Question: Electric Cars

[CrimsonCT]

2012 Tesla Model S

Acceleration: 0-60mph in 5.6 sec
Top Speed: 120 mph
Range: 160, 230, or 300 miles before charge
Price: ~$50,000

The range depends on the size of the battery pack that is purchased, and all accommodate 110V, 220V and 440V outlets. It can be charged in as little as 45 minutes using the latter option. Also, Tesla estimates that the cost of gas vs. electricity plus the lack of typical engine maintenance for today's combustion engines over the life of the car make the asking price equivalent to the cost of a $35,000 non-hybrid vehicle.

So what's not to like? Good looks, great performance, and a competitive price for such new technologies. (I didn't mention the 17" touchscreen panel or included 3G connectivity) I see these Tesla dealerships pretty often out here in Cali and drive past a random Roadster every day or so. I remember most on UA's campus turning their noses up at hybrids vehicles and their "pansy-ish" look/performance, and I'm wondering how far that stigma extends. This brand seems to be fairly well-adopted in the bay area, but I'm curious what reservations, if any, y'all might have to owning an electric vehicle such as this.

 

[ValuJet]

Good post CT. That is a sharp looking car. I would not have any reservations about owning this car. Honestly, though, outside of the trendiness of it, for people on limited incomes who need more than any to save money on fuel prices, at $50,000+ this one is out of reach.

But it's a start.

 

[Jon]

You know a Tesla factory is being built in Palo Alto?

Tesla to open new factory in heart of Silicon Valley - 19 Aug 2009 - BusinessGreen.com

I think you will be seeing plenty of them all over town.

I for one love it. I actually will probably buy one, though a year to 18 months out on the used market. I figure plenty of people will buy them to have the cool new thing and then dump them because they don't really fit their lifestyle or can't afford it. Fit's my lifestyle perfectly, working from home, driver less than 5k miles a year. I get a great car and let someone else take the depreciation hit.

J

 

[swoop10]

2012 Tesla Model S

Acceleration: 0-60mph in 5.6 sec
Top Speed: 120 mph
Range: 160, 230, or 300 miles before charge
Price: ~$50,000

The range depends on the size of the battery pack that is purchased, and all accommodate 110V, 220V and 440V outlets. It can be charged in as little as 45 minutes using the latter option. Also, Tesla estimates that the cost of gas vs. electricity plus the lack of typical engine maintenance for today's combustion engines over the life of the car make the asking price equivalent to the cost of a $35,000 non-hybrid vehicle.

So what's not to like? Good looks, great performance, and a competitive price for such new technologies. (I didn't mention the 17" touchscreen panel or included 3G connectivity) I see these Tesla dealerships pretty often out here in Cali and drive past a random Roadster every day or so. I remember most on UA's campus turning their noses up at hybrids vehicles and their "pansy-ish" look/performance, and I'm wondering how far that stigma extends. This brand seems to be fairly well-adopted in the bay area, but I'm curious what reservations, if any, y'all might have to owning an electric vehicle such as this.

That is a nice looking car and all of the performance stats look good but how long will the batteries last. They are very expensive and I would hate to pay 50K for a car, not have it paid for and then have to spend another 20k on new batteries. I just don't think electric is the way to go. Maybe if you want to spend that much money to have a vehicle to drive around town or relatively close to town but not for driving long distances. There are answers out there and if the gov would stop setting all of these crazy standards and let the car companies figure out which is the best, we will get our answer.

 

[Relayer]

Great looking car.

As Swoop said, though, there is a lot more to know about it before deciding what's not to like. In any case, I'm not going to lay out anywhere near $50,000 for a car.

 

[RammerJammer14]

Not bad, on the surface anyways. I'm sure there is some critical drawback.

Not viable for me though, I travel too much, farther than 300 miles, and I wouldn't like wasting time looking for an outlet station then waiting "as little as" 45 minutes to use my car again. Sounds like a good around town car though.

 

[rhYno]

Price: ~$50,000

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sGJG9eNRs0]YouTube - Sound-Effects - Warning Buzzer[/ame]

 

[CrimsonCT]

Good post CT. That is a sharp looking car. I would not have any reservations about owning this car. Honestly, though, outside of the trendiness of it, for people on limited incomes who need more than any to save money on fuel prices, at $50,000+ this one is out of reach.

But it's a start.

Well keep in mind that this is basically meant as a luxury sports sedan, and will complete in that class. So the question isn't so much whether you'd personally sink $50,000 in this thing, but if you'd throw your money at this car rather than, say, an M3 or S4. People I've talked with seem to be divided 50/50 on this, and the ones who would choose the Audi base their decision on the "sex factor" that stems from reputations of the German and Japanese luxury sport markets. Not quality, mind you, but prestige.

