Select Committee on January 6 Insurrection report...

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TexasBama

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I got to listen to a bit on NPR today. This was mentioned, and this witness has not yet been heard from in the hearings

 

NationalTitles18

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It's becoming more and more clear in the evidence presented that Trump worked directly and/or indirectly with the extremist groups in planning the attack on the Capitol.

It's also becoming more and more clear in the evidence presented that armed violence - and not just with poles and sticks and spears and bear spray, but also with firearms and explosives - was planned for that day - at the very least as a potential contingency plan.

My suspicion is that it hinged on taking down the Congress and the VP and that if the mob had succeeded in that effort (taking and likely killing Pelosi, Pence, and others) then Trump would have claimed legitimacy in declaring Martial Law and "deputizing" militias like the oath breakers and others and in doing so would have declared the election null and void. In his mind this would have been the end of it and he could begin his family's dynasty. In reality, there would have been a bloody counter-insurgency and perhaps a full on civil war. (Trump is not the most sane person to occupy the WH, or even the most sane person at an oath breaker fundraising dinner).

He wanted to go there to give the crowd legitimacy and direction and inspiration. He wanted to walk in, triumphant. He thought he could declare himself king, basically.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I got to listen to a bit on NPR today. This was mentioned, and this witness has not yet been heard from in the hearings

That's a puzzling first sentence. There was nothing "abrupt" about her warning. She was essentially repeating what she had said at the last hearing...
 

NationalTitles18

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That's a puzzling first sentence. There was nothing "abrupt" about her warning. She was essentially repeating what she had said at the last hearing...
I understood it to be a new incident involving the former president and all-time idiot himself, but you are right that tampering is not a new subject to the committee.
 

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I understood it to be a new incident involving the former president and all-time idiot himself, but you are right that tampering is not a new subject to the committee.

Yeah, when I first heard it, I was thinking it was early on. But the stories I'm reading seem to be saying Trump called a witness AFTER this set of hearings began. I'm like, "He finally got so desperate that he himself is committing the obstruction rather than getting someone else to do it for him."
 

NationalTitles18

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Yeah, when I first heard it, I was thinking it was early on. But the stories I'm reading seem to be saying Trump called a witness AFTER this set of hearings began. I'm like, "He finally got so desperate that he himself is committing the obstruction rather than getting someone else to do it for him."
Maybe those around him finally caught on that doing his bidding insulates him a little but not themselves?
 

NationalTitles18

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It's becoming more and more clear in the evidence presented that Trump worked directly and/or indirectly with the extremist groups in planning the attack on the Capitol.

It's also becoming more and more clear in the evidence presented that armed violence - and not just with poles and sticks and spears and bear spray, but also with firearms and explosives - was planned for that day - at the very least as a potential contingency plan.

My suspicion is that it hinged on taking down the Congress and the VP and that if the mob had succeeded in that effort (taking and likely killing Pelosi, Pence, and others) then Trump would have claimed legitimacy in declaring Martial Law and "deputizing" militias like the oath breakers and others and in doing so would have declared the election null and void. In his mind this would have been the end of it and he could begin his family's dynasty. In reality, there would have been a bloody counter-insurgency and perhaps a full on civil war. (Trump is not the most sane person to occupy the WH, or even the most sane person at an oath breaker fundraising dinner).

He wanted to go there to give the crowd legitimacy and direction and inspiration. He wanted to walk in, triumphant. He thought he could declare himself king, basically.
You may be right. He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. However, he was glued to the TV and the reporting, IIRC, was that the VP and house and senate members were made safe. Of course, when he really wanted to go, that had not happened yet...
 
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4Q Basket Case

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It's becoming more and more clear in the evidence presented that Trump worked directly and/or indirectly with the extremist groups in planning the attack on the Capitol.

It's also becoming more and more clear in the evidence presented that armed violence - and not just with poles and sticks and spears and bear spray, but also with firearms and explosives - was planned for that day - at the very least as a potential contingency plan.

My suspicion is that it hinged on taking down the Congress and the VP and that if the mob had succeeded in that effort (taking and likely killing Pelosi, Pence, and others) then Trump would have claimed legitimacy in declaring Martial Law and "deputizing" militias like the oath breakers and others and in doing so would have declared the election null and void. In his mind this would have been the end of it and he could begin his family's dynasty. In reality, there would have been a bloody counter-insurgency and perhaps a full on civil war. (Trump is not the most sane person to occupy the WH, or even the most sane person at an oath breaker fundraising dinner).

He wanted to go there to give the crowd legitimacy and direction and inspiration. He wanted to walk in, triumphant. He thought he could declare himself king, basically.
Before the hearings, I would have said you’d overstated a good case. Now, I think you might have hit the nail on the had.

Donald Trump was clearly out of control. He knew the insurrectionisits were armed and intended to do physical harm to elected leaders of both parties.

He worked with aides to put forward claims he knew were false. He knew he had lost the election, and spiraled into increasingly deranged attempts to overturn it….up to and including overturning the Constitution.

He was definitely temporarily insane, and you could make a case that the insanity wasn’t (and isn’t) temporary.

And after he knew the legal walls we closing in, he attempted to intimidate witnesses. Maybe he did it himself, maybe he had others do it for him.

We all know this, and it feels good to get morally outraged. But that doesn’t do much good for the country, only for our self-perceptions.

The bigger question is, “What will the DOJ (reporting up through to the President) do about it?” Unless and until there are tangible and material consequences, they serve only as fodder for Trump’s delusions.

And I have a new addition to my list of heroes in Rep. Cheney.

She‘s probably going to get primaried. She’s far from stupid, and knows that the odds are against her. Which is why she’s fast-tracking the investigation as much as she possibly can. Gutsy lady, with principles that Lech Walesa (another of my heroes) would admire.
 
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NationalTitles18

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You may be right. He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. However, he was glued to the TV and the reporting, IIRC, was that the VP and house and senate members were made safe. Of course, when he really wanted to go, that had not happened yet...
Exactly. He only called off his attack dogs once it was clear that Congress and his own VP would survive the attack and that his people could not reach them in hiding AND the guard had been mobilized to clear the building. That was the turning point, IMHO. I think he knew that if his people were seen on national television fighting the national guard that he had lost anyway - however that went.

ETA: the guard was mobilized shortly after 3:30 Eastern time. This gave him time for the several reported efforts at a video and to get it uploaded around 4:17. He even had a little time to cave in and regather himself and put on some makeup for the camera.
 
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Jon

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And I have a new addition to my list of heroes in Rep. Cheney.

She‘s probably going to get primaried. She’s far from stupid, and knows that the odds are against her. Which is why she’s fast-tracking the investigation as much as she possibly can. Gutsy lady, with principles that Lech Walesa (another of my heroes) would admire.
never forget that Liz Cheney happily supported her gay sister until it was no longer a politically tenable position to hold. As soon as that happened she happily kicked her sister to the curb for her political career.

Is she right on the issue of Trump absolutely. Is she a hero? Not by my definition, a hero doesn't abandon family to pursue their own political ends
 
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