Supreme Court Denies AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

Displaced Bama Fan

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

The main reason I support allowing gay marriage is a strong belief in freedom of religion, and a basic recognition that what consenting adults do is their own business.

My secondary reason is that I'd like to see the divorce laws fixed to be more equitable.
If you're going to force business owners to sell products & services for events they philosophically oppose then Muhammad at the Winn-Dixie better scan my pork chops, pork ribs, sausage, bacon, ham, chitlins and pork rinds. If Muslims at grocery stores are allowed to "excuse themselves" from touching things they deem unclean, then business owners should have the same option.
 

cbi1972

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

Agreed, but again, I don't think gay marriage and divorce laws have anything in common, nor does one have any effect on the other.
The idea of gay divorce throws our assumptions and stereotypes about divorce into question.

Historically, women have been at a disadvantage economically relative to men, and are generally seen as superior caregivers, which is why the typical divorce/custody settlement ends up with the woman with the kids, and the man paying and paying and paying.

This inequity, and the uphill battle that a divorcing man faces, is the focus of many men's rights champions, and any attention that gay marriage (and by extension, gay divorce) brings to this inequity is what mike is appreciating here. If and when divorce courts start paying more attention to reality and less on stereotypical assumptions, then divorce will be more equitable.
 

TideMom2Boys

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

So let me ask this. When all these divorces start happening like we all know they eventually will, who is going to have to pay alimony? Who is going to keep the children when children are involved? Just curious.

They will probably determine which person is the breadwinner. They will be responsible for the money. And then whichever parent is the most responsible should get custody. Not really a hard decision. But we already see the judges getting it wrong in marriages with a male and female.
 

Catfish

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

Yeah, inevitable. Not happy about it, but it is what it is. And yes, I got no love for Roy Moore. He should be removed from office.
He will probably will be. But, he'll be fine with his five-figure speaking fees and "love offerings" which, if done right, can be TAX DEDUCTIBLE!!! Holla!

 

Bamabuzzard

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

The idea of gay divorce throws our assumptions and stereotypes about divorce into question.

Historically, women have been at a disadvantage economically relative to men, and are generally seen as superior caregivers, which is why the typical divorce/custody settlement ends up with the woman with the kids, and the man paying and paying and paying.

This inequity, and the uphill battle that a divorcing man faces, is the focus of many men's rights champions, and any attention that gay marriage (and by extension, gay divorce) brings to this inequity is what mike is appreciating here. If and when divorce courts start paying more attention to reality and less on stereotypical assumptions, then divorce will be more equitable.
Yup, about five years ago one of my good friend's wife left him. "Didn't want to be married anymore" after 15 years of marriage and two kids. Caught him totally off guard. No signs, no clues, hadn't been arguing etc. Just "BAM!", gone. Long story short he got stuck with bills, credit cards, department store cards that she had opened in his name right before she left him AND child support. The state of Louisiana came down hard on him to the point where one paycheck/month was less than $75 after garnishments. He ended up having to file Chapter 7 and is living in a 450 sq ft one bedroom apartment still trying to climb out of the financial hole.
 

bamacon

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

I hope he gets yanked from office. Federal judges don't generally take kindly to contempt of court, assuming it's even applicable here.
And a lot of people do not like the SC acting like the legislative branch and totally ignoring legitimate state laws all the while completely ignoring the Constitution. Marriage isn't mentioned in the Con. therefore it is a STATE issue. People clearly don't like that so they need to pass a federal statute through congress via AMENDMENT. The problem is they can't so they do this. Personally I don't care my sole problem is the HOW they are changing the law.
 

