Regarding the self-executing precedure - deeming something as passed without actually voting on it - that Pelosi has proposed ...... refresh my memory on where the GOP used this. I know this was on on resolutions (which the president doesn't sign). Was this done with congressional bills? Has this ever been done with a major piece of legislation? Certainly Obamacare is rivaled only by things such as the New Deal and Great Society. Surely, everyone agrees that something this groundbreaking be voted on properly.
Will Obamacare become law this week?
- Thread starter Bodhisattva
- Start date
The bill is over 2000 pages. What does that tell you. All kinds of loop holes to deny people who really need and deserve health care.
And loop hole for the insurance companies to rape the taxpayer for money.
I work in the medical industry. If this passes. No matter who you are , just wait to see how long the you will have to wait to see a MD.
Why is it 2000 pages. The government will form another division like the IRS to oversee it.
How much money can one black man spend. You would think he won the power ball.
Also the least of anyone problem should be abortion. I think the conservatives who are against it should donate 10 bucks a week to the orphanages, unwed mothers, and adoption agencies. I am a conservative, and adopted a beautiful girl at birth. But you have no right to tell a mother what to do. Thats between her and god.
Someone tell me what the 2000 pages is about. No way if your a person voting on the bill read the document in a week. Thats when Huessin wants it to be voted on one week.
And loop hole for the insurance companies to rape the taxpayer for money.
I work in the medical industry. If this passes. No matter who you are , just wait to see how long the you will have to wait to see a MD.
Why is it 2000 pages. The government will form another division like the IRS to oversee it.
How much money can one black man spend. You would think he won the power ball.
Also the least of anyone problem should be abortion. I think the conservatives who are against it should donate 10 bucks a week to the orphanages, unwed mothers, and adoption agencies. I am a conservative, and adopted a beautiful girl at birth. But you have no right to tell a mother what to do. Thats between her and god.
Someone tell me what the 2000 pages is about. No way if your a person voting on the bill read the document in a week. Thats when Huessin wants it to be voted on one week.
Well, from you, I'll take that as a compliment. If you don't like what I have to say, I must be on the right track. :biggrin:
I am past arguing this - but suffice to say that our healthcare system has been very broken for a very long time, and the DNC has tried many times to get the votes to makes corrections without going to a public solution. Because the GOP has protected the industry from reform for decades (acting like the Democrats act toward SS reform), the democrats have decided to act while they have both the legislative and executive branches. So, blame the democrats for doing what they have been promising their constituants for 20+ years that they would do if you wish. But, as a former Republican, I blame the GOP. They had many chances to work with the DNC and scoffed at the very notion that the healthcare system needed reform. The chickens have come home to roost.
I heard a Republican congressman talking about this last week. I don't remember the bills, but they were minor. Still...
Agreed - I am glad that a few people have already decided to test the constitutionality of the procedure if this passes. Frankly, I would like to see them test it anyway against one of the previous bills.
Even the GOP leadership has agreed that their ideas were really attempts to block and stall. Early in Obama's term the GOP decided to break his administration on this issue the way that the Democrats broke GWB on the SS reform issue.
I admit to carrying the libs water on this issue. I do not support this bill, though. This bill is a piece of crap and does not address my concerns with our healthcare system. However, my hope is that it will force the GOP to begin actively working with the DNC. That will not happen unless this passes.
The problem with this line of thinking is you seem to think that the GOP is the only side that won't work with the other. The DNC has kept the Republicans out of the loop during this whole deal. This whole thing has been the most underhanded deal I have seen. The lies, the backroom deals, and bribes are unreal. I know some will just say that this is just politics but this is politics to an extreme.
Have you listened to some of the lies that Obama has told about all the people dying without healthcare? Just this last trip he brought up a woman with breast cancer who couldn't afford insurance. She is worried about losing her house, well atleast that is the story he told. Now the truth to the story is she is getting treatment at the Cleveland Clinic for free. They get money for charity cases inwhich she is. She won't lose her house and she is getting treated for her cancer. There are plenty of other examples but I hope you get the point, if there are so many people hurting from this then why can't he find one of these stories to tell us instead of lying to us? Just asking.:conf2:
So are you saying that there is not a problem with our current healthcare system? Are you saying that there aren't people out there dying because they do not have healthcare insurance?
