Gun Control Thread -- (Pros and Cons) -- Aftermath of Connecticut Shooting

[cbi1972]

hahahahaha

 

[seebell]

Here is my assault rifle. M-1 Carbine. I have some 30 round banana clips. Nice inexpensive weapon.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Here is my rifle. M-1 Carbine. I have some 30 round banana magazines. Nice inexpensive weapon.

FIFY

Good rifle, but it doesn't use clips like it's big brother. And it's not select fire, unless you paid a fortune for it.

 

[crimsonaudio]

hahahahaha

I don't know how he kept a straight face!

 

[mikes12]

If home invasions got the same media coverage this stuff gets, everyone would soon be armed.

 

[seebell]

FIFY

Good rifle, but it doesn't use clips like it's big brother. And it's not select fire, unless you paid a fortune for it.

Magazines it is. No it's semi auto. The full auto is the M-2. I bought it a a pistol/pawn shop about 25 years ago. I think for $100

 

[crimsonaudio]

I bought it a a pistol/pawn shop about 25 years ago. I think for $100

Serious bargain, service grade M1s sell for $600 now. Fantastic rifle.

 

[NationalTitles18]

In this instance you are right, given what information has been released, he had the means and the ability to perform this without even going into the system at all. However, could there have been more done to potentially flag that he was considering something like this? I have never advocated stopping the sale of firearms. I do think however there are some things that could be done to ensure that people who are exhibiting signs of mental illness could be investigated in some manner.

To assume that I know what that thing may be, would be presumptuous. Yet there are some things that could potentially be used to try and build a profile of what people who go off the rails do before they carry out an attack. Again, I don't think that there is any magic solution, but to discount the possibility that some measure of regulation could even save one life before analysis has been done is an awful callous position.

As an example:
Lets say that by data mining and watching for trends, it is seen that people who consider performing acts like this typically visit a gun store and purchase extended magazines and usually buy or attempt to buy at least one AR platform firearm. Currently there is no means of tracking magazine sales, and the system that performs the background check does not contain history of the purchaser. If someone came up with a system that said if only we tracked those sorts of things we could prevent 20% of these incidents, the backlash would be huge. Not because you couldn't buy those items any more but because the government would have that data stored. Even if some numbers genius figured out that this system had a 90% accuracy rate, the chance that it would ever get implemented is still somewhere between zero and none.

Caveat: This is by no means a fleshed out example or even something that has the remotest possibility of working. It is merely an example of something that could possibly be considered to help but would immediately get no traction.

People with your thought process scare me.

 

[CrimsonJag]

OK, there's literally zero chance guns are going to be completely banned in the US. Zero.

Here's a great article: http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...risk. Excellent read and thanks for sharing.

 

[Crimson Speed]

Are those military firearms or rifles that look "menacing?"

These are rifles that look menacing. Military rifles look almost identical, but they typically have a switch that allows full automatic fire (one pull and hold of the trigger will cause multiple rounds to fire until you release the trigger). The rifles in the pictures, I believe , are Bushmaster brand. The key here is that these are not automatic, only semi automatic guns. Semi automatics have been available to the general public for many, many years, in the form of shotguns, and traditional wood stock rifles. Millions of semi auto pistols are owned by Americans. But, for some reason, the gun haters take offense at the appearance of these AR series rifles because they are black and look mean. Truth is, they are no different in performance than other semi autos with wood stocks.

 

[jthomas666]

These are rifles that look menacing. Military rifles look almost identical, but they typically have a switch that allows full automatic fire (one pull and hold of the trigger will cause multiple rounds to fire until you release the trigger). The rifles in the pictures, I believe , are Bushmaster brand. The key here is that these are not automatic, only semi automatic guns. Semi automatics have been available to the general public for many, many years, in the form of shotguns, and traditional wood stock rifles. Millions of semi auto pistols are owned by Americans. But, for some reason, the gun haters take offense at the appearance of these AR series rifles because they are black and look mean. Truth is, they are no different in performance than other semi autos with wood stocks.

A description of the Kill-o-Zap pistol from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy springs to mind:

The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with.'

It's basically the same reason that the earlier assault weapon ban was such a mess--no good definition of what constitutes an "assault rifle"

 

[Rasputin]

Had a friend call me this evening. He works at Dick's sporting goods and said that they were told by their manager due to a "corporate email" to immediately stop selling any and all Assault Rifle's and to remove them from their shelves.

WOW!

 

[NationalTitles18]

Had a friend call me this evening. He works at Dick's sporting goods and said that they were told by their manager due to a "corporate email" to immediately stop selling any and all Assault Rifle's and to remove them from their shelves.

WOW!

Translation: Don't buy from Dick's.

 

[uafan4life]

Had a friend call me this evening. He works at Dick's sporting goods and said that they were told by their manager due to a "corporate email" to immediately stop selling any and all Assault Rifle's and to remove them from their shelves.

WOW!

That should be easy since Dick's doesn't sell any Assault Rifles! :biggrin:


Of course, Dick's may have an internal "definition" of what is an "Assault Rifle" separate from official, military definition.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

As an avid firearms enthusiast and one who carries a handgun much of the time, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this over the years. We have a unique set of circumstances here in the States that makes it virtually impossible to look at solutions other countries have taken to combat violence combined with firearms, and it's worth noting some of those differences and what they mean.

