This as become a "thing" of late, but for some reason I would consider this a slight to CNS, the GOAT - naming the dirt after him?"Nick Saban Field" at Bryant-Denny Stadium
The University will have to wrestle with this question in years to come.
This as become a "thing" of late, but for some reason I would consider this a slight to CNS, the GOAT - naming the dirt after him?"Nick Saban Field" at Bryant-Denny Stadium
I pull for ND when they are not playing Bama, and twice as hard when they play Clemson.I virtually know zero Alabama fans that pull for ND but you can also throw Ara Parsegian into the mix, his 1966 team that played Michigan St to the infamous 10- 10 tie cost Bryant the 1966 National Championship and then 1973 defeated an unbeaten Alabama team 24-23 in which Alabama was ranked #1 and had them backed up on their side of the field and Tom Clemens hit a lame duck pass to their TE on 3rd and 8 to secure the win, talking about an alcoholic induced coma that was the night.
Off the top of my head, only Wallace Wade Ave. that runs along the west side of the stadium.LIttle if anything for Wade - I guess because of his exit. I think there has been a little bit of rectifying that in recent years.
Are we just now coming to this realization? Where have you been for the last decade man?I thought about this last night. Every football powerhouse seems to have that one iconic coach that will forever be associated with them. We, of course, have Coach Bryant, while Notre Dame has Knute Rockne, Oklahoma has Bud Wilkinson, Nebraska has Tom Osborne, etc...
The way Coach Saban is going, we might wind up with two truly iconic coaches for all time.
Yes, let's blame Knute Rockne for dying in a plane crash..........IMO, the only coaches to approach Saban or Bryant status is Rockne and Leahy and their tenures were way too short to be included
A fair point to consider where he ranks all-time, yes.and some of Leahy's success was during the heavily diluted WWII years.
I think what may shock folks is that when we consider ranking greatest ever, what exact level do we assign "happened to coach in an easier place to win?" I'm not trying in any way to detract from Saban, and his record speaks for itself as far as the top-to-bottom development of college players. But unless I'm missing something, Saban didn't invent anything like the "46 Defense" or "I formation" or "wishbone," although one CAN argue persuasively that he took things that already existed and did them better than anyone (which is also a point in his favor).IMO, there is no "might" to it - Saban is the GOAT, Bryant is also iconic and Rockne - IMO, no one else can lay a legitimate claim. Wade would come the closest because of putting both the South and ultimately the "greatest program" on the map but somehow, he doesn't quite get there. Of course, there is no bias here .
I always have a hard time getting in the GOAT question amongst coaches. I think we do however have a consensus with Saban but passed that it’s difficult. I think we can mostly agree on who would probably be in the top 10 but we really have no idea the exact order or who is #10. For instance the Osborne vs Switzer question. You could argue both ways and sound reasonable. Hell you could even make and argument that neither deserve it.Yes, let's blame Knute Rockne for dying in a plane crash..........
A fair point to consider where he ranks all-time, yes.
But on the other hand, Army had two Heisman winners in back-to-back years at that time, too, and nobody says, "Well yeah but."
I think what may shock folks is that when we consider ranking greatest ever, what exact level do we assign "happened to coach in an easier place to win?" I'm not trying in any way to detract from Saban, and his record speaks for itself as far as the top-to-bottom development of college players. But unless I'm missing something, Saban didn't invent anything like the "46 Defense" or "I formation" or "wishbone," although one CAN argue persuasively that he took things that already existed and did them better than anyone (which is also a point in his favor).
I think history will regard Saban as the greatest myself, but I think we do a disservice to coaches in the more regional game who hardly the advantages of an Alabama, Oklahoma, or Ohio State.
I think it's better to say "MAC" (Most accomplished coach) or "MAP" (Most accomplished player) than "GOAT" myself - aside from the fact for the longest time a "goat" was a player who made a mistake that cost his team a game or a championship (e.g. Lonnie Smith was the goat of the 1991 World Series).I always have a hard time getting in the GOAT question amongst coaches. I think we do however have a consensus with Saban but passed that it’s difficult. I think we can mostly agree on who would probably be in the top 10 but we really have no idea the exact order or who is #10. For instance the Osborne vs Switzer question. You could argue both ways and sound reasonable. Hell you could even make and argument that neither deserve it.
