I’m on the other side here. I’d like Kiffin. Two reasons. This has become his dream job. In this new College Football world, you need a guy that is fearless and a character. Not many of those left. I think he’d succeed. But that’s just me.
Would you prefer Lane Kiffin to coach Bama over KD?
- Thread starter saturdaysarebet
- Start date
NO. I'm hoping CKD is Bama's coaching solution for the long term. The portal situation means there won't be another Saban-like dynasty at Bama. I just want a good steady coach who's with us for the long term, produces winning teams, and occasional runs at the national championship. I think CKD is that guy... assuming we can keep him.
Well this became Shula’s dream job, Mike Dubose was fearless, and Mike price could be argued to be a character…
Again - can somebody explain the Kiffin love for me?
At least when it was Dabo, it made some elementary good sense: an former Alabama player wins multiple national championships at Alabama's expense and "comes home." Though I was never on board with Dabo, it was a great story, it made some sense.
The "we want Kiffin" crowd, I don't get. I'll lay out my case, those of you boosting this lay out yours.
1) No, there was no "Kiffin boost" to our offense during his OC tenure.
2008 - 30.5 ppg (35th of 120) - McElwain
2009 - 32.1 ppg (22nd of 120) - McElwain
2010 - 35.7 (18 of 120) - McElwain
2011 - 34.8 (20 of 120) - McElwain
2012 - 38.7 (12th of 124) - Nussmeier
2013 - 38.2 (17 of 125) - Nussmeier
2014 - 36.9 (16 of 128) - Kiffin
2015 - 35.1 (30 of 128) - Kiffin
2016 - 38.8 (16 of 128) - Kiffin
2017 - 37.1 (15 of 130) - Dabol
2018 - 45.6 (3rd of 130) - Locksley
2019 - 47.2 (2nd of 130) - Sark
2020 - 48.5 (2nd of 128) - Sark
2021 - 39.9 (6th of 130) - BoB
2022 - 41.1 (4th of 131) - BoB
2023 - 34.0 (24th of 133) - Rees
2024 - 33.8 (22nd of 134) - Sheridan/Shepherd
2025 - 33.8 (24th of 136) - Grubb
As I noted in another post, if you just look at the raw numbers, sure, 2016 looks like an immense improvement on previous years. But as I also noted, you have to subtract 7 ppg because the DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS were scoring the points (15 NOTs in 15 games). Even if you don't like that point, there's another point to be made: 2016 just happens to be the year Kiffin had some guy named Sark as an "advisor," the one who took over on short notice for the NCG because, you know, Kiffin LEFT (which once upon a time would have been an unforgivable act at UA).
2) Kiffin is not some offensive genius.
He's not Sid Gillman or Don Coryell or Joe Gibbs or Bill Walsh or even Mike Leach. Did Kiffin ever invent anything like the spread offense, the I formation, the RPO, the wishbone, or anything that will be recalled as a game changer 20 years from now?
3) If you will simply look at his numbers - Kiffin is basically Houston Nutt with a more beneficial schedule.
Yeah, I'm gonna get some heat for this one, but I'm referring to the pre-Ole Miss Nutt, too.
Go look very closely at his record at Ole Miss. I'm willing to set aside 2020 because it was a first year in a 'never-again-in-our-lifetimes' scenario. So how is Kiffin - REALLY?
He's 55-19 this morning. Of those 55 wins, 20 are against the cupcakes he schedules out of conference. And Ole Miss doesn't play ANYONE worth a damn, folks. It's littered with teams like my alma mater (Austin Peay - an FCS school), Tulane, the Citadel, with the once a year "Athletically Challenged Conference" team with a .500 record like Louisville or Georgia Tech or Wazzu. Any minimally decent SEC coach would have the same record against those teams. So now we're down to 35-19 before we assess his SEC record, which "looks" pretty good for a guy at Ole Miss.
But it's somewhat inflated, too.
He's also 3-2 in bowls, but this isn't 20 years ago. He is likely as harmed as he is helped by the opt outs, the portal, and everything else, so let's just drop those since it's pretty much a wash. He's now 32-17 in his SEC games - which is "pretty good" in the SEC if you're not at a powerhouse. Drop 2020 and he's at 28-12, again, pretty good at Ole Miss for a five-year record.
