Thoughts from our liberal brethren on the recent events regarding Obamacare.

[Bamabuzzard]

* The president's claim of :

“That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health-care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health-care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.” -Obama June 15, 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/

But as we're finding out this is not true and it is even being reported that he and his administration knew this all along.

*The White House pressuring insurance executives to keep quiet about problems in the roll out.


* The report that they went into the healthcare bill and made changes to it AFTER it was passed.


I would like to hear the thoughts from our liberal brethren on the above.

 

[Jon]

this is what you'll get

 

[92tide]

my experience. i got notice about 6 weeks ago that my current policy with kaiser was going to go up $100/month starting dec. 1, to $1500. they gave me the option of "keeping" my current plan, or shopping their site or the exchanges for other plans. i found a nearly identical plan through kaiser for $900/month (staying at gold level). i price compared through the exchange and had options ranging from $400-$1200/month from which to choose. We make too much money to qualify for subsidies, but we are looking at $7,200 less in premiums for 2014. needless to say, i am pretty happy about that.

i frankly don't care about the rest of the stuff you mention (please know that this is not meant as snarky towards you), and i didn't before i knew what the impact was going to be on our bottom line.

 

[formersoldier71]

this is what you'll get

If nothing else, seebell looks fabulous.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

my experience. i got notice about 6 weeks ago that my current policy with kaiser was going to go up $100/month starting dec. 1, to $1500. they gave me the option of "keeping" my current plan, or shopping their site or the exchanges for other plans. i found a nearly identical plan through kaiser for $900/month (staying at gold level). i price compared through the exchange and had options ranging from $400-$1200/month from which to choose. We make too much money to qualify for subsidies, but we are looking at $7,200 less in premiums for 2014. needless to say, i am pretty happy about that.

i frankly don't care about the rest of the stuff you mention (please know that this is not meant as snarky towards you), and i didn't before i knew what the impact was going to be on our bottom line.

You don't care the administration knew there would be millions of people who couldn't keep their existing plan yet vehemently insured they would? Isn't that lying? You don't care about that?

Congrats to you that you found a plan similar to the one you had for less. But that is not the case for a lot of people. They are getting screwed.

I find it hard to believe that you don't care that an administration (whether it's democrat or not) goes back into a bill/law and changes it after it has been passed without the knowledge of the American public. So you don't have a problem with any administration doing this? I find that hard to believe about you.

 

[92tide]

If nothing else, seebell looks fabulous.

the years around his appearance in the crying game were seebell's finest

 

[92tide]

You don't care the administration knew there would be millions of people who couldn't keep their existing plan yet vehemently insured they would? Isn't that lying? You don't care about that?

Congrats to you that you found a plan similar to the one you had for less. But that is not the case for a lot of people. They are getting screwed.

I find it hard to believe that you don't care that an administration (whether it's democrat or not) goes back into a bill/law and changes it after it has been passed without the knowledge of the American public. So you don't have a problem with any administration doing this? I find that hard to believe about you.

yeah, i don't care. getting outraged and offended that the hype around legislation is overwrought is a waste of energy IMHO, so is pretending to be surprised when large reaching legislation runs into bumps and has to be tweaked. what i care about is the impact, and yeah, there will be some people who end up getting "screwed", but i believe that there are a lot more people being helped than being "screwed". its just that the anecdotes about being "screwed" make far more emotionally compelling stories for those who are looking to be outraged about the healthcare law.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

yeah, i don't care. getting outraged and offended that the hype around legislation is overwrought is a waste of energy IMHO, so is pretending to be surprised when large reaching legislation runs into bumps and has to be tweaked. what i care about is the impact, and yeah, there will be some people who end up getting "screwed", but i believe that there are a lot more people being helped than being "screwed". its just that the anecdotes about being "screwed" make far more emotionally compelling stories for those who are looking to be outraged about the healthcare law.

What you're describing is classic bait and switch. A form of corruption and lying. If "you" the administration KNEW there would be millions who couldn't keep their existing policies then don't say they will. That's lying to people to get approval on something. That has nothing to do with "tweaking". Maybe "twerking" in our faces after the truth comes out. But definitely not "tweaking". It's corruption at its finest and if this is the type of precedence we want to set for our government then we might as well burn the thing down and start over.

What they did would be like me going to buy something and both the seller and I came to an agreement on what I was buying. Then when I actually received the product it was very different than what I agreed to. But then I was forced to pay for it anyway even though the product I received wasn't what I agreed to buy. That's fraud. No different than what this administration did with this healthcare act. No different.

 

[92tide]

What you're describing is classic bait and switch. A form of corruption and lying. If "you" the administration KNEW there would be millions who couldn't keep their existing policies then don't say they will. That's lying to people to get approval on something. That has nothing to do with "tweaking". Maybe "twerking" in our faces after the truth comes out. But definitely not "tweaking". It's corruption at its finest and if this is the type of precedence we want to set for our government then we might as well burn the thing down and start over.

