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B1GTide

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Exactly which big donors have 600 million laying around?
He is right - the majority of the money will come from guys who will get access to the luxury areas being built. Not all of it, and not just a few of them, but not you and me - wealthy people.
 

81usaf92

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Exactly which big donors have 600 million laying around?
So do you believe there is no real difference between what Alabama can do financially as a post to anyone in the SEC.There is a huge reason why Nick Saban is not at Texas and still here, and it has nothing to do with the pocket change they get From fans and season-ticket holder’s
 
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KrAzY3

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So do you believe there is no real difference between what Alabama can do financially as a post to anyone in the SEC.There is a huge reason why Nick Saban is not at Texas and still here, and it has nothing to do with the pocket change they get From fans and season-ticket holder’s
If it really came down to big donors vs. big donors. Alabama wouldn't stand a chance against Texas.

Here's just one illustration, the Texas system has an endowment of around 30 billion. Mind you, this is the result of donations made to the University. The University of Alabama has less than 2 billion.

If it's a matter of big donors, Alabama doesn't have nearly enough firepower. Thankfully, it isn't...

Edit: I can illustrate this further. Texas for example has some real heavyweight boosters, but this of course also comes with strings attached. We often hear about their meddling. I read a story about Phil Knight and Oregon, and how when they didn't do what he wanted he actually pulled his backing until they came crawling back. It is an advantage to have someone who can drop 100 million into your program, but it also comes with something else.

There are some major backers out there, that can go toe to toe with Alabama's resources on an individual basis, and Alabama hasn't always won. For example, Alabama tried to lure Gregg Marshall from Wichita St. The Kochs stepped in and there was nothing Alabama could do to outbid or offer Gregg that the Kochs couldn't.

Alabama doesn't have those type of boosters, that I'm aware of. If there's some invisible billionaire I'm missing, I'd love to hear about it (I know Alabama has boosters, but I haven't heard of anyone specifically with particularly remarkable wealth), but this also means Alabama doesn't kowtow to anyone in particular. The program itself controls its destiny, and yes relies far more heavily on the common fan and what we want than some insanely wealthy man behind a curtain.

If you sell 100,000 tickets at $85 face value, that's 8.5 million dollars. That's Nick Saban's salary type money. May be to some that's taking advantage, but where do people think that money goes? It just might go to help keep Texas from taking your coach...
 
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81usaf92

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If it really came down to big donors vs. big donors. Alabama wouldn't stand a chance against Texas.

Here's just one illustration, the Texas system has an endowment of around 30 billion. Mind you, this is the result of donations made to the University. The University of Alabama has less than 2 billion.

If it's a matter of big donors, Alabama doesn't have nearly enough firepower. Thankfully, it isn't...

Edit: I can illustrate this further. Texas for example has some real heavyweight boosters, but this of course also comes with strings attached. We often hear about their meddling. I read a story about Phil Knight and Oregon, and how when they didn't do what he wanted he actually pulled his backing until they came crawling back. It is an advantage to have someone who can drop 100 million into your program, but it also comes with something else.

There are some major backers out there, that can go toe to toe with Alabama's resources on an individual basis, and Alabama hasn't always won. For example, Alabama tried to lure Gregg Marshall from Wichita St. The Kochs stepped in and there was nothing Alabama could do to outbid or offer Gregg that the Kochs couldn't.

Alabama doesn't have those type of boosters, that I'm aware of. If there's some invisible billionaire I'm missing, I'd love to hear about it, but this also means Alabama doesn't kowtow to anyone in particular. The program itself controls its destiny, and yes relies far more heavily on the common fan and what we want than some insanely wealthy man behind a curtain.
So you really believe that our football program primarily survives off of Tide Priders, RECs, and merchandise? You probably need to look at the fact that Auburn and LSU have the same types of booster clubs and rabid fans that we do but both are stuck with coaches they can’t rid of because of buyouts and stadiums they can’t make sizable upgrades to.