That's one of the more interesting issues.For instance the Osborne vs Switzer question. You could argue both ways and sound reasonable. Hell you could even make and argument that neither deserve it.
Im convinced that Osborne going for two in 83 has given him way more credit as a class act than what he actually deserves. The 1997 championship was totally bogus and it was given because “Tom is the last stand up guy”. Osborne was dirty like the rest of them, but people hated Jimmy and Barry more to ever admit it.That's one of the more interesting issues.
Switzer had substantial advantages over Osborne on that one. Right up until the Lawrence Phillips saga, Osborne was one of "those guys you want your kid to play for." I'm not really sure where I fall on it. Look, I'm usually all for "he blew it, he's done." But Stallings was told that David Palmer NEEDED football by psychologists - or he was going to be even worse. (IIRC, something similar happened with Phillips, where Osborne's take was "look, I can just not play him and keep an eye on him").
If Lawrence Phillips did what he did in 1995 today, he'd likely be moved out of the dorm and out of the school even before the first press conference, particularly given what he did. And Nebraska's well-deserved and earned title would have a bit less of a smudge on it from those of us who lived through it.
Osborne DID inherit the Devaney system - but Perkins inherited the Bryant one, Bengston inherited Lombardi's, Dooley inherited Hallas', Jimmy Johnson even inherited Shula's.......but how many folks not named Tom Osborne or George Seifert kept it going more than through the last recruiting class of the previous guy? So Osborne DOES have to get some credit both for keeping it going AND adjusting to the times, which is why his early 90s team went from "we can kill Iowa State but can't beat those Florida-based teams" to a dynasty.
Even the top 10 is debatable on the points of "who invented what."I always have a hard time getting in the GOAT question amongst coaches. I think we do however have a consensus with Saban but passed that it’s difficult. I think we can mostly agree on who would probably be in the top 10 but we really have no idea the exact order or who is #10. For instance the Osborne vs Switzer question. You could argue both ways and sound reasonable. Hell you could even make and argument that neither deserve it.
I don't think that, in sports, developing new ideas is nearly as important as the ability to implement them on the field. Coaching isn't about invention - it is about implementation. I also don't think that it is fair to only judge a coach's success on wins and losses, especially when a coach stays in a program that does not lend itself to winning championships for the sake of that program and the kids involved.Even the top 10 is debatable on the points of "who invented what."
Does Emory Bellard get higher marks for modernizing the wishbone or lower ones because after a brief high tide at Mississippi State, they were worse than when he arrived six years earlier?
What about Clark Shaugnessy, who invented the T formation?
Is what Bill McCartney did at Colorado actually better than what Switzer did at Oklahoma in light of circumstances and probations?
I mean, yeah, Amos Alonzo Stagg DID win 314 games - in FIFTY-SEVEN SEASONS of coaching, which is 5.5 wins per year (and yes, I know that he had several seasons early on where they only played 7-8 games). His winning percentage was .605, which is six points lower than Dennis Franchione, whom nobody will confuse with anything resembling an all-time great. Of course, there's more to Stagg than "he won 314 games", and he was clearly a decent man who taught a lot of good things, too.
This is not an unreasonable conclusion.Im convinced that Osborne going for two in 83 has given him way more credit as a class act than what he actually deserves.
Well that and the reputation that Nebraska was unstoppable based on 1994 and 1995, yeah.The 1997 championship was totally bogus and it was given because “Tom is the last stand up guy”. Osborne was dirty like the rest of them, but people hated Jimmy and Barry more to ever admit it.
I can't disagree with any of this, and you're sorta making the point I'm musing about.I don't think that, in sports, developing new ideas is nearly as important as the ability to implement them on the field. Coaching isn't about invention - it is about implementation. I also don't think that it is fair to only judge a coach's success on wins and losses, especially when a coach stays in a program that does not lend itself to winning championships for the sake of that program and the kids involved.
Alabama was lucky to have 2 head coaches who did both - won prolifically while also placing a huge emphasis on the development of the players into men who are prepared for life in general, not just on the field. Eddie Robinson comes to mind.