Death by [Fentanyl] poisoning

[twofbyc]

Mods, please fix if title is not appropriate; I looked for another thread on this but didn’t see one.
Americans are dying from fentanyl overdoses daily, and have been for a while. Fentanyl is a different opioid, from what I’ve read, inasmuch as it has extreme adverse reactions with alcohol and other drugs (cocaine) that don’t seem to be as extremely adverse with other opioids, like hydrocodone/oxycodone. So it’s more dangerous and lethal.
I had never heard of it until people started dying from it a few years back. And now, it’s being mixed with other drugs/sold as another drug on the street and killing people who didn’t know they were taking it. I’m not defending those buying it on the street; I understand addiction from first hand experience. The majority of these people don’t know what they’re buying, from everything I’ve read; maybe some do and just have a death wish. But there seems to be a concerted effort underway to sell drugs that contain fentanyl, as something other than fentanyl. Maybe it’s an attempt to kill all addicts and buyers of street drugs (some are not addicts, just looking for thrills - again, been there). And it’s not just teenagers and 20-something’s.
My nephew died Friday night of an apparent overdose. He had been, unbeknownst to me, addicted to hydrocodone since a wreck in high school, when he was prescribed large quantities by medical professionals. His injuries, even though he was hospitalized a few days, didn’t justify the quantities he was given over several months, plenty long enough to addict him.
He was soon to be 38, had a one year old son. His sister told me that she’s pretty sure he didn’t know he was doing fentanyl, if in fact an autopsy reveals that to be the case. She’s a nurse (both him and her attended UA, she almost graduated but came back home for nursing school) and she thinks that is exactly what happened. Wouldn’t be the first time - her hubby is a paramedic and has seen his share.
Opioids are bad, but they do have legitimate uses. I would be a borderline invalid without them; I’ve been on them, off an on, for nine years. They allow me to do simple tasks I can’t perform without them, and give me a quality of like I couldn’t even sniff without them. Let me also say: I AM high functioning, and I could provide professional (not medical) testimony to prove it. I’ll stop the day I can no longer meet that standard.
It’s a trade off I’m willing to make, and I will only take them as long as they’re prescribed by a licensed medical professional. I’ll never, ever, buy them on the street (I stopped taking them for almost two years, did so voluntarily).
I’m not going to live forever but I’m not ready to die tomorrow by my own hand.
In this day and age, people are poisoning Americans with fentanyl. IMO, when they sell drugs laced with fentanyl, if caught they should be charged with attempted murder, and should be incarcerated for life.
PS. I have tried cannabis options, and will explore them further once it becomes fully available in Alabama, but I’m concerned both about the cost (Medicare likely won’t cover it) and the ability to use and still maintain high functionality. My experience tells me the latter may be an issue, but I’m willing to try and see.
PPS. The Ignore button is a wonderful thing - I’m getting to like it.

 

[AWRTR]