Alabama may not have the mega donor that Oregon witchita state has, or has the sheer number of big donors that aTm or Texas has, but they have enough to make Nick Saban’s contract to go up enough to be happy and enough to make stadium upgrades every 3 years. Alabama paid Shula’s Buyout and made Saban the richest coach in football in the same year. How many programs can do that in the SEC? Let alone the country?

When you add it up the money that comes from TP and REC doesn’t cover near enough to pay the taxes on the stadium, coaches’s salary, and athletic upgrades that we keep seeing. There are some big people behind the scenes making money move different ways is the point. Yeah a crude number based on tickets ( which there aren’t even 100,000 tickets sold at an 85 dollar face value since there at least 20k students sold at 10 bucks a ticket) but it doesn’t take into account the other costs you have to pay even before you pay your head coach a penny. Who you get as a head coach is ultimately decided by how committed your upper echelon donors are. That doesn’t mean you have to that Jimmy Rayne type guy that has more money than sense, it means you have enough multi millionaires to pay into a pot to make Jimmy Rayne irrelevant 3 times over.

FWIW I know a couple Auburn boosters that told me from the start that Gus was going to be fired only if Jimmy Rayne pays over 80% of the buyout because the other big donors weren’t going to chip in more than their share. Yet Alabama was willing to pull the trigger on Shula and willing to pay Saban what he wanted.
 
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KrAzY3

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So you really believe that our football program primarily survives off of Tide Priders, RECs, and merchandise? You probably need to look at the fact that Auburn and LSU have the same types of booster clubs and rabid fans that we do but both are stuck with coaches they can’t rid of because of buyouts and stadiums they can’t make sizable upgrades to.
In the sense that it's what gives Alabama the edge? Absolutely, I've watched Alabama's publicly declared finances during the Nick Saban era and I've watched them gradually climb. Still, a big shot in the arm from boosters is enough to send a Texas A&M, Texas, or Oregon well out ahead on a given year.

Alabama got 40 million from the SEC last year. A simple calculator can figure out ticket revenue. They list donations to by the way, so for instance I can see that Texas A&M brought in 212 million in 2017 (ahead of Alabama) and that 93 million of that came via donations. But, when you calculate out Alabama's revenue, you see a far higher percentage came from those methods you mentioned. Merchandising (Alabama is consistently one of the top sellers), TV, ticket revenue, that's what powers this machine more so than anything else.

"Alabama athletics brought in $174.3 million. Contributions accounted for $32.9 million"

I think that puts things into proper perspective... The donors might actually outspend ticket sales (though I think some of those contributions were to acquire the rights to tickets), but they're not what drives this machine, they're just part of it. This isn't a school where half of the revenue comes via donations and it never will be.

Edit: I will add this since I actually do look it up. Auburn and LSU consistently have less revenue per year...
 
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81usaf92

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In the sense that it's what gives Alabama the edge? Absolutely, I've watched Alabama's publicly declared finances during the Nick Saban era and I've watched them gradually climb. Still, a big shot in the arm from boosters is enough to send a Texas A&M, Texas, or Oregon well out ahead on a given year.

Alabama got 40 million from the SEC last year. A simple calculator can figure out ticket revenue. They list donations to by the way, so for instance I can see that Texas A&M brought in 212 million in 2017 (ahead of Alabama) and that 93 million of that came via donations. But, when you calculate out Alabama's revenue, you see a far higher percentage came from those methods you mentioned. Merchandising (Alabama is consistently one of the top sellers), TV, ticket revenue, that's what powers this machine more so than anything else.

"Alabama athletics brought in $174.3 million. Contributions accounted for $32.9 million"

I think that puts things into proper perspective... Yes, the donors do actually outspend ticket sales (though I think some of those contributions were to acquire the rights to tickets), but they're not what drives this machine, they're just part of it. This isn't a school where half of the revenue comes via donations and it never will be.
But again tell me the difference between LSU and Auburn now and Alabama in November of 2006...Every school has their version of the REC, TP, and merchandise. But not every school has a committed upper echelon of donors willing to see things move forward.
 

