SCOTUS and School Prayer

NationalTitles18

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But he was paid to be a coach and as long as those kids were still there under his care he was not as free as other employees of the system, so that "reasoning" is not true to the circumstances and is suspect at best.

There is no problem with the man praying, but how he goes about it could be a problem while on the job for government if how he goes about it is coercive.

I don't know the details well enough to judge the particulars of this case for myself, but the direction of the court is concerning.
 

MobtownK

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I don't know much about this case either... I have NO problem with prayer before games, or even in school. Coerced prayer would be a different case.

People shouldn't be discriminated against because they pray or don't pray.

The problem would be if he forced the players to...

On it's face, I have no issue with this - as long as the same curtesy is allowed to people of other faiths, or none at all.

One shouldn't be offended because someone chooses to pray. Same as no one should be offended when someone doesn't or declines.
 

crimsonaudio

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I want to take a leave of absence from work, sign up to be a substitute teacher and lead each class in a Satanic prayer. Let's test this thing and see how this goes
As long as the students aren't coerced - they can participate or not - I don't see an issue. I think it should happen somewhere where the kids aren't forced to be there (such as after a ball game) rather than in a classroom.

I certainly don't see an issue with a coach praying after a ball game. Assuming it's voluntary as to whether or not players join in (it was when I played), no big deal.
 

Jon

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As long as the students aren't coerced - they can participate or not - I don't see an issue.

I certainly don't see an issue with a coach praying after a ball game. Assuming it's voluntary as to whether or not players join in (it was when I played), no big deal.
the problem is that it is often as voluntary as summer workouts for football players.
sure, you can skip but you can also get passed on the depth chart.
 

Go Bama

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One of my best childhood friends is Jewish. He had to tolerate prayer at the beginning of each school day, and then a 30 minute "chapel" from 2:30-3:00 every day for the first through eighth grades. He's a successful attorney in Nashville now. He has told me he moved to Nashville to be better able to pursue his religion.

I never realized as a child how hard the school prayer was for him.
 

crimsonaudio

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the problem is that it is often as voluntary as summer workouts for football players.
sure, you can skip but you can also get passed on the depth chart.
That rabbit hole exists everywhere, though. Unless there's proof that coercion is happening, assuming it is assumes too much.

I was a practicing Christian as a player but never prayed with the coaches / players who did so after the game. It wasn't my thing. I never once felt pressured to participate and it did not impact playing time at all. I know that's one experience, but it would be easy enough for a player to file a complaint if he felt there was discrimination based on this.
 

crimsonaudio

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One of my best childhood friends is Jewish. He had to tolerate prayer at the beginning of each school day, and then a 30 minute "chapel" from 2:30-3:00 every day for the first through eighth grades. He's a successful attorney in Nashville now. He has told me he moved to Nashville to be better able to pursue his religion.

I never realized as a child how hard the school prayer was for him.
One of my childhood schools said the "Lord's prayer" every day just after the Pledge of Allegiance. It didn't bother me at the time (I was seven or eight) but in retrospect, that was not a good practice (and likely illegal). No telling how many kids felt uncomfortable because of that - and it was led by the teacher in the classroom!
 

Go Bama

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One of my childhood schools said the "Lord's prayer" every day just after the Pledge of Allegiance. It didn't bother me at the time (I was seven or eight) but in retrospect, that was not a good practice (and likely illegal). No telling how many kids felt uncomfortable because of that - and it was led by the teacher in the classroom!
We said the Pledge and the Lord's Prayer every single day.
 
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AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
the problem is that it is often as voluntary as summer workouts for football players.
sure, you can skip but you can also get passed on the depth chart.
This. By the very nature of his position as a coach, it is coercive.

Sotomayor's dissent is good. The gulf between what this guy was actually doing and how the court's conservatives characterized it is enormous. Sotomayor spelled it out.
 

92tide

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This. By the very nature of his position as a coach, it is coercive.

Sotomayor's dissent is good. The gulf between what this guy was actually doing and how the court's conservatives characterized it is enormous. Sotomayor spelled it out.
i’m still amazed at the number of folks who continue to give duplicitous zealots the assumption that they are acting in good faith
 

NationalTitles18

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So if I go to the DMV for a driving test and the tester begins praying before we drive off would I be pressured to join in the prayer for fear of failing?

If I’ve applied for social security and a shouting and dancing prayer meeting breaks out might I feel coerced to join so I get my benefits?

If I go to court and the judge prays openly will I feel coerced to do the same?

There should be no assumption that failing to join in would not bring some harm to me.

Government employees, including those who work at schools, should stay professional at all times while on duty and stay in their lane.

Personal prayer, even said aloud in private, is not the issue.

But making a show and imposing on others is. Even a hint of favor or disfavor is an issue.
 

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