Mods, please fix if title is not appropriate; I looked for another thread on this but didn’t see one.
Americans are dying from fentanyl overdoses daily, and have been for a while. Fentanyl is a different opioid, from what I’ve read, inasmuch as it has extreme adverse reactions with alcohol and other drugs (cocaine) that don’t seem to be as extremely adverse with other opioids, like hydrocodone/oxycodone. So it’s more dangerous and lethal.
I had never heard of it until people started dying from it a few years back. And now, it’s being mixed with other drugs/sold as another drug on the street and killing people who didn’t know they were taking it. I’m not defending those buying it on the street; I understand addiction from first hand experience. The majority of these people don’t know what they’re buying, from everything I’ve read; maybe some do and just have a death wish. But there seems to be a concerted effort underway to sell drugs that contain fentanyl, as something other than fentanyl. Maybe it’s an attempt to kill all addicts and buyers of street drugs (some are not addicts, just looking for thrills - again, been there). And it’s not just teenagers and 20-something’s.
My nephew died Friday night of an apparent overdose. He had been, unbeknownst to me, addicted to hydrocodone since a wreck in high school, when he was prescribed large quantities by medical professionals. His injuries, even though he was hospitalized a few days, didn’t justify the quantities he was given over several months, plenty long enough to addict him.
He was soon to be 38, had a one year old son. His sister told me that she’s pretty sure he didn’t know he was doing fentanyl, if in fact an autopsy reveals that to be the case. She’s a nurse (both him and her attended UA, she almost graduated but came back home for nursing school) and she thinks that is exactly what happened. Wouldn’t be the first time - her hubby is a paramedic and has seen his share.
Opioids are bad, but they do have legitimate uses. I would be a borderline invalid without them; I’ve been on them, off an on, for nine years. They allow me to do simple tasks I can’t perform without them, and give me a quality of like I couldn’t even sniff without them. Let me also say: I AM high functioning, and I could provide professional (not medical) testimony to prove it. I’ll stop the day I can no longer meet that standard.
It’s a trade off I’m willing to make, and I will only take them as long as they’re prescribed by a licensed medical professional. I’ll never, ever, buy them on the street (I stopped taking them for almost two years, did so voluntarily).
I’m not going to live forever but I’m not ready to die tomorrow by my own hand.
In this day and age, people are poisoning Americans with fentanyl. IMO, when they sell drugs laced with fentanyl, if caught they should be charged with attempted murder, and should be incarcerated for life.
PS. I have tried cannabis options, and will explore them further once it becomes fully available in Alabama, but I’m concerned both about the cost (Medicare likely won’t cover it) and the ability to use and still maintain high functionality. My experience tells me the latter may be an issue, but I’m willing to try and see.

I’m with you 100%. I talked with a grandmother last week at church that now has custody of her two month old grandson because he had a seizure and the hospital found he had fentanyl in his system. The mother wad arrested.

What would be your solution to the problem? I know it’s a multivariable issue, but where should we start? It’s a real bad problem.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Fentanyl is a valuable drug, used in anesthesia. I'm a rapid metabolizer of benzodiazepines. One or another, frequently Valium, used to be the initial drug before they put you under with Propofol or an earlier drug. I have the habit of warning first the anesthesiologist and then the anesthetist (they frequently don't communicate the way they should) of this fact. They just don't work on me. Almost two years ago, I had an atherectomy performed on both common femoral arteries. I had requested no anesthesia, since it's not a particularly painful procedure. In the OR, I started to feel drowsy. The NA was right by my elbow. I asked if she were anesthetizing me. She said she knew I was practically immune to bennies (on my hospital record), so she'd started me on Fentanyl. I just exclaimed "Well, stop!" And I repeated that I wanted to remain awake. She thought I was objecting to the Fentanyl and said that it was a perfectly safe drug in a hospital setting. I agreed but said I wanted to stay awake. I fought through it and stayed awake, but it took effort not to drift off into la-la land. I haven't looked lately, but it used to be that the group of health professionals with the highest addiction rate were anesthesiologists, mostly because of access. That, and they develop casual, almost contemptuous attitude towards the tools of their trade. I wonder if that didn't plan into your nephew's problem...

 

[92tide]