KrAzY3

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But again tell me the difference between LSU and Auburn now and Alabama in November of 2006...Every school has their version of the REC, TP, and merchandise. But not every school has a committed upper echelon of donors willing to see things move forward.
That is not the difference though, not at all. That might be the difference at Oregon, or at Texas A&M (where they just flat outspent FSU). It isn't at Alabama.

I do mention this on occasion, but I dug into endowments and athletic department revenue. That's why I was here, over a year before it happened saying Texas A&M would be a good addition. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I for years went and dug up the athletic department revenue and this was also why I ranted and raved about UAB and South Alabama wasting money, because the finances tell a story. I will preface this by saying luck is a factor. The biggest difference between Alabama, LSU and Auburn (though lets not kid ourselves, Auburn even with Nick Saban would not have the revenue Alabama has because they simply lack the sheer number of dedicated fans) remains the fact that Nick Saban is here and not there, but it's far from the only difference.

With Alabama, the story isn't of high powered boosters at all. It's actually two things coming together. It's the fact that Alabama actually had some very knowledgeable, talented people involved with the program that have generally steered it in the right direction. I speak particularly of football. This combined with the other thing that Alabama has, which is a fanbase that per capita spends as well as any in the country! So, when you combine a larger than average fanbase, with one of the most loyal, hardest hitting pound for pound group of fans, you get Alabama's financial situation. Year after year Alabama has been in the top 5 in revenue, often only behind Texas and generally only behind another school because of boosters. The problem is, as often as not boosters at other schools have steered them astray. Alabama has managed to rely more heavily on their more knowledgeable and competent people.

That means something. When you remove boosters from the equation, Alabama would usually be #1! I don't say this to discount Alabama boosters, they're important, they're still some of the best in college sports, but they're well behind the top boosters in the country. Where Alabama gets out ahead, year after year, has been the fact that the average Alabama fan is more dedicated. They buy more merch, they buy more tickets, they watch more games (Birmingham is one of, if not the top market for college football), and this is Alabama's advantage. That's the story the revenue tells, that's the story attendance tells (something else I've kept an eye on over the years), that's the story merch sales tell (another thing I've watched), that's the story ratings tell (yup, that to).
 
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81usaf92

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That is not the difference though, not at all. That might be the difference at Oregon, or at Texas A&M (where they just flat outspent FSU). It isn't at Alabama.

I do mention this on occasion, but I dug into endowments and athletic department revenue. That's why I was here, over a year before it happened saying Texas A&M would be a good addition. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I for years went and dug up the athletic department revenue and this was also why I ranted and raved about UAB and South Alabama wasting money, because the finances tell a story. I will preface this by saying luck is a factor. The biggest difference between Alabama, LSU and Auburn (though lets not kid ourselves, Auburn even with Nick Saban would not have the revenue Alabama has because they simply lack the sheer number of dedicated fans) remains the fact that Nick Saban is here and not there, but it's far from the only difference.

With Alabama, the story isn't of high powered boosters at all. It's actually two things coming together. It's the fact that Alabama actually had some very knowledgeable, talented people involved with the program that have generally steered it in the right direction. I speak particularly of football. This combined with the other thing that Alabama has, which is a fanbase that per capita spends as well as any in the country! So, when you combine a larger than average fanbase, with one of the most loyal, hardest hitting pound for pound group of fans, you get Alabama's financial situation. Year after year Alabama has been in the top 5 in revenue, often only behind Texas and generally only behind another school because of boosters. The problem is, as often as not boosters at other schools have steered them astray. Alabama has managed to rely more heavily on their more knowledgeable and competent people.

