The Future of Alabama Basketball and Anthony Grant

[RTR91]

Cecil has said for awhile now Grant will get another season. As well respected as he is, I believe he knows that for a fact and isn't just voicing his opinion.

 

[Ldlane]

I think he will also because:

1. It still isn't as bad as the last few years of Gottfried's reign.

2. Up through 2011 we were still paying CMG and CMS.

3. Not sure how much we can pony up to pay someone that isn't working for us any more and get a big hire.

Cecil has said for awhile now Grant will get another season. As well respected as he is, I believe he knows that for a fact and isn't just voicing his opinion.

 

[RTR91]

I think he will also because:

1. It still isn't as bad as the last few years of Gottfried's reign.

2. Up through 2011 we were still paying CMG and CMS.

3. Not sure how much we can pony up to pay someone that isn't working for us any more and get a big hire.

I had not considered #2. Not sure about #3, though. His buyout decreases by a million after each season. Does $4 million sound better than $5 million so much that Battle uses it as the main reason to keep him?

 

[FThomas]

I think he will also because:

1. It still isn't as bad as the last few years of Gottfried's reign.

2. Up through 2011 we were still paying CMG and CMS.

3. Not sure how much we can pony up to pay someone that isn't working for us any more and get a big hire.

I agree with #2 and #3; that said Gottfriend's bad spell was really only about a year and a half; and that was following 5 straight tournament appearances. Right now we are 9-14 and 3-7; that is going to be worse than Gottfired's low point of 17-16 and 5-11. I belive we needed teh change, but sadly to date after 5 years, Coach Grant's accomplishments don't equal Coach Gottfried's first 5 years.

 

[Bama Reb]

Since this is turning into a CMG vs. CAG thread, I found this bit of information that I think is both relevant and telling.:

He spent 11 seasons as head coach at Alabama (1998-09), compiling a record of 210-131 with five NCAA Tournament and three NIT appearances. He led Alabama to three top 25 final rankings, including one top 10 ranking. He led the Tide to the SEC regular season championship in his fourth season, also the first of five straight trips to the NCAA Tournament.

For his efforts, Gottfried was named the 2002 SEC Coach of the Year. Gottfried's 2002-03 squad became the first in Alabama history to be ranked No. 1 in the AP poll, as the team held the ranking for two weeks. The program achieved another first during the 2003-04 season, as Alabama upset top-ranked and top-seeded Stanford in the second round of the NCAA Tournament and then defeated reigning national champion Syracuse to advance to the school's first Elite Eight appearance.

http://www.gopack.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/gottfried_mark00.html

 

[RTR91]

Wichita State and Creighton are the two obvious examples of teams improving more than Alabama. Decided to look at the schedules beginning with the 2010-2011 season. I left out the 2009-2010 season since most can agree a first year tends to be a "throw out" season.

Team	Season	Outcome	Opponent Record	2013-2014 Season Record
@ #22 Purdue	2010-2011	L 66-47	26-8	14-10
@ Providence	2010-2011	L 82-70	15-17	16-8
Oklahoma State (neutral site)	2010-2011	W 68-60	20-14	16-7
New Mexico (NIT)	2010-2011	W 74-67	22-3	18-4
Miami (NIT)	2010-2011	W 79-64	21-15	11-12
Colorado (NIT)	2010-2011	W 62-61	24-14	18-6
Wichita State (NIT)	2010-2011	L 66-57	29-8	25-0
Maryland (neutral site)	2011-2012	W 62-42	17-15	14-10
Wichita State	2011-2012	W 70-60	27-6	25-0
VCU	2011-2012	W 72-64	29-7	19-5
Oklahoma State	2011-2012	W 69-52	15-18	16-7
Creighton (NCAA)	2011-2012	L 58-57	29-6	19-4
Oregon State	2012-2013	W 65-62	14-18	13-10
@ VCU	2012-2013	L 73-54	27-9	19-5
@ Texas Tech	2012-2013	W 66-62	11-20	12-11
Stanford (NIT)	2012-2013	W 66-54	19-15	15-7
Maryland (NIT)	2012-2013	L 58-57	25-13	14-10
Oklahoma (neutral site)	2013-2014	L 82-73	N/A	18-6
Texas Tech	2013-2014	W 76-64	N/A	12-11
Wichita State	2013-2014	L 72-67	N/A	25-0
@ UCLA	2013-2014	L 75-67	N/A	18-5

Other programs have improved, and some have declined since playing Alabama. I see more improvement than declining, though.

 

[Ldlane]

This isn't turning into a CMG vs. CAG thread. The comparison was done on the "tone" and "content" of Cecil's articles regarding program performance at similar times. I don't want it to go that way.

Since this is turning into a CMG vs. CAG thread, I found this bit of information that I think is both relevant and telling.:

http://www.gopack.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/gottfried_mark00.html

 

[Rama Jama]

What happens if we lose to Aubie again? Can we really afford to be the bottom dweller in a bad conference and hope things magically get better. We re going to have to rely on freshman next year which is never a good thing. As for this year, play the freshman so they have a true years experience next year.

 

[edwd58]

Right now we are 9-14 and 3-7; that is going to be worse than Gottfired's low point of 17-16 and 5-11. I belive we needed teh change, but sadly to date after 5 years, Coach Grant's accomplishments don't equal Coach Gottfried's first 5 years.

