Some relevant thoughts from Thomas Jefferson

Pluck and Grit

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Jul 12, 2001
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“If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses.

And the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they do now, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mis-managers to account; but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains around the necks of our fellow sufferers.

And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second, that second for a third, and so on 'til the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automations of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering.

And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."

Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?

Material abundance without character is the path of destruction.”

Thomas Jefferson 1816 Third President of the United States 1801 -1809, Drafter of the Declaration of Independence, Founder of the University of Virginia
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Here are some more relevant Jefferson quotes:

If people let government decide what foods they eat and
what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in
as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under
tyranny.

Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can
prevent the government from wasting the labors of the
people under the pretense of taking care of them.

Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.

Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826),
letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from
those who are willing to work and give to those who would
not.

“To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions is a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy.”
 
Some others by one of TJ's contemporaries:

“We must wear old clothes, and put patch on patch, and not be ashamed, provided we owe nothing, though we may not be dressed in the fashion, there is no better fashion, than to be out of debt.”
John Randolph of Roanoke on the tariff bill, 1828.

“If I must have a master, let him be one with epaulettes, something I can fear and respect, something I can look up to – but not a master with a quill behind his ear.”
John Randolph of Roanoke, 1828
 
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I like TJ! Here are a couple of my favs!

"We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country."

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. "
 
All I can say is what great quotes from a great man Thomas Jefferson. His ability to see where this country could go to is amazing. Thomas Jefferson will never be consider a great president by the modern media or the country as a hole.
 
All I can say is what great quotes from a great man Thomas Jefferson. His ability to see where this country could go to is amazing. Thomas Jefferson will never be consider a great president by the modern media or the country as a hole.

I have no reason to believe he was a "great" president. Okay or pretty good maybe, but not great. But he was a great writer.

Take away the Louisiana Purchase, the acquisition of which violated his own stated principles of government, and there was nothing all that remarkable done by his administration. But that was one heckuva real estate deal.
 
I have no reason to believe he was a "great" president. Okay or pretty good maybe, but not great. But he was a great writer.

Take away the Louisiana Purchase, the acquisition of which violated his own stated principles of government, and there was nothing all that remarkable done by his administration. But that was one heckuva real estate deal.
Remarkable presidents preside over remarkable times. No telling how great he might have been because he was never tested...
 
I have no reason to believe he was a "great" president. Okay or pretty good maybe, but not great. But he was a great writer.

Take away the Louisiana Purchase, the acquisition of which violated his own stated principles of government, and there was nothing all that remarkable done by his administration. But that was one heckuva real estate deal.
John Randolph of Roanoke and the Tertium Quids broke with Jefferson over the issue of the embargo, which the Quids thought was bad policy.

As to the constitutionality of the Louisiana Purchase, I have no constitutional problems with the Purchase. It was a treaty, approved by the Senate. It was a quid pro quo, money to land (1/3 of a continent, actually). It entailed no substantive change to the Constitution. (Once the check cleared, the deal was closed). There were no entanglements.
I find the Federalist arguments against the Purchase to be ludicrous and disingenuous, much like Federalists themselves.
 
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Another Jefferson quote:

Hey Sally, got a minute.
Never proven. The DNA research proved two things:
1. Someone with the mitochondrial DNA of the Jefferson family fathered several of the Hemings children. Other candidates exist beside Jefferson. Jefferson, in his Notes on Virginia, specifically condemned black-white miscegenation, but endorsed white-Indian racial mixing.
2. The last of the Hemings children could not have been fathered by Jefferson (or any other male from the Jefferson clan).

What is much more interesting in this debate, is the reasons why modern historians or political figures want the Jefferson-Hemings story to be true. Why?

The Jefferson-Hemings Scholars Commission (including the University of Alabama's Forrest McDonald) examined the evidence, and concluded that the Jefferson-Hemings evidence absolutely does not prove the existence of an affair, and circumstantial evidence indicates that Jefferson did not have an affair with Sally Hemings.
Jefferson-Hemings Scholars Commission
 
Remarkable presidents preside over remarkable times. No telling how great he might have been because he was never tested...

Not always true. Perhaps our best evidence that Teddy Roosevelt was a great (imo our greatest) president is that he was president during unremarkable times. He had no world war, no civil war, no great depression, no cold war, no birth of a nation. Yet he is still on everybody's Top 5 list of presidents. Tells you something right there.
 