Like you said, though, it's a start. I'm hoping that offerings such as these begin to make electric vehicles more palatable to the image-obsessed consumer. The market for electric vehicles is expanding and the products will fill every price range and need. Cars like the Volt will be perfect for those who drive less than 40 miles each day, but the 3.5L Altima might seem the sexier pick for a similar cost. So I was more trying to gauge whether people still generally repel from the stigma of the electric car, no matter price point.

You know a Tesla factory is being built in Palo Alto?

Tesla to open new factory in heart of Silicon Valley - 19 Aug 2009 - BusinessGreen.com

I think you will be seeing plenty of them all over town.

I for one love it. I actually will probably buy one, though a year to 18 months out on the used market. I figure plenty of people will buy them to have the cool new thing and then dump them because they don't really fit their lifestyle or can't afford it. Fit's my lifestyle perfectly, working from home, driver less than 5k miles a year. I get a great car and let someone else take the depreciation hit.

J

Cool article. There's already a Tesla dealership about 5 minutes from campus, so one of my goals is to test drive a Roadster once I get a spare moment... and the nerve to take the reins on a $100k machine.

If I were in the market and had the cash, this would be near the top of my list. Or for something less practical but cheaper than a Roadster, the Fisker Karma.

That is a nice looking car and all of the performance stats look good but how long will the batteries last. They are very expensive and I would hate to pay 50K for a car, not have it paid for and then have to spend another 20k on new batteries.

The batteries are supposed to last 100,000 miles before replacement, but this is definitely a valid concern. One can assume that Li-ion costs will continue to decrease, but who can predict how much the battery cost will drop in 3-5 years. Will the price of one battery replacement just end up equaling the cost of 100,000 miles worth of gas? Eventually not, but it's clearly a valid question for now.

Not viable for me though, I travel too much, farther than 300 miles, and I wouldn't like wasting time looking for an outlet station then waiting "as little as" 45 minutes to use my car again. Sounds like a good around town car though.

Another valid concern until the charging infrastructure is put in place. Heck, maybe the whole concept of a filling station would have to change. One could typically recharge at home and perhaps at work, so maybe stores and restaurants should start offering charges in their parking lots for patrons to use while they shop or eat? So instead of pulling off the road for five minutes to grab gas on your long trips, you could just fill up when you stop for food or for the restroom? Issues of convenience will obviously need to be addressed.

 

[AlistarWills]

restaurants etc. will just start charging you for a plug up. And it makes sense. you would be running up their power bill. and someone has to pay the power company for generating all that extra power that will be needed for the electric cars...which means unless they are hydroelectric, they'll pollute more. wait...that makes this a circular problem. if they pollute more then what was the pooint in me buying an electric car? and by polluting more they'll have to pay more to cap n trade so they'll charge more to cover their losses...tell me again how this is all a good idea...
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[ValuJet]

restaurants etc. will just start charging you for a plug up. And it makes sense. you would be running up their power bill. and someone has to pay the power company for generating all that extra power that will be needed for the electric cars...which means unless they are hydroelectric, they'll pollute more. wait...that makes this a circular problem. if they pollute more then what was the pooint in me buying an electric car? and by polluting more they'll have to pay more to cap n trade so they'll charge more to cover their losses...tell me again how this is all a good idea...
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And that's an excellent point too. If anyone thinks for a second that federal, state and local taxes derived from gasoline sales will yield to the greening of the auto industry, think again. We may wean ourselves off of foreign oil, but we will not see relief on taxes.

 

[CrimsonCT]

restaurants etc. will just start charging you for a plug up. And it makes sense. you would be running up their power bill. and someone has to pay the power company for generating all that extra power that will be needed for the electric cars...which means unless they are hydroelectric, they'll pollute more. wait...that makes this a circular problem. if they pollute more then what was the pooint in me buying an electric car? and by polluting more they'll have to pay more to cap n trade so they'll charge more to cover their losses...tell me again how this is all a good idea...
Posted via Mobile Device

I never said the restaurant plug-ins would be free, but the cost would presumably be minimal compared to current gas prices.

Two points in response to the generation of electrical power:
(1) The efficiency of generating electricity from coal mines, transporting it to an outlet and using it in your car is about 34%, while refining crude oil, transporting it to stations and combusting it in your car is only 14% efficient. Link. So if everyone just up and switched to electric cars and we continued to burn fossil fuels for that energy, vehicle emissions would still be cut by 150% just due to the more efficient processing.
(2) Electricity doesn't have to be generated by burning fossil fuels, but the transfer to nuclear or solar or wind is really a completely separate issue. Since the huge efficiency drop in electric cars comes from a 60% energy loss at coal mines, replacing this aging infrastructure would significantly boost energy efficiency of electric cars--potentially to ~90%. But one step at a time, and electric cars will definitely still be a compatible technology once we move on to tackle this problem.