What they did would be like me going to buy something and both the seller and I came to an agreement on what I was buying. Then when I actually received the product it was very different than what I agreed to. But then I was forced to pay for it anyway even though the product I received wasn't what I agreed to buy. That's fraud. No different than what this administration did with this healthcare act. No different.

you should sue the administration for fraud then. or elect representatives and a president to fix the law. if you want me to share in your outrage, its not going to happen though

 

[Bamabuzzard]

you should sue the administration for fraud then. or elect representatives and a president to fix the law. if you want me to share in your outrage, its not going to happen though

You don't mind the lying as long as it comes from the party you voted for. But I'd bet my retirement if it was from the party you didn't vote for you'd be outraged and I'd be outraged with you. Because it is not about Democrat or Republican but about right and wrong and lord forbid honesty/integrity. And why I cannot stand nor will I stand behind any of the two major parties anymore. I'm done with them both.

But it is a sad state of affairs when people will "be okay" with lying and corruption as long as it comes from their party. That's when we've gone off the proverbial cliff. Very disappointing. :frown:

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

I think we are finding out just how out government is. Still, we'll choose sides and continue to bash each other.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[92tide]

You don't mind the lying as long as it comes from the party you voted for. But I'd bet my retirement if it was from the party you didn't vote for you'd be outraged and I'd be outraged with you. Because it is not about Democrat or Republican but about right and wrong and lord forbid honesty/integrity. And why I cannot stand nor will I stand behind any of the two major parties anymore. I'm done with them both.

But it is a sad state of affairs when people will "be okay" with lying and corruption as long as it comes from their party. That's when we've gone off the proverbial cliff. Very disappointing. :frown:

i have a pretty even keel and don't get outraged by much at all. it makes life much more enjoyable. so you'd probably just be adding your retirement to the $7200/ year extra that will be in my bank account

good luck with the third party. i don't see that making much headway

 

[92tide]

I think we are finding out just how out government is. Still, we'll choose sides and continue to bash each other.


Sent from my iPhone

that has happened in this country since the beginning.

 

[jthomas666]

What you're describing is classic bait and switch. A form of corruption and lying. If "you" the administration KNEW there would be millions who couldn't keep their existing policies then don't say they will. That's lying to people to get approval on something. That has nothing to do with "tweaking". Maybe "twerking" in our faces after the truth comes out. But definitely not "tweaking". It's corruption at its finest and if this is the type of precedence we want to set for our government then we might as well burn the thing down and start over.

You must be new to politics.

Seriously, yes, Obama did a TERRIBLE job rolling out the plan, not just the technical side, where problems were to be expected, but simply in terms of clearly explaining the ramifications. the GOP was using a very simple message (Obama=Bad, ergo Obamacare=bad), and instead of fully engaging people about how the system worked, he took KISS to an extreme, and now it's biting him in the butt. Bob Riley did the same thing when he tried to reform the AL tax code a while back, and it didn't turn out well.

But it's been a long damn, year, as of today I have a teen-age daughter, and frankly, I'm trying to focus on things that directly affect me.

I will say this, though--anyone who votes for an incumbent in 2014 should be bullwhipped.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

i have a pretty even keel and don't get outraged by much at all. it makes life much more enjoyable.

good luck with the third party.

I'd rather do that than stand behind something or someone I don't believe in.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

that has happened in this country since the beginning.

Indeed... And it's gotten progressively worse


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

my experience. i got notice about 6 weeks ago that my current policy with kaiser was going to go up $100/month starting dec. 1, to $1500. they gave me the option of "keeping" my current plan, or shopping their site or the exchanges for other plans. i found a nearly identical plan through kaiser for $900/month (staying at gold level). i price compared through the exchange and had options ranging from $400-$1200/month from which to choose. We make too much money to qualify for subsidies, but we are looking at $7,200 less in premiums for 2014. needless to say, i am pretty happy about that.

i frankly don't care about the rest of the stuff you mention (please know that this is not meant as snarky towards you), and i didn't before i knew what the impact was going to be on our bottom line.

Unless your family has fairly regular visits to the doctor and prescription fills in a year (or the potential of a pregnancy in the next year), you get more bang for your buck at the silver level in almost all plans.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

You must be new to politics.

No. I'm just fed up with what it has become. Maybe I've come to the conclusion that the existing parties really aren't that different and are two sides of the same coin. That they've become more greedy than they've ever been, more intrusive and more corrupt. I've grown real tired of having a politician get in front of a camera and do what he/she does best and that's lie.

 

[92tide]

Indeed... And it's gotten progressively worse


Sent from my iPhone

i dont think so. i just think that with all of the improvements in communication that many more folks are able to see (and in some cases be engaged in) the sausage being made

 

[92tide]

Unless your family has fairly regular visits to the doctor and prescription fills in a year (or the potential of a pregnancy in the next year), you get more bang for your buck at the silver level in almost all plans.

the silver plan is $100/mo less and will probably be a better choice at some point. my wife and i have use very little health care, but our daughter was born with a congenital heart defect and has had two open heart surgeries already. that should be all we have to do, but for now, we are opting to pay for the full deal until we get a little further from the last surgery (we are 50 weeks post op on surgery #2). if everything goes well this next year (as we fully expect it to) we will have many fewer visits to the doctor, but up until about june this year, we were having specialist visits 3-4 times per month.