Mods, please fix if title is not appropriate; I looked for another thread on this but didn’t see one.
Americans are dying from fentanyl overdoses daily, and have been for a while. Fentanyl is a different opioid, from what I’ve read, inasmuch as it has extreme adverse reactions with alcohol and other drugs (cocaine) that don’t seem to be as extremely adverse with other opioids, like hydrocodone/oxycodone. So it’s more dangerous and lethal.
I had never heard of it until people started dying from it a few years back. And now, it’s being mixed with other drugs/sold as another drug on the street and killing people who didn’t know they were taking it. I’m not defending those buying it on the street; I understand addiction from first hand experience. The majority of these people don’t know what they’re buying, from everything I’ve read; maybe some do and just have a death wish. But there seems to be a concerted effort underway to sell drugs that contain fentanyl, as something other than fentanyl. Maybe it’s an attempt to kill all addicts and buyers of street drugs (some are not addicts, just looking for thrills - again, been there). And it’s not just teenagers and 20-something’s.
My nephew died Friday night of an apparent overdose. He had been, unbeknownst to me, addicted to hydrocodone since a wreck in high school, when he was prescribed large quantities by medical professionals. His injuries, even though he was hospitalized a few days, didn’t justify the quantities he was given over several months, plenty long enough to addict him.
He was soon to be 38, had a one year old son. His sister told me that she’s pretty sure he didn’t know he was doing fentanyl, if in fact an autopsy reveals that to be the case. She’s a nurse (both him and her attended UA, she almost graduated but came back home for nursing school) and she thinks that is exactly what happened. Wouldn’t be the first time - her hubby is a paramedic and has seen his share.
Opioids are bad, but they do have legitimate uses. I would be a borderline invalid without them; I’ve been on them, off an on, for nine years. They allow me to do simple tasks I can’t perform without them, and give me a quality of like I couldn’t even sniff without them. Let me also say: I AM high functioning, and I could provide professional (not medical) testimony to prove it. I’ll stop the day I can no longer meet that standard.
It’s a trade off I’m willing to make, and I will only take them as long as they’re prescribed by a licensed medical professional. I’ll never, ever, buy them on the street (I stopped taking them for almost two years, did so voluntarily).
I’m not going to live forever but I’m not ready to die tomorrow by my own hand.
In this day and age, people are poisoning Americans with fentanyl. IMO, when they sell drugs laced with fentanyl, if caught they should be charged with attempted murder, and should be incarcerated for life.
PS. I have tried cannabis options, and will explore them further once it becomes fully available in Alabama, but I’m concerned both about the cost (Medicare likely won’t cover it) and the ability to use and still maintain high functionality. My experience tells me the latter may be an issue, but I’m willing to try and see.
PPS. The Ignore button is a wonderful thing - I’m getting to like it.

sorry to hear about your nephew.

 

[twofbyc]

The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a Texas County — The New Yorker

Students have overdosed during class, in bathrooms, and in an elementary-school parking lot.

apple.news

 

[Tideflyer]

And....how is this going to be controlled with an essentially non-existent southern border with Mexico? Unless/until that disaster is effectively addressed, a lot more American citizens are going to die.

 

[twofbyc]

And....how is this going to be controlled with an essentially non-existent southern border with Mexico? Unless/until that disaster is effectively addressed, a lot more American citizens are going to die.

There is no doubt - no question - that fentanyl is being smuggled across the southern border.
It’s important to note, and distinguish, very clearly and quickly: this is not being done by the hundreds of thousands apprehended crossing the border monthly. It’s being smuggled by the pros, like they’ve done with weed, cocaine and heroin for DECADES. Enormous amounts of fentanyl are being produced in China, and it’s disengenuous to think that’s the only avenue they are using because it’s easy to smuggle small amounts, and small amounts of fentanyl can kill hundreds or thousands.
I would bet my life a 20 billion dollar border wall would do little, if anything, to address this particular problem. In reality, no single solution exists at all, and the multiple things that must be done will cost billions and billions of dollars. The question that must be asked is for every American to look in the mirror and ask themselves, “Am I willing to pay my share to solve this problem?” I know the answer that the majority of Americans will give, it’s the same answer that is given to every problem the federal government faces: we need a smaller federal government. The solution to this problem and the answer to this question (and many other problems we face as a nation) cannot possibly coexist. This indicates a widespread unwillingness, on an elemental level, to solve the problems.
To those who say you can’t just throw money at a problem and expect it to magically disappear, I wholeheartedly agree; it takes thoughtful planning and wise use of the money.
But I’ll also say: try doing anything that doesn’t cost money. Anything. Other than breathing and sleeping, You can’t. And each day everything costs more.
Unless Americans are willing to accept that the USA is a sovereign nation that has total control over its own currency. Certain actions might upset a lot of Americans (mostly those with the most money), but do we as a nation have the willingness to do whatever it takes?
And FWIW, Majorcas has asked Congress for more money for agents and advanced technology equipment, things that even his harshest critics admit are needed; as of yet, again…critics.
The only conclusion that I can draw is that some people in power do not want to solve the problem (not that it’d be easy or quick but doing nothing is doing nothing); if that is simply because of who’s President, that’s beyond disgusting.

