going to the ship in a few years kinda thing.
 
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81usaf92

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Yeah, my Oregon bud was telling about when he first met his wife in 1991. Sometime after that, he was explaining college football to her, and showed her a poll. She took one look at it and said, "What are all these teams from the Southern United States doing up here in the top ten?" He said, "Because they take it serious down there, it's a way of life for them."

And this is why - I think - that other than the occasional blip of say an Ohio State or maybe a USC, the Southern teams will pretty much always win the championship simply because of the weather. We can play outdoors year round here. (For all that "afraid to play up north in November" pile of crap, those schools all practice indoors when the weather is bad, too).

That's why when his family got all on board with Oregon when they got good, he told them, "They don't have a prayer against Auburn. You haven't watched enough football if you think Oregon is going to win." He told them to make sure they were happy with Oregon going 10-2 and winning the Rose Bowl because their whole hope was to get into the title game against a non-Southern team. Of course, they did that - and still lost, and he won't let them forget it.

I'm trying to think of ONE REASON to go to Nebraska......I visited once and got pulled over by a cop during my three hours in the state.....that's really all. I visited so I could say I've visited all the states. (I got pulled over doing 70 in a 40 near Mitchell, Nebraska on a back road where nobody else was).
Nebraska is basically Omaha and the Huskers. Then it’s just hours of corn fields and prairies. There really isn’t an upside to it.
 

TideEngineer08

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Could Nick Saban dominate at Nebraska? I'm not so sure.

There is a reason he left Michigan State for LSU, and it's not just money. It was almost entirely because he saw the recruiting ceiling in East Lansing was much, much lower than it was in Baton Rouge.

It's kind of like asking could Richard Petty win a Daytona 500 driving factory 1971 Ford F100 pickup?