The Trump Trade Wars

CharminTide

Hall of Fame
Oct 23, 2005
7,072
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If you read my post you will see I did not say they support Trump's wall. I said they supported a wall prior to him taking office. This is just one example but I am sure there are many others. All of which will be years old because they changed sides once Trump started pushing for a wall. This is the problem with most if not all politicians, they change their support so much you never know what they actually believe or what they support no matter which side they are on. "Speaking to a South Carolina rotary club in November 2006, Biden touted his support for the Secure Fence Act -- a bill that authorized 700 miles of double-layered fence on the border through more than a billion dollars in appropriations. The bill was also supported by then-Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. CNN's KFile reviewed the video, which had been posted on YouTube at the time.
"Folks, I voted for a fence, I voted, unlike most Democrats -- and some of you won't like it -- I voted for 700 miles of fence," Biden told the group. "But, let me tell you, we can build a fence 40 stories high -- unless you change the dynamic in Mexico and -- and you will not like this, and -- punish American employers who knowingly violate the law when, in fact, they hire illegals. Unless you do those two things, all the rest is window dressing."
So when you said "most of the people running," you actually meant just Biden.

Gotcha.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,190
6,893
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Huntsville, AL,USA
Anyone can see 1/93 is a majority. There are 93 dem candidates, right? :D
The thing is that an overwhelming, crushing majority of Americans support parts of the ACA - preexisting conditions, kids remaining on their parents' coverage, etc. When you frame it as "do you want Obamacare choosing your doctor, and socialized medicine," the answer is "no." Most of the provisions of the ACA are popular with most people. Mostly, it's ideologues who cling to the belief it's not popular. However, outside the world of doctors, it's not true. I'll admit that, at times, I wished the Republicans had succeeded in repealing it and watched them become a permanent, small minority party. (And I'm not even a Democrat...)
 

NationalTitles17

Super Moderator
May 25, 2003
17,071
6,479
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Mountainous Northern California
The thing is that an overwhelming, crushing majority of Americans support parts of the ACA - preexisting conditions, kids remaining on their parents' coverage, etc. When you frame it as "do you want Obamacare choosing your doctor, and socialized medicine," the answer is "no." Most of the provisions of the ACA are popular with most people. Mostly, it's ideologues who cling to the belief it's not popular. However, outside the world of doctors, it's not true. I'll admit that, at times, I wished the Republicans had succeeded in repealing it and watched them become a permanent, small minority party. (And I'm not even a Democrat...)
Even I have come around on "Obamacare", "Romneycare", or "Heritage Foundationcare" - whatever you'd like to call it (and all would be true).

The ACA is an imperfect law and it has done some harm to some people while helping a great deal more.

Some things I've noticed are people who had no health insurance for years finally getting treatment for things that would have cost less if treated earlier. This is hopefully a one-time cost leftover of previous failed policies.

Another thing is that this whole "having skin in the game" nonsense is nonsense. People generally do not go out of their way (with few exceptions) to get unnecessary tests. Increasing the out of pocket costs for the insured only assures that many will delay getting things done which only increases the costs both in terms of money and health (and the lost production economically that results) down the road in some cases.

The states that opted to not join in to give their citizens basic care are doing them a disservice and are doing nothing at all to bring down costs or improve health.

Obamacare was the Republican healthcare plan until Obama proposed it. Then it was suddenly bad policy.

So long as choice is preserved and the private market is allowed to continue I have no problem with a medicare for all scheme, with the added caveat that everyone pays into it similar to the current medicare system.
 

chanson78

All-American
Nov 1, 2005
2,586
808
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Huntsville, AL
When people talk about the ACA being bad policy and how it is essentially socialized medicine, it is immediately obvious that they are fundamentally ignorant with regards to how the health care market currently operates.
 

4Q Basket Case

FB|BB Moderator
Nov 8, 2004
5,498
1,227
228
Tuscaloosa
I came around on the ACA as it evolved in the last couple of Obama years....mainly because, after a period of adjustment, the health insurance companies made it work.

So rather than a government-operated program (which, imo, would have been a fiasco of Biblical proportions), it was really a law that was enforced through a provision in the tax code, and executed by the private sector. Which isn't perfectly aligned with my capitalistic beliefs, but I'm pragmatic enough to know that it's as good as we're realistically going to get on this topic.

Then, Congress messed up the fundamental assumption that everybody who didn't have a plan of their own (whether employer-sponsored or otherwise) had to have ACA.

When they made it optional, healthy young people opted out in droves because they knew the chances of needing it for something financially life changing were small. And even if they lost that bet and something unexpected did happen, they wouldn't be turned away for the care they needed.

Trouble is, that cut the financial underpinnings out from under the whole program. It was a huge mistake, and the general public doesn't understand its gravity -- that it actually leads to higher costs for insurance carriers, and therefore higher premiums for patients who have insurance of whatever origin.

I think the huge majority of the public would support the pre-2017 version. Acknowledging it's imperfections, I know I would.
 
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GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
16,667
851
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Greenbow, Alabama
At the risk of sounding like a complete dumb arse, can some Trump follower tell me exactly what kind of healthcare plan he and the Republicans propose.
 

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