Not always true. Perhaps our best evidence that Teddy Roosevelt was a great (imo our greatest) president is that he was president during unremarkable times. He had no world war, no civil war, no great depression, no cold war, no birth of a nation. Yet he is still on everybody's Top 5 list of presidents. Tells you something right there.

He was my favorite president because he was my favorite personality in a president, but he wouldn't even make my top 10 of best presidents...
 
"The ten miles square [District of Columbia] would be the asylum of the base, idle, avaricious and ambitious."
"Cato," New York Journal, 22 November 1787.


"Cato" appears to have been quite prescient.
 
I like TJ! Here are a couple of my favs!

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. "

True that mere religion practiced by anyone, including only professing Christians, can be void of value or worse. However, Biblical Christianity, practiced by born-again believers in accordance with the Word of God, most importantly delivers from hell as well as provides genuine benefit in this life.

Here is another by Mr. Jefferson: "The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty...students' perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands." Though not a believer, Mr. Jefferson obviously had some respect for the Scriptures.

Pluck and Grit said:
Not always true. Perhaps our best evidence that Teddy Roosevelt was a great (imo our greatest) president is that he was president during unremarkable times. He had no world war, no civil war, no great depression, no cold war, no birth of a nation. Yet he is still on everybody's Top 5 list of presidents. Tells you something right there.

Here are a couple of quotes by Mr. Roosevelt:

"A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education."

“If there is any place on earth where earthly distinctions vanish it is in the church, in the presence of God. The nearer the people get to the heart of Christ, the nearer they get to each other, irrespective of earthly conditions.”
 
"It was not the mere amount of the duty on stamps, or tea that America opposed, they were considered as signals of approaching despotism, as precedents whereon the superstructure of arbitrary sway was to be reared. ... It is only by gradual and imperceptible degrees that nations have hitherto been enslaved."
"Centinel," 29 December 1787
 
Sen. Richard Shelby spoke to a small group at Pell City, City Hall on Friday afternoon. I couldn't help but think of the Jefferson quotes on this thread about public debt as Sen Shelby commented that the US became $1 trillion in debt for the first time about 1982. It basically took a bit over 200 years for this to happen. 27 years later, we're about $12 trillion in debt. I lean right but I couldn't help but think that of those 27 years, all but 8 had a Republican in the White House.
 
Sen. Richard Shelby spoke to a small group at Pell City, City Hall on Friday afternoon. I couldn't help but think of the Jefferson quotes on this thread about public debt as Sen Shelby commented that the US became $1 trillion in debt for the first time about 1982. It basically took a bit over 200 years for this to happen. 27 years later, we're about $12 trillion in debt. I lean right but I couldn't help but think that of those 27 years, all but 8 had a Republican in the White House.

This country is doomed, it will never survive. And to think what my 2 grandbabies have to look forward to. I think I will get drunk.:(
 
Sen. Richard Shelby spoke to a small group at Pell City, City Hall on Friday afternoon. I couldn't help but think of the Jefferson quotes on this thread about public debt as Sen Shelby commented that the US became $1 trillion in debt for the first time about 1982. It basically took a bit over 200 years for this to happen. 27 years later, we're about $12 trillion in debt. I lean right but I couldn't help but think that of those 27 years, all but 8 had a Republican in the White House.
A common mistake.
Americans tend to personalize the government in the person of the President.
The President is not all-powerful, certainly not when when it comes to the budget. In fact, by himself, he can do absolutely nothing.
The legislature, on the other hand, can adopt a budget over the President's objection.
Which party controlled controlled Congress during those 27 years and what happened when either party controlled it? Answer that question, and you are well on your way to understanding the problem.
 
"It was not the mere amount of the duty on stamps, or tea that America opposed, they were considered as signals of approaching despotism, as precedents whereon the superstructure of arbitrary sway was to be reared. ... It is only by gradual and imperceptible degrees that nations have hitherto been enslaved."
"Centinel," 29 December 1787
the root of the problem is the loose interpretation of the constitution as a living breathing document and the courts not upholding their oath to honor the constitution. lets get the tea party started. obama loves america like oj loved nicole.
 
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