Now......go look at who he's played and beaten AND LOST TO, and you'll understand why he's Nutt, who was 22-18 in the SEC in his first five years as head coach at Arky.
"Oh, but he's SIX GAMES BETTER than Nutt, how can you say that???"
Kiffin's 28 wins are:
- a 4-7 record against teams that had a WINNING SEC record
- 15-0 against teams with 2 or fewer SEC wins
- he's benefited by LSU, aTm, and Auburn all becoming train wrecks at the same time, having Alabama conveniently removed from the schedule, basically not having to face more than 1-2 good teams a year (it's always hilarious to me how many Alabama fans can SEE this when it's an ACC coach like Dabo but suddenly develop selective amnesia when it's Kiffin)
Now go look at Nutt's first five years at Arky.
- 7-12 record against teams with a WINNING SEC record (including UGA in the 2002 SECCG)
- 8-0 against teams with 2 or fewer SEC wins
Roughly translated, Houston had six more SEC losses in the 8 more games he played against SEC teams with in-conference winning records. Sure, his record was worse because he played a substantially tougher schedule.
And he faced fewer 2-6 or worse teams. And just like Nutt, his name comes up every single year as a candidate for a job he'd never actually be in line for in the first place. The only difference is he doesn't have the decency to "deny" he is a candidate for that job.
4) I never once said Kiffin is not a decent football coach.
Look, he's better than any of us on this board. He's obviously better than anyone Ole Miss has had in the last 20 years. I don't ENTIRELY dismiss the fact he has them thinking playoffs in Oxford, something that would have seemed impossible when the NZAA wrecked them in the wake of Freeze's cheating.
But I 100% AM saying that the juice isn't worth the squeeze, either.
5) His on-field decisions are often as questionable as his off-the-field ones.
Look, you've either paid attention or you haven't. The stupid two-point conversion calls, the stupid fourth down and 8 from his own 25 when he has Oklahoma right where he wants them, the over and over dumb 4th down calls.
You can get away with that at Ole Miss, you're the drunken uncle.
You try that and fail at Alabama, you might be unemployed.
At least when it was Dabo, it made some elementary good sense: an former Alabama player wins multiple national championships at Alabama's expense and "comes home." Though I was never on board with Dabo, it was a great story, it made some sense.
The "we want Kiffin" crowd, I don't get. I'll lay out my case, those of you boosting this lay out yours.
1) No, there was no "Kiffin boost" to our offense during his OC tenure.
2008 - 30.5 ppg (35th of 120) - McElwain
2009 - 32.1 ppg (22nd of 120) - McElwain
2010 - 35.7 (18 of 120) - McElwain
2011 - 34.8 (20 of 120) - McElwain
2012 - 38.7 (12th of 124) - Nussmeier
2013 - 38.2 (17 of 125) - Nussmeier
2014 - 36.9 (16 of 128) - Kiffin
2015 - 35.1 (30 of 128) - Kiffin
2016 - 38.8 (16 of 128) - Kiffin
2017 - 37.1 (15 of 130) - Dabol
2018 - 45.6 (3rd of 130) - Locksley
2019 - 47.2 (2nd of 130) - Sark
2020 - 48.5 (2nd of 128) - Sark
2021 - 39.9 (6th of 130) - BoB
2022 - 41.1 (4th of 131) - BoB
2023 - 34.0 (24th of 133) - Rees
2024 - 33.8 (22nd of 134) - Sheridan/Shepherd
2025 - 33.8 (24th of 136) - Grubb
As I noted in another post, if you just look at the raw numbers, sure, 2016 looks like an immense improvement on previous years. But as I also noted, you have to subtract 7 ppg because the DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS were scoring the points (15 NOTs in 15 games). Even if you don't like that point, there's another point to be made: 2016 just happens to be the year Kiffin had some guy named Sark as an "advisor," the one who took over on short notice for the NCG because, you know, Kiffin LEFT (which once upon a time would have been an unforgivable act at UA).
2) Kiffin is not some offensive genius.
He's not Sid Gillman or Don Coryell or Joe Gibbs or Bill Walsh or even Mike Leach. Did Kiffin ever invent anything like the spread offense, the I formation, the RPO, the wishbone, or anything that will be recalled as a game changer 20 years from now?
3) If you will simply look at his numbers - Kiffin is basically Houston Nutt with a more beneficial schedule.