Jon

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

And a lot of people do not like the SC acting like the legislative branch and totally ignoring legitimate state laws all the while completely ignoring the Constitution. Marriage isn't mentioned in the Con. therefore it is a STATE issue. People clearly don't like that so they need to pass a federal statute through congress via AMENDMENT. The problem is they can't so they do this. Personally I don't care my sole problem is the HOW they are changing the law.
So we shouldn't allow inter racial marriage either? Based on your logic, it is a State issue as well. Alabama clearly outlawed it, was that the right thing to do? Was the supreme court being "activists" then too?
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

So we shouldn't allow inter racial marriage either? Based on your logic, it is a State issue as well. Alabama clearly outlawed it, was that the right thing to do? Was the supreme court being "activists" then too?
So by your argument, is marriage, much less interracial marriage protected under the Constitution?
 

bamacon

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

So we shouldn't allow inter racial marriage either? Based on your logic, it is a State issue as well. Alabama clearly outlawed it, was that the right thing to do? Was the supreme court being "activists" then too?
I know that is always the argument brought up by activist for gay marriage. That clearly violated the 14th amendment. They were denied protection due to race. Civil rights pass federal law and Amendments to fix the founding flaws of inequality. That's the genius of the document. Marriage has always involved both male and female (sometimes plural) throughout history. It has been that way here for over 200 years. I'm just saying change it the right way. I can't help it that the gay marriage crowd can't pass the law Constitutionally that gives them equality. I thought Federal Civil Unions would be more than enough but it wasn't. They rejected it when it could have passed. I know this won't be enough. Enough will be when they can walk into any church and force them to perform a marriage ceremony and sue them if they won't. Look what they are doing to these businesses. I'm not saying all gay couples are this militant and unyielding but the overall lobby is. Mark my word, this ain't over and won't be even after the SC rules gay marriage legal.
 

NationalTitles18

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

And a lot of people do not like the SC acting like the legislative branch and totally ignoring legitimate state laws all the while completely ignoring the Constitution. Marriage isn't mentioned in the Con. therefore it is a STATE issue. People clearly don't like that so they need to pass a federal statute through congress via AMENDMENT. The problem is they can't so they do this. Personally I don't care my sole problem is the HOW they are changing the law.
If it is a natural right and is found to be protected then states cannot do so constitutionally. Conservatives are always like, "The constitution limits government to enumerated powers...and our rights are many and not all are mentioned in the constitution", right up until they agree/disagree with something. But then we've had many arguments about these things here. And there are a multitude of legal theories about it.

The courts job, in part, is to rule on matters of fundamental rights. If the court, right or wrong, rules that someone possesses a fundamental right, then the state may regulate to one degree or another, but they may not completely prohibit that right, especially when it does not infringe on the rights of another.

Essentially, marriage has long been ruled a fundamental right as much as having and raising children has also. The court said Alabama's law violates that fundamental right and order Bentley to stop enforcement of the state law, which is superseded by the fundamental right. Federal courts have this authority and if it is an overreach then congress has done nothing to regulate in the matter and would likely end up in another Marbury v Madison, in which case we'd end right back up at:

It is emphatically the duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret the rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Court must decide on the operation of each.
If courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.
 

Crimson1967

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92tide

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

I know that is always the argument brought up by activist for gay marriage. That clearly violated the 14th amendment. They were denied protection due to race. Civil rights pass federal law and Amendments to fix the founding flaws of inequality. That's the genius of the document. Marriage has always involved both male and female (sometimes plural) throughout history. It has been that way here for over 200 years. I'm just saying change it the right way. I can't help it that the gay marriage crowd can't pass the law Constitutionally that gives them equality. I thought Federal Civil Unions would be more than enough but it wasn't. They rejected it when it could have passed. I know this won't be enough. Enough will be when they can walk into any church and force them to perform a marriage ceremony and sue them if they won't. Look what they are doing to these businesses. I'm not saying all gay couples are this militant and unyielding but the overall lobby is. Mark my word, this ain't over and won't be even after the SC rules gay marriage legal.
if you give those gays an inch, they just keep asking for more.
 

mikes12

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

From the linked article:



So has the sympathetic orderly been charged for the murder of Paul's partner?[/QUOTE]
I had to do a double take on that part as well.
 

