Defending the HUNH

[TidePride50]

Our scheme is hinged on top notch DB play. Unfortunately, we didn't have that this year.

This.


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[TexasRed]

After mulling it over overnight, I'm convinced that a scheme change is unnecessary - it's all about having the right (experienced) players.

Our secondary has certainly been shakier this year than in recent ones, but with more and more offenses utilizing mobile qb's and reverting to essentially the wing-t, we've got to adapt somewhere up front. Obviously, coaches have been scheming at ways to beat Nick's defense since he got us back to the top, and after last year against aTm and the last two weeks against auburn and Oklahoma, it sure seems like there's a bit of a blueprint.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I don't think that's the case. Again, the defense played well, and they weren't 'out-schemed', imo. The secondary was simply a liability - has really been so much of the year. With some experience and perhaps different personnel, we win last night. They carved us up passing in the first half because we weren't pressuring and the secondary couldn't stop it. In the second half, we slowed them down quite a bit offensively, affected the QB, etc., but the secondary still gave up the big plays.

After mulling it over overnight, I'm convinced that a scheme change is unnecessary - it's all about having the right (experienced) players.

It was more than the secondary. When OU decided to run the ball on the edges they were gaining 5 and 6 yards a pop. It was a mirror image of what Auburn was doing. We could not get any type penetration from our DLine.

I agree with the "right players" if you mean a different "type" and "conditioned" player. These oversized 300+ lb Dlinemen are going the way of the rotary phone. It takes too long to dial the number. I think we're going to have to put players on the field who are conditioned and built to not have to play in specialized packages.

 

[imauafan]

I understand your point but your point has to be taken in context of the fact that a game has rules that are supposed to keep competitive balance. Over the years ANYTIME the rules committee thought the defense had a competitive advantage the following year a rule was changed to eliminate it. But the same principle doesn't go the other way. There hasn't been a rule that I can remember implemented due to the offense having a competitive advantage. I think that's the point of disgust.

Unfortunately the rules are the rules and I don't like a lot of the changes but it is what it is. We can't stubbornly hold fast to a smash-mouth philosophy just because that's our favorite way to play football when the rules are geared to a different style of play. The rules aren't going to change back anytime soon and with factors such as head injuries/lawsuits they will only continue to change more to a fast-paced arena style of football. i don't like it but it is what it is. I want Bama to win championships regardles so at some point we're going to have to adapt.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Unfortunately the rules are the rules and I don't like a lot of the changes but it is what it is. We can't stubbornly hold fast to a smash-mouth philosophy just because that's our favorite way to play football when the rules are geared to a different style of play. The rules aren't going to change back anytime soon and with factors such as head injuries/lawsuits they will only continue to change more to a fast-paced arena style of football. i don't like it but it is what it is. I want Bama to win championships regardles so at some point we're going to have to adapt.

I'm not resisting change. Heck, I'm promoting it after last night. I've seen enough for it to convince me. The game has changed (whether I like it or not) and it's not going backwards. In ten/fifteen years we truly may see arena league style play on the NFL and college level. I don't like it because I compare it to when we were kids playing ball in someone's yard and the the kid who's yard we played in kept changing the rules to benefit his team. By the end of all the rule changing it wasn't much of a "game" anymore.

 

[TexasRed]

The game has changed (whether I like it or not) and it's not going backwards. In ten/fifteen years we truly may see arena league style play on the NFL and college level.

I wonder about that. I'm hoping that we'll just see a bit 'market correction' (for lack of a better term), where once defenses re-adapt to the hurryup/spread offense by having more agile and fleeter-of-foot defenders, offenses will go back to smashmouth football using tight ends and fullbacks...

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I wonder about that. I'm hoping that we'll just see a bit 'market correction' (for lack of a better term), where once defenses re-adapt to the hurryup/spread offense by having more agile and fleeter-of-foot defenders, offenses will go back to using tight ends and fullbacks...

Problem is I'm afraid ever changing rules in the name of "player safety" will prevent the ability for teams to go back to a true hard hitting, smash mouth type mentality. I see the game moving toward an Arena League style of play where handing it off to the running back is akin to a full back getting carries in a game.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about the forward pass.....

OK, look, you've posted three times in some seven years of membership, and the only two in recent times have been snarky posts defending Oklahoma. I've never understood opposing fans posting only after victories, but whatever. That said, we've been here discussing this for a long time and you're adding nothing to the discussion, so either add something worthwhile or stop typing.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Problem is I'm afraid ever changing rules in the name of "player safety" will prevent the ability for teams to go back to a true hard hitting, smash mouth type mentality. I see the game moving toward an Arena League style of play where handing it off to the running back is akin to a full back getting carries in a game.

Well, if no one can beat the HUNH gimmick, then yeah, but I suspect a bit leaner defense will help. The defenses will almost certainly catch up, and soon, and it will essentially be the end of HUNH as the speed of the offense is also the Achilles heel if it's stopped - the defense never gets a break.

That said, if somehow the defenses can't catch up and this sort of football is what the future holds, I'll likely watch less and less. I've always enjoyed the 'chess match' of football, and these sorts of gimmicky offenses simply remove that from the game. Not interested in basketball on grass.

 

[tmv85]

I posted this in the thread with Jess's analysis, but this is probably a better place to ask.