 

[NationalTitles18]

And....how is this going to be controlled with an essentially non-existent southern border with Mexico? Unless/until that disaster is effectively addressed, a lot more American citizens are going to die.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers

Here are facts:

• Fentanyl smuggling is ultimately funded by U.S. consumers who pay for illicit opioids: nearly 99 percent of whom are U.S. citizens.
• In 2021, U.S. citizens were 86.3 percent of convicted fentanyl drug traffickers—ten times greater than convictions of illegal immigrants for the same offense.
• Over 90 percent of fentanyl seizures occur at legal crossing points or interior vehicle checkpoints, not on illegal migration routes, so U.S. citizens (who are subject to less scrutiny) when crossing legally are the best smugglers.
• The location of smuggling makes sense because hard drugs at ports of entry are about 97 percent less likely to be stopped than are people crossing illegally between them.
• Just 0.02 percent of the people arrested by Border Patrol for crossing illegally possessed any fentanyl whatsoever.
• The government exacerbated the problem by banning most legal cross border traffic in 2020 and 2021, accelerating a switch to fentanyl (the easiest‐to‐conceal drug).
• During the travel restrictions, fentanyl seizures at ports quadrupled from fiscal year 2019 to 2021. Fentanyl went from a third of combined heroin and fentanyl seizures to over 90 percent.
• Annual deaths from fentanyl nearly doubled from 2019 to 2021 after the government banned most travel (and asylum).

Sorry about your nephew.

 

[twofbyc]

https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers

Sorry about your nephew.

The first bullet point is the toughest to swallow. I do not know, but from the New Yorker article it appears the majority of the deaths occur because people do not know they’re buying fentanyl; it’s being sold as something else but has fentanyl in it.
That’s why I’m for changing laws: anyone trafficking in fentanyl or anything laced with fentanyl should be charged with attempted murder and life in prison.
Fentanyl is likely, from what I’ve seen, the deadliest drug to ever hit the streets of America. Those putting it on our streets know exactly what they’re doing, and those actually making it are very happy with the results.

 

[JDCrimson]

There is a whole chain of commerce that doesn't want it solved. Enforcement, judicial, incarceration, medical, insurance, on and on. It would be interesting to know the GDP supported by the illegal drug trade.

 

[NationalTitles18]

it appears the majority of the deaths occur because people do not know they’re buying fentanyl; it’s being sold as something else but has fentanyl in it.

True. Our drug policies are literally killing people.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

There is no doubt - no question - that fentanyl is being smuggled across the southern border.
It’s important to note, and distinguish, very clearly and quickly: this is not being done by the hundreds of thousands apprehended crossing the border monthly. It’s being smuggled by the pros, like they’ve done with weed, cocaine and heroin for DECADES. Enormous amounts of fentanyl are being produced in China, and it’s disengenuous to think that’s the only avenue they are using because it’s easy to smuggle small amounts, and small amounts of fentanyl can kill hundreds or thousands.
I would bet my life a 20 billion dollar border wall would do little, if anything, to address this particular problem. In reality, no single solution exists at all, and the multiple things that must be done will cost billions and billions of dollars. The question that must be asked is for every American to look in the mirror and ask themselves, “Am I willing to pay my share to solve this problem?” I know the answer that the majority of Americans will give, it’s the same answer that is given to every problem the federal government faces: we need a smaller federal government. The solution to this problem and the answer to this question (and many other problems we face as a nation) cannot possibly coexist. This indicates a widespread unwillingness, on an elemental level, to solve the problems.
To those who say you can’t just throw money at a problem and expect it to magically disappear, I wholeheartedly agree; it takes thoughtful planning and wise use of the money.
But I’ll also say: try doing anything that doesn’t cost money. Anything. Other than breathing and sleeping, You can’t. And each day everything costs more.
Unless Americans are willing to accept that the USA is a sovereign nation that has total control over its own currency. Certain actions might upset a lot of Americans (mostly those with the most money), but do we as a nation have the willingness to do whatever it takes?
And FWIW, Majorcas has asked Congress for more money for agents and advanced technology equipment, things that even his harshest critics admit are needed; as of yet, again…critics.
The only conclusion that I can draw is that some people in power do not want to solve the problem (not that it’d be easy or quick but doing nothing is doing nothing); if that is simply because of who’s President, that’s beyond disgusting.