I've no idea if CAG gets more time or not; personally, and I'm likely in the minority here, I hope he does and I'll leave it at that.

Indulge me a moment to address the above quote. CMG posted a 13-15 (6-10 SEC) record in year two. In his 1st 5 yrs his record was 99-61 (39-41 SEC), 2 yrs of no post season, 1 NIT trip (runner-up), and 2 NCAA trips (went 1-2). CAG is 95-66 (42-36 SEC), 2 yrs of no post season (counting this yr), 2 NIT trips (1 runner-up) with a 6-2 record, 1 NCAA trip (went 0-1). The NIT trip in '11 should have been an NCAA trip but "the committee" selected UGA (a team we beat twice). I find the two records to be very comparable.

 

[Matt0424]

I've no idea if CAG gets more time or not; personally, and I'm likely in the minority here, I hope he does and I'll leave it at that.

Indulge me a moment to address the above quote. CMG posted a 13-15 (6-10 SEC) record in year two. In his 1st 5 yrs his record was 99-61 (39-41 SEC), 2 yrs of no post season, 1 NIT trip (runner-up), and 2 NCAA trips (went 1-2). CAG is 95-66 (42-36 SEC), 2 yrs of no post season (counting this yr), 2 NIT trips (1 runner-up) with a 6-2 record, 1 NCAA trip (went 0-1). The NIT trip in '11 should have been an NCAA trip but "the committee" selected UGA (a team we beat twice). I find the two records to be very comparable.

You can't compare their first five years on an equal level, because CAG took over a much better program then CMG did...

 

[edwd58]

You can't compare their first five years on an equal level, because CAG took over a much better program then CMG did...

That is certainly open to debate; however, my response was to someone that did exactly that.

 

[BamaMTA06]

You can't compare their first five years on an equal level, because CAG took over a much better program then CMG did...

You can't be serious. The only difference between the is that the SEC is so week that CAG finishing 12-6 and #2 in the SEC wasn't good enough to get in the tournament. CMG got in with .500 conference records and I think one year he had a losing record.

 

[CajunCrimson]

I get looking at 5 year trends, but the end of this five year trend is bad. Our defense has gotten progressively worse, our offense has gotten worse as well. Our schedule has caused a part of the record issue this year. But, with that said, what is our record vs teams that played in the NCAA since Coach Grant arrived, I bet it's horrible.

 

[TexasBama]

IIRC one of CMGs NIT teams we didn't make the NCAA due to weak OOC.
I think in comparing the two, the bad is about the same and the good CMG is better.

 

[RTR91]

You can't be serious. The only difference between the is that the SEC is so week that CAG finishing 12-6 and #2 in the SEC wasn't good enough to get in the tournament. CMG got in with .500 conference records and I think one year he had a losing record.

Both years Bama went to the NIT, it was on the "bubble." It should have gone to the tournament at least one of those years.

I'm getting tired of the way this team is going, but I'm still going to take CAG's side when discussing CMG and CAG.

 

[37bamagreats55]

The fact that people are even comparing Coach Mark Gottfried and Coach Anthony Grant is disturbing at best and not a good sign for CAG.

If he's able to hang on, here's to hoping we can turn things around drastically.

 

[TheAccountant]

The fact that people are even comparing Coach Mark Gottfried and Coach Anthony Grant is disturbing at best and not a good sign for CAG.

If he's able to hang on, here's to hoping we can turn things around drastically.

I was just about to post the same. It certainly doesn't speak well for the job Grant's done when his record is being compared to his predecessor who was fired mid-season

 

[Matt0424]

You can't be serious. The only difference between the is that the SEC is so week that CAG finishing 12-6 and #2 in the SEC wasn't good enough to get in the tournament. CMG got in with .500 conference records and I think one year he had a losing record.

Look at the roster that Gottfried took over, and look at what Grant took over and check back with me... CAG had more talent to start with then CMG had, and it isn't even close...

 

[WPtider]

I've watched 3 of the past 4 games hoping we could turn things around but today's loss just confirms the fact that we are a bottom dweller in a middle tier conference right now. We can't win on the road and lose to most above average teams at home. Grant has had 5 years and can't keep talent in the program or evaluate talent well enough to compete. I have full confidence that if given another year we'll see a few key defections in the offseason and won't be able to replace Releford. The worst case scenario in giving him another year is that at this point our expectations are so low that if he could, "shock the world," with a tournament appearance he would likely get more time to completely make us forget when we were a power in the SEC and made the NCAA tournament on a regular basis. He is nowhere near the coach CMG was and will never approach the success CMG's teams had in his first 5 yrs. He needed to be let go when he was fired and at this point so does CAG. Its time for a change.

 

[ptw1961]

If not for the 5 million buyout, I truly believe that a change would be made at season's end. Battle is in a tough position here. I do not believe the BOT's will cut this check to Grant. But life without Releford next year will be very difficult. Yes, some talented players are coming in next year-I understand that fact. I have just lost confidence that any talent will be developed properly. There will still be no inside play to speak of. Coaching wins close games on the road- Grant just seems unable to get it done. Why did Jacobs not play more today after his great game against Ole Miss? Look-I have been a loyal Bama basketball fan since the Leon Douglas/Charles Cleveland days. Just not sure what the answer is right- and there may not be a good answer.