 

[bamacon]

restaurants etc. will just start charging you for a plug up. And it makes sense. you would be running up their power bill. and someone has to pay the power company for generating all that extra power that will be needed for the electric cars...which means unless they are hydroelectric, they'll pollute more. wait...that makes this a circular problem. if they pollute more then what was the pooint in me buying an electric car? and by polluting more they'll have to pay more to cap n trade so they'll charge more to cover their losses...tell me again how this is all a good idea...
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Exactly. You have to wonder just how bright the greeners are. Sometimes I think they believe energy comes from the same magical land that unicorns come from. Electric cars would crash our grid. Many of the bigger cities are on the verge of collapse if Congress doesn't rethink oil, nuclear, and coal powerplants.

 

[Bama4Ever831]

Exactly. You have to wonder just how bright the greeners are. Sometimes I think they believe energy comes from the same magical land that unicorns come from

Another day, another less than intelligent post from you. No one has ever said these things. You are trying to induce people to think like you by stretching the truth.

 

[NYBamaFan]

Another day, another less than intelligent post from you. No one has ever said these things. You are trying to induce people to think like you by stretching the truth.

Not that he wants or needs me coming to his defense but, when launching a personal attack, you could at least include a complete quote. The part that you left out was a very valid concern. The power grids are on the verge of collapse, and many parts of America struggle to provide enough electricity during peak usage periods.

Electric cars that put more pressure on that system before it is upgraded might be a huge mistake. If we are moving in this direction, these issues need to be corrected NOW!

 

[Bama4Ever831]

Not that he wants or needs me coming to his defense but, when launching a personal attack, you could at least include a complete quote. The part that you left out was a very valid concern. The power grids are on the verge of collapse, and many parts of America struggle to provide enough electricity during peak usage periods.

Electric cars that put more pressure on that system before it is upgraded might be a huge mistake. If we are moving in this direction, these issues need to be corrected NOW!

I know his second point is a legitimate concern. I had nothing more to add on that idea. However, unnecessarily calling out "greenies," is also very aggressive. There was no reason to do that at all.

 

[BamaSC]

So the question isn't so much whether you'd personally sink $50,000 in this thing, but if you'd throw your money at this car rather than, say, an M3 or S4.

No, although if you can find a new M3 for $50k let me know :wink: I guess I'm a dinasaur or a hopeless petrol-head...I like real cars.

I'm also very skeptical about Tesla's claim of 300 miles on a charge and 45 minute recharges. Watch Top Gear's episode on the Tesla roadster and see how well it fared against Tesla's claims (it didn't come close). Will be interesting to see the reviews.

 

[swoop10]

I know his second point is a legitimate concern. I had nothing more to add on that idea. However, unnecessarily calling out "greenies," is also very aggressive. There was no reason to do that at all.

Sorry but his view on the greenies is spot on. Name something that they have done that has helped the people. Look what they did with paper bags. Making us go to plastic and now they hate plastic. The whole reason we have to depend on foreign oil is because of the greenies. In California the greenies have stopped water from going to the farms because of a minnow. Most of these greenies are a bunch of nuts who care more about animals than people.

 

[RammerJammer14]

No, although if you can find a new M3 for $50k let me know :wink: I guess I'm a dinasaur or a hopeless petrol-head...I like real cars.

I'm also very skeptical about Tesla's claim of 300 miles on a charge and 45 minute recharges. Watch Top Gear's episode on the Tesla roadster and see how well it fared against Tesla's claims (it didn't come close). Will be interesting to see the reviews.

Top Gear is an amazing show, those guys crack me up!

 

[AlistarWills]

restaurants etc. will just start charging you for a plug up. And it makes sense. you would be running up their power bill. and someone has to pay the power company for generating all that extra power that will be needed for the electric cars...which means unless they are hydroelectric, they'll pollute more. wait...that makes this a circular problem. if they pollute more then what was the pooint in me buying an electric car? and by polluting more they'll have to pay more to cap n trade so they'll charge more to cover their losses...tell me again how this is all a good idea...
Posted via Mobile Device

Another thought I had. What happens when the batteries begin to see the end of their life? Don't they have something like a 5 yr life span? Someone told me that the batteries in these electric cars are not able to be recycled and are much more damaging to the environment than lead batteries. (I'm taking that with a grain of salt and am looking for that info.)

 

[Bamaro]

Sorry but his view on the greenies is spot on. Name something that they have done that has helped the people. Look what they did with paper bags. Making us go to plastic and now they hate plastic. The whole reason we have to depend on foreign oil is because of the greenies. In California the greenies have stopped water from going to the farms because of a minnow. Most of these greenies are a bunch of nuts who care more about animals than people.

Cleaner air and water.
"Greenies' did not force us from paper to plastic. Plastic is much cheaper to make, thats why we have it.

EC's are an emerging technology. Once the issue of better batteries is solved they will become economically viable. True the grid needs to be greatly improved but in the mean time we can get by by doing most of the recharging during off hours when excess capacity is available.