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The Third-Party/Independent 2024 Thread

Go Bama

Go Bama

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AWRTR said:
I'm all for easy voting sounds great.

You should go read the reasoning behind the electoral college. You may have already done so, but people way smarter than us put it together, and it has stood the test of time. Be careful messing with what has functioned well for over around 250 years. The gerrymandering has nothing to do with the electoral college so that makes no sense to be included in your post.

The states always have something to do with it. The president was never supposed to be a popular vote. The founders wanted the states included. I trust them more than you. If a candidate wants to broadly appeal they can do so. Look at Reagan and Obama in '08. He nearly doubled McCain in the electoral college.
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Gerrymandering would affect the presidential election if the election goes to the House.

The EC was not fair from the beginning. The South had windfall electors early on because of the 3/5th's rule that allowed for more Congressional seats, thus more electors. Out of the first twelve presidential elections, nine presidents were from southern states, even though the northern states had more population. Of course, those windfall electors were lost after the 13th Amendment.

The Constitution has for the most part been a great device, but there are obvious flaws which need correcting. Since a large percentage of Black people live in the South and the South votes Republican, Black votes are negated in a presidential election.

This is a pretty deep subject. The reason I said I didn't want to get too far into it originally was I don't want to be responsible for derailing a young thread. If you want to discuss it, please start a new thread rather than responding to my post. It's not like I've never derailed a thread, but it's usually after the thread has run it's course. Thanks.
 
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TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

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Go Bama said:
Gerrymandering would affect the presidential election if the election goes to the House.

The EC was not fair from the beginning. The South had windfall electors early on because of the 3/5th's rule that allowed for more Congressional seats, thus more electors. Out of the first twelve presidential elections, nine presidents were from southern states, even though the northern states had more population. Of course, those windfall electors were lost after the 13th Amendment.

The Constitution has for the most part been a great device, but there are obvious flaws which need correcting. Since a large percentage of Black people live in the South and the South votes Republican, Black votes are negated in a presidential election.

This is a pretty deep subject. The reason I said I didn't want to get too far into it originally was I don't want to be responsible for derailing a young thread. If you want to discuss it, please start a new thread rather than responding to my post. It's not like I've never derailed a thread, but it's usually after the thread has run it's course. Thanks.
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I'm far more concerned about the effect of gerrymandering on the Congress than the presidential election, though I agree that the EC was gerrymandered aborning...
 
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J

JDCrimson

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I wish we would let Vegas set the districting lines...

TIDE-HSV said:
I'm far more concerned about the effect of gerrymandering on the Congress than the presidential election, though I agree that the EC was gerrymandered aborning...
Click to expand...
 
AWRTR

AWRTR

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Bazza said:
"I'm a common sense voter."

Just heard that phrase and thought it was pretty good.

We could use MORE common sense voters......:D
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The problem now is I don't think we could agree about what constitutes "common sense". :)
 
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TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

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92tide said:
in case anyone needs a reminder (from 2017)

www.theatlantic.com

Why Trump Invokes ‘Common Sense’

It serves as a justification for his policies and as an antidote to expert opinion
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
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The problem with his "common sense" is that, if you tunnel down far enough, what lies at the bottom is his own self-interest, usually economic...
 
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Tidewater

Tidewater

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Go Bama said:
Gerrymandering would affect the presidential election if the election goes to the House.

The EC was not fair from the beginning. The South had windfall electors early on because of the 3/5th's rule that allowed for more Congressional seats, thus more electors. Out of the first twelve presidential elections, nine presidents were from southern states, even though the northern states had more population. Of course, those windfall electors were lost after the 13th Amendment.

The Constitution has for the most part been a great device, but there are obvious flaws which need correcting. Since a large percentage of Black people live in the South and the South votes Republican, Black votes are negated in a presidential election.
Click to expand...
So you would favor counting all (5/5) of the slaves when apportioning representatives in the House? That would have given states with lots of slaves even more seats in the House. The 3/5 compromise reduced representation from slave states.
 
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Crimson1967

Crimson1967

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I agree with TW. While calling a slave 3/5 of a person sounds bad, it was actually done to reduce power of the slave owners. Not counting them at all would have been even better.
 
Tidewater

Tidewater

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Crimson1967 said:
I agree with TW.
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That's normally best. :)
Crimson1967 said:
While calling a slave 3/5 of a person sounds bad, it was actually done to reduce power of the slave owners. Not counting them at all would have been even better.
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The "Eastern States" (Founders' way of describing New England) pushed to count the slaves for the purposes of tax apportionment, but not to count them at all for representation purposes.
South Carolina and Georgia countered with counting them for representation but not for tax apportionment.
If the New Englanders had got their way, South Carolina and Georgia would have refused to ratify and would thus have become independent states.
 
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CrimsonJazz

CrimsonJazz

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www.nationalreview.com

Will RFK Jr. Play the Spoiler for Trump? | National Review

Kennedy’s bid seems less a threat to Biden than another obstacle in Trump’s path back to the White House.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com

For all Democrats’ hand-wringing about third-party spoilers, this one will chew more into the GOP’s vote share than that of the Democratic side — particularly if Donald Trump emerges as the Republican Party’s presidential nominee for a third consecutive election cycle.
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This fellow seems to think an independent RFK hurts Trump more than Biden. I can't say I disagree.
 
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