Link regarding the woman in Obama's speech, moderately entertaining for some of the quotes from hospital admin, including the classic, "It appears that I think she'll be fine".
No, I'm not saying there aren't problems with our healthcare system, but there aren't 2000 pages worth of problems. There people out there dying with health insurance, people die. That is just the way it is and this bill won't change it. The people dying because they don't have insurance please tell me how they aren't getting healthcare. Medicaid covers the poor and Medicare covers the elderly. The people in between are making choices and to choose to not get insurance isn't something I think I should have to pay for. If you need me to give you examples of these people who can't afford insurance but can smoke 2 packs of cigerettes a day or drink a 12 pack a day or can get cable or satellite or flat panel tv's. These are all choices and so is insurance. Make the wrong one and pay the price.
What is broken is peoples' perceptions of what they are entitled to.
Health care is not a right.
Health care is not a right.
Well, how many pages of problems are there? Are there people who currently abuse the system? Sure. There are also people who are worthy of additional assistance who are getting crushed by the system. And here's a newsflash--having Medicaid doesn't guarantee prompt medical care--many doctors do not accept Medicaid patients, forcing people to use ERs as a source of primary healthcare, which strains resources and wastes money.
As for the people in between who don't have healthcare? In many cases, they can't afford it. It is a touch pricey, particularly if you have to get it on your own.
Health insurance is set up to encourage people to abuse the system. It's like we've paid $10 at the door for the buffet, so of course we want to make sure we consume more than $10 worth of food. And when everyone does this the price goes up. And then Obama and other demagogues act suprised and yell at the industry for raising prices.
But, adding a lot of people to the buffet line who can't pay is not going to bring down prices. Quite the contrary. Either prices for the "steaks" at the buffet are going way up, or everyone will get "bologna sandwiches" and still pay "steak" prices.
Why don't you answer your own question? I don't think it is anywhere nearly as broken as it would take for 2k+ pages to fix, do you? These people worthy of more assistance, well just how much should we have to give before they are expected to stand on their own feet? I'll ask you the same question I asked in another thread. How many of these so called poor people's houses have you been in? I have been in many and all of the examples I gave are spot on plus some. When will everybody in this country have to uphold their end of the bargain? You guys on the left always want to talk about fairness but why is it fair for me to have to pay someone else's rent, buy their food, pay them a salary, pay for their childcare, and now you think I should pay for their health insurance. All of this while they have and do all of the things I talked about in my earlier post.
If Medicaid isn't the answer then do you honestly think the government will comeup with something better? It amazes me that some think the government will do anything better.
I am not crazy about the bill either, but I am glad that it is going to pass. But we need a starting point. It is kind of like the Patriot Act, which wasn't perfect in it's first version, but is a pretty strong bill after a few adjustments.
Personally, I would like to see a voluntary public option. As in the doctor's decide whether or not to accept people on it. In return for a doctor volunteering, they would receive would receive some decent malpractice protection. Who knows? You might even have some true bipartisan support for that.
IMO, this would setup a situation where every good doctor stayed out of that system and bad doctors would jump in. Why would good doctors join in when they wouldn't be paid as well and have to do more paperwork?
This. The American workers and businesses can't continue absorbing the cost of rising healthcare costs. Something has to be done. At least the Democrats are willing to do something. I'm really tired of the GOP not offering real alternatives or change.
Yeah, that is great. We have to do something. Who cares if what we do is good or bad, just so we do something? This sentiment is going to drive this country futher into the ground. Sad, plain and simple.
Right now its the uninsured that pay (or are billed) the most. Its very common for me to receive a report from BC&BS showing an 'amount charged' amount 2 or 3 times higher than the 'amount allowed' and there are no shortage of docs willing to accept BC&BS rates.
Yeah, that is great. We have to do something. Who cares if what we do is good or bad, just so we do something? This sentiment is going to drive this country futher into the ground. Sad, plain and simple.
So our current path works just fine? Is that really what you think? That's what sad.
Then again that goes along with GOP thinking "Let's not come up with any solutions. We'll just point out how wrong their solution is".
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