Yeah, I'm gonna get some heat for this one, but I'm referring to the pre-Ole Miss Nutt, too.
Go look very closely at his record at Ole Miss. I'm willing to set aside 2020 because it was a first year in a 'never-again-in-our-lifetimes' scenario. So how is Kiffin - REALLY?
He's 55-19 this morning. Of those 55 wins, 20 are against the cupcakes he schedules out of conference. And Ole Miss doesn't play ANYONE worth a damn, folks. It's littered with teams like my alma mater (Austin Peay - an FCS school), Tulane, the Citadel, with the once a year "Athletically Challenged Conference" team with a .500 record like Louisville or Georgia Tech or Wazzu. Any minimally decent SEC coach would have the same record against those teams. So now we're down to 35-19 before we assess his SEC record, which "looks" pretty good for a guy at Ole Miss.
But it's somewhat inflated, too.
He's also 3-2 in bowls, but this isn't 20 years ago. He is likely as harmed as he is helped by the opt outs, the portal, and everything else, so let's just drop those since it's pretty much a wash. He's now 32-17 in his SEC games - which is "pretty good" in the SEC if you're not at a powerhouse. Drop 2020 and he's at 28-12, again, pretty good at Ole Miss for a five-year record.
Now......go look at who he's played and beaten AND LOST TO, and you'll understand why he's Nutt, who was 22-18 in the SEC in his first five years as head coach at Arky.
"Oh, but he's SIX GAMES BETTER than Nutt, how can you say that???"
Kiffin's 28 wins are:
- a 4-7 record against teams that had a WINNING SEC record
- 15-0 against teams with 2 or fewer SEC wins
- he's benefited by LSU, aTm, and Auburn all becoming train wrecks at the same time, having Alabama conveniently removed from the schedule, basically not having to face more than 1-2 good teams a year (it's always hilarious to me how many Alabama fans can SEE this when it's an ACC coach like Dabo but suddenly develop selective amnesia when it's Kiffin)
Now go look at Nutt's first five years at Arky.
- 7-12 record against teams with a WINNING SEC record (including UGA in the 2002 SECCG)
- 8-0 against teams with 2 or fewer SEC wins
Roughly translated, Houston had six more SEC losses in the 8 more games he played against SEC teams with in-conference winning records. Sure, his record was worse because he played a substantially tougher schedule.
And he faced fewer 2-6 or worse teams. And just like Nutt, his name comes up every single year as a candidate for a job he'd never actually be in line for in the first place. The only difference is he doesn't have the decency to "deny" he is a candidate for that job.
4) I never once said Kiffin is not a decent football coach.
Look, he's better than any of us on this board. He's obviously better than anyone Ole Miss has had in the last 20 years. I don't ENTIRELY dismiss the fact he has them thinking playoffs in Oxford, something that would have seemed impossible when the NZAA wrecked them in the wake of Freeze's cheating.
But I 100% AM saying that the juice isn't worth the squeeze, either.
5) His on-field decisions are often as questionable as his off-the-field ones.
Look, you've either paid attention or you haven't. The stupid two-point conversion calls, the stupid fourth down and 8 from his own 25 when he has Oklahoma right where he wants them, the over and over dumb 4th down calls.
You can get away with that at Ole Miss, you're the drunken uncle.
You try that and fail at Alabama, you might be unemployed.
Maybe as OC. But just maybe. Not as HC. Offensive Line issues are killing us. If DeBoer gets that fixed, the offense does 100% better.
That's great, but he will go to the NFL again in 2-3 years.
Absolutely not! James Franklin has a better resume than Kiffin. He's a great coach, but overrated in this very moment and should use this opportunity to get more guaranteed money the NIL at Ole Miss. His most immediate chance to win is in Mississippi with better NIL.
Truth be told, Kalen has beaten Kirby 2x, and beaten every big name coach in the country other than Ryan Day who he hasn't faced yet. That stands for something, even if I hate the consistency of this team.
Lane chokes in those games and when he sometimes pulls them off, they rush the field....gross
Truth be told, Kalen has beaten Kirby 2x, and beaten every big name coach in the country other than Ryan Day who he hasn't faced yet. That stands for something, even if I hate the consistency of this team.
Lane chokes in those games and when he sometimes pulls them off, they rush the field....gross
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That explains why I never got my legs taped up this morning...
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