Jon

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

I know that is always the argument brought up by activist for gay marriage. That clearly violated the 14th amendment. They were denied protection due to race. Civil rights pass federal law and Amendments to fix the founding flaws of inequality. That's the genius of the document. Marriage has always involved both male and female (sometimes plural) throughout history. It has been that way here for over 200 years. I'm just saying change it the right way. I can't help it that the gay marriage crowd can't pass the law Constitutionally that gives them equality. I thought Federal Civil Unions would be more than enough but it wasn't. They rejected it when it could have passed. I know this won't be enough. Enough will be when they can walk into any church and force them to perform a marriage ceremony and sue them if they won't. Look what they are doing to these businesses. I'm not saying all gay couples are this militant and unyielding but the overall lobby is. Mark my word, this ain't over and won't be even after the SC rules gay marriage legal.
lets not get sideways here. I'm not even going to address "where this ends up" its not the issue I asked. So I'll dig through your response and guess that you are saying that the 14th amendment should not apply to issues of sexuality but it should race. Is that your argument?

Just want to be clear.
 

NationalTitles18

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

I know that is always the argument brought up by activist for gay marriage. That clearly violated the 14th amendment. They were denied protection due to race. Civil rights pass federal law and Amendments to fix the founding flaws of inequality. That's the genius of the document. Marriage has always involved both male and female (sometimes plural) throughout history. It has been that way here for over 200 years. I'm just saying change it the right way. I can't help it that the gay marriage crowd can't pass the law Constitutionally that gives them equality. I thought Federal Civil Unions would be more than enough but it wasn't. They rejected it when it could have passed. I know this won't be enough. Enough will be when they can walk into any church and force them to perform a marriage ceremony and sue them if they won't. Look what they are doing to these businesses. I'm not saying all gay couples are this militant and unyielding but the overall lobby is. Mark my word, this ain't over and won't be even after the SC rules gay marriage legal.
They have no more (true) right to make you marry them or make them a cake or take their picture than you do to prevent them from taking a vow to each other. Hopefully this will eventually work out as it should.
 

bamacon

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

If it is a natural right and is found to be protected then states cannot do so constitutionally. Conservatives are always like, "The constitution limits government to enumerated powers...and our rights are many and not all are mentioned in the constitution", right up until they agree/disagree with something. But then we've had many arguments about these things here. And there are a multitude of legal theories about it.

The courts job, in part, is to rule on matters of fundamental rights. If the court, right or wrong, rules that someone possesses a fundamental right, then the state may regulate to one degree or another, but they may not completely prohibit that right, especially when it does not infringe on the rights of another.

Essentially, marriage has long been ruled a fundamental right as much as having and raising children has also. The court said Alabama's law violates that fundamental right and order Bentley to stop enforcement of the state law, which is superseded by the fundamental right. Federal courts have this authority and if it is an overreach then congress has done nothing to regulate in the matter and would likely end up in another Marbury v Madison, in which case we'd end right back up at:

It is emphatically the duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret the rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Court must decide on the operation of each.
If courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.
But that isn't what it does is it? It rewrote the Health Law illegally. It ignores the 10th Amd. It can say yeah or nay and that's it! That's the function it is supposed to have.
 

bamacon

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Re: Supreme Court Denie's AL Request for Stay Re: Gay Marriage

They have no more (true) right to make you marry them or make them a cake or take their picture than you do to prevent them from taking a vow to each other. Hopefully this will eventually work out as it should.
And I DON'T CARE if they do. I really am not trying to get into a fight over the issue. I'm very Libertarian on this and many issues. I have NO problem with states calling marriage whatever floats your boat, but I'm also NOT opposed to states voting to keep traditional marriage definitions. That is how our Constitutional system works. I certainly see the protection of legal rights if a couple is married in one state that allows SS mariage to one that doesn't. I just don't see why a Federal Civil Union couldn't solve those concerns because their rights legally, and as a family should be protected. Hope that helps. If not, not malice intended.
 

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