I’m sincerely sorry about your nephew. Any death is sad. The death of a young person, especially so.

You knew this question was coming:

You correctly point out several things that haven't worked. So given your first-hand experience with such things (hinted in previous posts), and in light of your nephew’s way-too-early passing, what’s your suggested solution?

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Arresting low-level street dealers won't fix anything. Arresting users won't do anything, either. My idea for fixing this problem would be to utilize existing agencies who are already spying and carrying out assassinations on behalf of the U.S. I know the CIA has their hands full, but don't tell me they can't spare some resources and manpower to track down the source of these drugs and chop off the head rather than seeing the DEA keep cutting off tails that seemingly grow right back. If we want to get serious about eliminating this problem, I feel like this is the way.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Arresting low-level street dealers won't fix anything. Arresting users won't do anything, either. My idea for fixing this problem would be to utilize existing agencies who are already spying and carrying out assassinations on behalf of the U.S. I know the CIA has their hands full, but don't tell me they can't spare some resources and manpower to track down the source of these drugs and chop off the head rather than seeing the DEA keep cutting off tails that seemingly grow right back. If we want to get serious about eliminating this problem, I feel like this is the way.

Like all simple solutions, That sounds very attractive. The problem is that the fentanyl is produced in China and shipped to Mexico, where it gets processed and then enters the US. Sovereignty of two other nations is involved, making interdiction almost impossible. The only real solution is on the sucking end - the demand. Then is when it gets hard. Instead of one simple solution, one has to start examining the ills of society leading into addiction. That's much more difficult...

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Like all simple solutions, That sounds very attractive. The problem is that the fentanyl is produced in China and shipped to Mexico, where it gets processed and then enters the US. Sovereignty of two other nations is involved, making interdiction almost impossible. The only real solution is on the sucking end - the demand. Then is when it gets hard. Instead of one simple solution, one has to start examining the ills of society leading into addiction. That's much more difficult...

And the simple truth of the matter is this: even if we take away every drug on the planet, people would still spin around in circles in their front yards until they fell down as saw God. A society with no ills sounds nice, but it just isn't possible. We can, however, reduce some of the numbers with more funding for mental health. At least it's a start, anyway.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

And the simple truth of the matter is this: even if we take away every drug on the planet, people would still spin around in circles in their front yards until they fell down as saw God. A society with no ills sounds nice, but it just isn't possible. We can, however, reduce some of the numbers with more funding for mental health. At least it's a start, anyway.

True that we can never eliminate demand. However much we can reduce it though reduced the incentive to supply by at least that much. The other alternative is to quit punishing usage and reduce the incentive to satisfy that demand illegally. The Swiss approach seems to have worked better than what we've tried...

 

[crimsonaudio]

True that we can never eliminate demand. However much we can reduce it though reduced the incentive to supply by at least that much. The other alternative is to quit punishing usage and reduce the incentive to satisfy that demand illegally. The Swiss approach seems to have worked better than what we've tried...

Yep - it's time to admit the war on drugs was a colossal failure - people will find a way.

Could be helpful to decriminalize / regulate some drugs that are far less likely to kill you instantly than fentanyl.