That means something. When you remove boosters from the equation, Alabama would usually be #1! I don't say this to discount Alabama boosters, they're important, they're still some of the best in college sports, but they're well behind the top boosters in the country. Where Alabama gets out ahead, year after year, has been the fact that the average Alabama fan is more dedicated. They buy more merch, they buy more tickets, they watch more games (Birmingham is one of, if not the top market for college football), and this is Alabama's advantage. That's the story the revenue tells, that's the story attendance tells (something else I've kept an eye on over the years), that's the story merch sales tell (another thing I've watched), that's the story ratings tell (yup, that to).
I’ll make it simple... “ how did we get Nick Saban and pay for him while paying off 2 HCs in major sports”. At some point you are going to have to admit the average fan isn’t who Mal was asking if he could make that kinda decision for that kinda money. He is asking Witt and the big donors if the money will be there if Sexton shoots for the moon.

FWIW I’m not saying that big boosters and donors are running the show. I’m saying that their involvement is more often why teams can land big time coaches and make stadium advancements.
 

KrAzY3

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I’ll make it simple... “ how did we get Nick Saban and pay for him while paying off 2 HCs in major sports”. At some point you are going to have to admit the average fan isn’t who Mal was asking if he could make that kinda decision for that kinda money.
I fully concede that for a quick infusion of cash, the boosters are absolutely necessary. I would however mention that this wasn't even a Jimbo Fisher Texas A&M type deal . Jimbo got 75 million. Nick Saban's first deal was a 32 million dollar deal, quite hefty but still at a different level in terms of how deep into pockets people had to dig. I'm sure that boosters helped fend off Texas' advances as well, just saying that if this was all about boosters that's a fight Alabama couldn't have won.

I'm just trying to emphasize that the money us "regular" fans spend actually accounts for most of the money Alabama gets, and that we do make a difference. Even if you look at it like this, let's say only 100,000 Alabama fans spend money on the program in some capacity. You get to 140 million by accounting for 1,400 per fan. Now that's a lot, but considering there's more fans than that, that spend money, it's easy enough to see how those of us that spend a few hundred a year end up contributing to Alabama's supremacy.

For instance, Alabama is #1 in the SEC in football attendance. Last I checked, Alabama was #1 in the SEC in merch sales. They were #1 in the SEC in non-TV media deals (several times higher than some other schools). So on so forth, so what you get is a program that minus the booster contributions is also #1 in the SEC in revenue. I get why it might feel like our contributions are kind of pointless, but cumulatively they are far from it. We collectively are what helps Alabama distance itself.

There's also no getting around the fact that if we paid less, that gap would narrow if not vanish altogether.
 
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81usaf92

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I fully concede that for a quick infusion of cash, the boosters are absolutely necessary. I would however mention that this wasn't even a Jimbo Fisher Texas A&M type deal . Jimbo got 75 million. Nick Saban's first deal was a 32 million dollar deal, quite hefty but still at a different level in terms of how deep into pockets people had to dig. I'm sure that boosters helped fend off Texas' advances as well, just saying that if this was all about boosters that's a fight Alabama couldn't have won.

I'm just trying to emphasize that the money us "regular" fans spend actually accounts for most of the money Alabama gets, and that we do make a difference. Even if you look at it like this, let's say only 100,000 Alabama fans spend money on the program in some capacity. You get to 140 million by accounting for 1,400 per fan. Now that's a lot, but considering there's more fans than that, that spend money, it's easy enough to see how those of us that spend a few hundred a year end up contributing to Alabama's supremacy.

For instance, Alabama is #1 in the SEC in football attendance. Last I checked, Alabama was #1 in the SEC in merch sales. They were #1 in the SEC in non-TV media deals (several times higher than some other schools). So on so forth, so what you get is a program that minus the booster contributions is also #1 in the SEC in revenue. I get why it might feel like our contributions are kind of pointless, but cumulatively they are far from it. We collectively are what helps Alabama distance itself.

There's also no getting around the fact that if we paid less, that gap would narrow if not vanish altogether.
Then you best hope they find the cure for greed before the down times hit again because they are going to find out how loyal a starving dog is real quick.