I don't keep up with recruiting in terms of how the players we recruit fit our schemes, so this probably sounds like a dumb question, but are the guys we've recruited for defense the prototypical Saban defensive players, or have we recruited guys who will fit into a defense that is geared to stop the HUNH? When I read that we need smaller, faster players, does that mean on the D line, in the secondary, both? Help a football lovin', but rather clueless, gal out!

 

[imauafan]

I wonder about that. I'm hoping that we'll just see a bit 'market correction' (for lack of a better term), where once defenses re-adapt to the hurryup/spread offense by having more agile and fleeter-of-foot defenders, offenses will go back to smashmouth football using tight ends and fullbacks...

I think historically that has been the case but with the potential for billions of dollars in lawsuits because of concussions I'm of the opinion that the rules may not allow that style of play in the future. Plus I think the majority of people today prefer a high-scoring, exciting game and tv ratings will dictate that type of game be the norm. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I don't keep up with recruiting in terms of how the players we recruit fit our schemes, so this probably sounds like a dumb question, but are the guys we've recruited for defense the prototypical Saban defensive players, or have we recruited guys who will fit into a defense that is geared to stop the HUNH? When I read that we need smaller, faster players, does that mean on the D line, in the secondary, both? Help a football lovin', but rather clueless, gal out!

Many of our current recruits appear to be more 'hybrid-like' - a cross between the huge guys CNS has historically brought in and the smaller, quicker guys. I think we need to tweak the overall personnel slightly, not drastically, so from what I've been seeing we're right on target.

I honestly don't understand the hand-wringing by some - we have what many think may be the GOAT as HC, and he's a defensive specialist, so give him time and he'll get it right...

 

[RTRCharlotte]

I'd like to see Kirby work for someone else. He needs broader experience than just Saban.

 

[imauafan]

I'm not resisting change. Heck, I'm promoting it after last night. I've seen enough for it to convince me. The game has changed (whether I like it or not) and it's not going backwards. In ten/fifteen years we truly may see arena league style play on the NFL and college level. I don't like it because I compare it to when we were kids playing ball in someone's yard and the the kid who's yard we played in kept changing the rules to benefit his team. By the end of all the rule changing it wasn't much of a "game" anymore.

I think we're actually saying very similar things but in a different way.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Well, if no one can beat the HUNH gimmick, then yeah, but I suspect a bit leaner defense will help. The defenses will almost certainly catch up, and soon, and it will essentially be the end of HUNH as the speed of the offense is also the Achilles heel if it's stopped - the defense never gets a break.

That said, if somehow the defenses can't catch up and this sort of football is what the future holds, I'll likely watch less and less. I've always enjoyed the 'chess match' of football, and these sorts of gimmicky offenses simply remove that from the game. Not interested in basketball on grass.

That's what I'm thinking we'll move to. Leaner players. Scheme in and of itself isn't the problem but player type maybe. Slimming up a bit and putting a leaner defensive linemen at 295 rather than 310 may be the answer.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Many of our current recruits appear to be more 'hybrid-like' - a cross between the huge guys CNS has historically brought in and the smaller, quicker guys. I think we need to tweak the overall personnel slightly, not drastically, so from what I've been seeing we're right on target.

I honestly don't understand the hand-wringing by some - we have what many think may be the GOAT as HC, and he's a defensive specialist, so give him time and he'll get it right...

You know odds are Saban has realized this a year or so ago and is in the process of making the change. But these type changes simply don't happen over night. Especially when you've got five other recruiting classes already on the team built for a different style of football.

 

[imauafan]

I'd like to see Kirby work for someone else. He needs broader experience than just Saban.

You raise an interesting point and one that I've thought about quite a bit. Would Smart be smart to go somewhere else to escape the perception that he is only running Saban's defense? IMHO, yes, if he wants to land a big-time HC job one day he would be wise to follow a similar path as Malzahn.

 

[RTRCharlotte]

You raise an interesting point and one that I've thought about quite a bit. Would Smart be smart to go somewhere else to escape the perception that he is only running Saban's defense? IMHO, yes, if he wants to land a big-time HC job one day he would be wise to follow a similar path as Malzahn.

And Saban can bring in someone experienced at defending the HUHN

 

[imauafan]

Many of our current recruits appear to be more 'hybrid-like' - a cross between the huge guys CNS has historically brought in and the smaller, quicker guys. I think we need to tweak the overall personnel slightly, not drastically, so from what I've been seeing we're right on target.

I honestly don't understand the hand-wringing by some - we have what many think may be the GOAT as HC, and he's a defensive specialist, so give him time and he'll get it right...

I agree 100%. I posted this on JessN postgame recap thread that our defense isn't that far off and only needs to be tweaked. I'm more concerned with our offense than our defense.

 

[TexasRed]

Problem is I'm afraid ever changing rules in the name of "player safety" will prevent the ability for teams to go back to a true hard hitting, smash mouth type mentality. I see the game moving toward an Arena League style of play where handing it off to the running back is akin to a full back getting carries in a game.

Okay. Maybe 'smashmouth' is a little much. But I do (perhaps a bit optimistically)think that once defenses get a little smaller and faster and scheme a little differently to handle these offenses inevitably there will be a return to the type of offensive play that we more traditionally associate with football. I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing things get a little less specialized. But I, like many posters on this board, definitely don't want to see essentially pinball on a football field either.