The biggest issue we face in the US regarding the use of firearms in violent acts is the way firearms are woven into our social structure. The US is a country that really wouldn't have existed without firearms, and in fact the very first battle of the Revolutionary War was over gun control - the Brits wanted our firearms, we resisted and the rest is history. This was recognized by the founding fathers to be of such importance that it is specifically enumerated in our Constitution. This could be changed, of course, but Pandora's Box is already open, and has been open for several hundred years here. No one (not even the government) has any idea how many firearms are in the US (legal or otherwise), though it's estimated that there are more guns than people, which leads to the next point - if you took extreme measures and literally outlawed ownership of ALL firearms, would the criminals and the hardcore gun owners obey? The answer, of course, is no - they would not. At that point we have who knows how many firearms in the hands of criminals who now know that the entire country is a 'gun free zone'. That's not an answer.

So if you start considering gun control options, what works? Little, honestly. CT is ranked by the Brady Center as having the 4th strongest gun control laws in the US, but we now know this murderer killed his mom and stole her legally owned firearms - she was legal, he broke the law (murder, theft) and armed himself then committed this atrocious act.

The reality is outside of even more aggressive background checks, there's little that can be done. If no more guns were sold in the US starting *now*, there are still hundreds of millions of firearms in this country already, and I suspect more are smuggled in every day.

People get emotional in the aftermath of these terrible shootings, that's completely understandable. The frustrating part is when they then go after an inanimate object as if that's the blame, because introspection and dealing with the actual societal issues is far more troubling and difficult.

Very good analysis and I agree. Gun control as it's practiced in the other developed countries is impossible here - simply too late. I also got my first gun, a .410 single shot H&R shotgun at 12 and my dad embarked me on a rigorous course of study in gun safety, not to mention how to hunt. I have several guns in the house right now. All of this said, there has been enormous acceleration in percentage of gun ownership, particularly handguns over the last half century or so. I was at UA from 1957 until 1963. One kid I knew had a handgun, and he was considered a bit of a nut. The gun was a Ruger .44 Magnum single action revolver. Don't believe for a moment that I was naive or just not plugged in. Had there been many more, I would have known. If you had asked the typical male student if he had a handgun, you would have received the "Are you crazy" look before you got an answer. Now, the majority of us had long guns back home, mostly shotguns, some rifles. In fact, back then, the majority of us grew up hunting. Also, handguns were insanely expensive, compared to the typical student's means and budget. In the intervening half century or so, there have been some seismic shifts, but I think you would have to have been alive (and conscious) during that period to observe the changes. I wonder how many have perceived them...

 

[Bamafaninco1]

Things are getting crazy with knee jerk reactions to this. The Discovery Chanel has cancelled a show, American Guns, because a bunch of people went to the web page and demanded it be cancelled because of what happened in Conn. And some private equity firm is selling it's stake in Bushmaster cause they make guns. People need to step back and breath.

 

[Rasputin]

That should be easy since Dick's doesn't sell any Assault Rifles! :biggrin:


Of course, Dick's may have an internal "definition" of what is an "Assault Rifle" separate from official, military definition.

I'm just telling you what he called and told me. He then said, "got to go, we have to take these [explitive] guns off the shelves."

However you want to classify them as, they were removed and told not to sell them anymore, per corporate demands.

 

[tidefan26]

Having had a Federal Firearms Licence for more than 10 years, I can tell you that although there is no official firearms registry, as soon as the weapon is machined and has a serial number, they are tracked all the way to the first private owner, ie must be physically logged into a special book. That book and if unsold firearm, must be produced on demand to the BATFE for inspection at their choosing. So until they are purchased by the first private owner, there IS a national registry of firearms.

Second, anyone who buys a gun from an FFL or retailer DOES go through a background check. Period. Anyone who says otherwise either doesn't know what they are talking about or has an agenda. The background check is provided and executed by the BATFE, either by electronic correspondence or telephone. The decision usually only takes a few minutes if all is well.

Third, the SO called gun show loop hole is total bull. There is no such thing. Its a private citizen selling private goods to other private citizens. Its no different than selling through the want ads in the paper. None. You cant stop it or regulate it.

Fourth, people who keep talking about automatic weapons here and there are uninformed. Unless you are getting it smuggled in from Mexico or have around 20-30k to spend, you arent getting one. To say that these weapons are HIGHLY regulated would be an understatement. Also, they no longer manufacture automatic weapons for the general public. The NFA of 86 outlawed ALL new manufacture of FA weapons for the general public. Everyone of those manufactured before the ban were required to be registered with the government and grandfathered in, or deemed illlegal.

 

[CrimsonChuck]

Third, the SO called gun show loop hole is total bull. There is no such thing. Its a private citizen selling private goods to other private citizens. Its no different than selling through the want ads in the paper. None. You cant stop it or regulate it.

So a private citizen can legally sell anything they way to a private citizen without regulation? Cocaine, sex, a nuclear bomb?

 

[Bamaro]

No one should be able to buy any sort of gun from anyplace without first passing a meaningful background test.