FWIW most of us don’t care about the understandable price increases on merch, concessions, and etc. Its the monopolizing crap and the obvious greedy cash grabs that they needlessly implement. People may grit their teeth and pay it now but what about 10 years from now? 15 years from now? 20? By then we probably will have a 75k seat NFL stadium with how attendance ( actual not dream world) is going. Plus the advancements in technology is making games at home cheaper, comfortable, and very competitive to the actual thing.
 

B1GTide

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Then you best hope they find the cure for greed before the down times hit again because they are going to find out how loyal a starving dog is real quick.

FWIW most of us don’t care about the understandable price increases on merch, concessions, and etc. Its the monopolizing crap and the obvious greedy cash grabs that they needlessly implement. People may grit their teeth and pay it now but what about 10 years from now? 15 years from now? 20? By then we probably will have a 75k seat NFL stadium with how attendance ( actual not dream world) is going. Plus the advancements in technology is making games at home cheaper, comfortable, and very competitive to the actual thing.
At the end of the day, this does not bother me because this is a luxury. People can gouge me for my luxuries all they want. I have the ability to walk away at no loss to myself or my family. We have bigger problems with greed in this world - real problems that hurt everyone.
 

KrAzY3

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Then you best hope they find the cure for greed before the down times hit again because they are going to find out how loyal a starving dog is real quick.
Here's what confuses me. Each time Alabama does something with the money that greed produces, we applaud it. Some nice shiny new facility, or something done to gain an advantage, we're all for it. And, believe me, Alabama spends most of that 140 million on the athletic department itself.

But, it's greed when they are taking the money in...

We can't have it both ways. We want the nice shiny fancy stuff, we want to literally outspend the competition, we have to, you know, outspend the competition. And, as I've outlined since we don't have the billionaire boosters with limitless resources, a big chunk of that does in fact have to come from us. If we support the program less, the program will do less, it's as simple as that.
 
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81usaf92

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Here's what confuses me. Each time Alabama does something with the money that greed produces, we applaud it. Some nice shiny new facility, or something done to gain an advantage, we're all for it. And, believe me, Alabama spends most of that 140 million on the athletic department itself.

But, it's greed when they are taking the money in...

We can't have it both ways. We want the nice shiny fancy stuff, we want to literally outspend the competition, we have to, you know, outspend the competition. And, as I've outlined since we don't have the billionaire boosters with limitless resources, a big chunk of that does in fact have to come from us. If we support the program less, the program will do less, it's as simple as that.
Nope not anywhere close to what I’m talking about. But if you want to bow down to the great fat elephant that takes your wallet when you are bowing then fine by me, but some of us that go to every game and spend countless dollars are just getting tired of getting kicked in the stomach by greedy cash grabs.
 

81usaf92

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At the end of the day, this does not bother me because this is a luxury. People can gouge me for my luxuries all they want. I have the ability to walk away at no loss to myself or my family. We have bigger problems with greed in this world - real problems that hurt everyone.
Yes this is true, but again we are in a time where “actual” attendance is dropping due to the advancement of entertainment technology. At some point you need to consider that most of your TP folks are Stallings, Dubose, and Shula era folks who have paid countless 100’s of thousands of dollars to finally see a dominate run, and you keep price gouging and price gouging because they are loyal and committed due to a large part because they went through many years of bad to mediocre teams to see this. When we go back to a 10 win at best team do you think they are going to be more or less committed to pay these price gouging prices?
 

KrAzY3

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Nope not anywhere close to what I’m talking about. But if you want to bow down to the great fat elephant that takes your wallet when you are bowing then fine by me, but some of us that go to every game and spend countless dollars are just getting tired of getting kicked in the stomach by greedy cash grabs.
You can't have it both ways. You can't have state of the art, top of the line facilities and the best people in the business working for the Alabama football program, and not pay for it! Are they greedy? Sure but it's the same greed that most us fans have, we're greedy for success, they're greedy for success, and that's paid for with money. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, Alabama football is what it is because it's funded as well as it is.

If you think paying for that is the same as getting kicked in the stomach, I think you're missing the big picture. There are no billionaire boosters to pay for everything while we enjoy the game from $5 seats, and if they sold seats for $5, there would be hundreds of thousands of people ready to pay for that but who missed out because the ticket sold out.

I'm not claiming the system is perfect, but it's supply and demand and that demand is supplying the football program with the resources it needs to stay ahead of other programs. You don't want to pay for it, don't, but remember that your money is the same color as the booster's money...
 
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81usaf92

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You can't have it both ways. You can't have state of the art, top of the line facilities and the best people in the business working for the Alabama football program, and not pay for it! Are they greedy? Sure but it's the same greed that most us fans have, we're greedy for success, they're greedy for success, and that's paid for with money.

If you think paying for that is the same as getting kicked in the stomach, I think you're missing the big picture. There are no billionaire boosters to pay for everything while we enjoy the game from $5 seats, and if they sold seats for $5, there'd be hundreds of thousands of people ready to pay for that but who missed out because the ticket sold out.

I'm not claiming the system is perfect, but it's supply and demand and that demand is supplying the football program with the resources it needs to stay ahead of other programs. You don't want to pay for it, don't, but remember that your money is the color as the booster's money...
Again not what I’m talking about greed wise, so yes in this sense I can have it both ways.
 

KrAzY3

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Again not what I’m talking about greed wise, so yes in this sense I can have it both ways.
Every post from you I've seen complaining here (nothing personal mind you, just discussing the topic) seemed to have to do with being charged for things and your interpretation of that as greed.

What else are you talking about then if not paying money (directly or indirectly) to the Alabama athletic department?

I'll add that I'm on the waiting list, and I got the same email as everyone else. But it's only happening because there's a waiting list, and I surmise the surcharge is part of their funding push for the upcoming $600,000,000 in new facilities (some of which Alabama fans have been calling for, for a long time).
 

81usaf92

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Every post from you I've seen complaining here (nothing personal mind you, just discussing the topic) seemed to have to do with being charged for things and your interpretation of that as greed.

What else are you talking about then if not paying money (directly or indirectly) to the Alabama athletic department?

I'll add that I'm on the waiting list, and I got the same email as everyone else. But it's only happening because there's a waiting list, and I surmise the surcharge is part of their funding push for the upcoming $600,000,000 in new facilities (some of which Alabama fans have been calling for, for a long time).
Well stay on the waiting list if it makes you feel more involved and like you are contributing to the cause. and good for you ( i really mean that).

I’ve just got to the point where I’ve seen UA for what it is, and I’m seriously thinking about the day when my basement is better than going to a game in Tuscaloosa. I’ve seen the University’s bullying, greedy, and monopoly tactics for every game in the past 6 years, and it gets worse every year. If you want specifics PM me, but let’s just say you and I see a different University of Alabama and probably leave it at that
 
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GP for Bama

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Every post from you I've seen complaining here (nothing personal mind you, just discussing the topic) seemed to have to do with being charged for things and your interpretation of that as greed.

What else are you talking about then if not paying money (directly or indirectly) to the Alabama athletic department?

I'll add that I'm on the waiting list, and I got the same email as everyone else. But it's only happening because there's a waiting list, and I surmise the surcharge is part of their funding push for the upcoming $600,000,000 in new facilities (some of which Alabama fans have been calling for, for a long time).
FYI.... I'm pretty sure the waiting list is in order of Tide Pride points and then time on the waiting list. If you can buy season tickets to some low priced sport such as softball or gymnastics you will acquire Tide Pride points. Also donating $100 will get you 3 Tide Pride points. Just a few points will move you way up on the football waiting list.
 

lowend

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When we go back to a 10 win at best team do you think they are going to be more or less committed to pay these price gouging prices?
Particularly with the majority of the student body being from out-of-state now. When they go back home to California, Indiana, or Ohio, will they really donate that amount of money and spend thousands more to come back for games?
 

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