News Article: If Scotland can secede, so can Texas

[TideEngineer08]

I want it understood however that I don't see this as a failure of Christianity per se, any belief system that claims 100% truth and can be shown to not be 100% true while also having absolute power will in my opinion dissolve into tyranny and chaos

Well then explain how the Democratic Party hasn't dissolved yet.

 

[twofbyc]

I agree with Jon's assessment but not his conclusion; I do not think there are nearly as many of these people as he does. And as the lunatic fringe gets louder and comes more into focus, more and more people will turn away, IMO.
But hey, it's Texas, and everything is bigger in Texas.. just leave the rest of the GC out of it. Anyway, the entire gulf coast 50 miles inland from the tip of Florida to Brownsville should be one state anyway...

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

I am with you in that I hope it never gets to a point that we'd find out the answer. Despite all our flaws in this country, what we have and have had all these many years is the general ability to live as we each see fit. Sure, there were and still are wrinkles to be ironed out. Some were pretty stiff wrinkles that needed a lot of starch.

Still, I cannot agree with your assertions of some deep seeded interest by the Christians in this country to wipe out those we don't agree with, and that somehow we've just been ever so slightly held in check by the federal government. Are there groups out there with malicious intent? Large groups, even? Sure. But look at Westboro Baptist, regarded by everyone as the most radical Christian sect in this country. What they've done is horrible, sure. But they've yet to physical assault anyone. I don't excuse their behavior in the slightest. But I don't regard them as potential murders, either.

We don't want to wipe out everyone. Just Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists, Catholics, Jews, Atheists, Satanists, Wicca, Buddhists, Voodoo, Hindus, Sikhs, Shintoists, Rastas, Johovah's Witnesses, Episcopals, liberal Methodists/Presbyterians and tribal religions. Otherwise, every else is fine.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Is there really anyone who is net negative in federal receipts considering how much debt is created each year?

Most southern states, yes.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...tates-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

This is a nice article & graph that depicts for every dollar paid in federal taxes, what is returned to the state.

I do like the words "taxpayer investment." LOL!

 

[TexasBama]

But there would be a Texas Constitution and Texas courts.

"Sec. 6. FREEDOM OF WORSHIP. All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences....."

LOL. Totally neutral on religion. IIRC, Constitutions can be changed.

I can see it now...Genesis 1 will be the new science text in Texas.

 

[cuda.1973]

OK, my turn to dump some gasoline on this................

I don't know why so many of you think we all like Rick Perry. We don't! A running joke (well, among some of us) is "Yeah, I am for secession, as long as Rick Perry is not in charge."

Yes, he gets re-elected. Not because we love him, but the opposition idiots nominate someone that is much more of an idiot.

The same this year: they nominated Abortion Barbie. Never mind a large chunk of their presumed voter base is "Hispanic", and therefore Catholic. They have only recently come to realize that may not be a winning strategy. (DUH!)

Now, I know.............this just gives credence to the argument it would devolve into...........well, who knows what, in a few years.

The idiot Legislature can only meet once every 2 years. And for a specified period. Sure, the gubner can call for a special session.

You have to realize we don't like the gubbament in Austin any more than the cesspool on the Potomac. I think your fears are unwarranted.*

Especially since it isn't going to happen.

Now..............if we can get the states we don't have a good use for to be annexed by Canada.................


Maybe we could lift the ban on the importation of haggis!

"Ay, Jimmeh."

* = OK, if it did, there would be some growing pains. Don't assume the outcome, since most of you do not live here.

 

[bamachile]

Poor Delaware. They just don't know how to work the system.

 

[TexasBama]

More Texas Bill of Rights

"Sec. 4. RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Thankfully, there's a First Amendment of the US Constitution

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

Poor Delaware. They just don't know how to work the system.

Lindsay Graham does, however.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

More Texas Bill of Rights

"Sec. 4. RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Thankfully, there's a First Amendment of the US Constitution

Look, you're making a big deal out of something that, if Texas ever did secede, religion would be just like it now, a means to garner votes, but would never actually be a major player in policy decision making. It's the equivalent of the Democrats going into black churches to get the vote out and stir up the folks. It's a simple power play...that is, to remain in power. Nothing more, nothing less. Captain Hairdo doesn't give one flipping crap what Ed Young and his faithful followers at five campuses cares about from a religious standpoint. That much, I can guarantee you. He cares more about if his hair looks good for the cameras and if the navy pin stripe suit makes him look like someone you would lay down your first child at his altar.

Dude, they are all the same.

 

[Catfish]

I want it understood however that I don't see this as a failure of Christianity per se, any belief system that claims 100% truth and can be shown to not be 100% true while also having absolute power will in my opinion dissolve into tyranny and chaos

In this hypothetical scenario (which I don't think is all that far-fetched), the real fun would come when the Christian majority that is 100% convinced that they're 100% correct breaks up into factions/denominations, each 100% convinced that all the other factions/denominations are heretics and need to be marginalized or eliminated.

"Let me tell you a little something about 'The People' Phil; you lock any ten of them in a room, they may not elect a leader, but I guarantee they'll pick someone to hate."

 

[Jon]

In this hypothetical scenario (which I don't think is all that far-fetched), the real fun would come when the Christian majority that is 100% convinced that they're 100% correct breaks up into factions/denominations, each 100% convinced that all the other factions/denominations are heretics and need to be marginalized or eliminated.

"Let me tell you a little something about 'The People' Phil; you lock any ten of them in a room, they may not elect a leader, but I guarantee they'll pick someone to hate."

reminds me of a favorite joke from the under rated comic genius Emo Phillips

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

In this hypothetical scenario (which I don't think is all that far-fetched), the real fun would come when the Christian majority that is 100% convinced that they're 100% correct breaks up into factions/denominations, each 100% convinced that all the other factions/denominations are heretics and need to be marginalized or eliminated.

"Let me tell you a little something about 'The People' Phil; you lock any ten of them in a room, they may not elect a leader, but I guarantee they'll pick someone to hate."

Aren't they called Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, etc?

 

[bamachile]

Compare the numbers between citizens murdered by Christian theocracies since the Reformation, other theocracies since the Reformation, secular governments since the American Revolution, and by overtly atheist governments in the 20th century alone and you'll find why the whole "Oh, no, the fanatical Christians will get out of hand and beat me up if they ever get in control" stuff is as ludicrous as teenage drama at a Junior High cheerleading practice. Hysteria notwithstanding, the proof is in the numbers, or the lack thereof.

Anyhow, I'm out of this thread. Again.

 

[Jon]

Compare the numbers between citizens murdered by Christian theocracies since the Reformation, other theocracies since the Reformation, secular governments since the American Revolution, and by overtly atheist governments in the 20th century alone and you'll find why the whole "Oh, no, the fanatical Christians will get out of hand and beat me up if they ever get in control" stuff is as ludicrous as teenage drama at a Junior High cheerleading practice. Hysteria notwithstanding, the proof is in the numbers, or the lack thereof.

Anyhow, I'm out of this thread. Again.

outside of the The Vatican*, what Christian Theocracies exist or have existed? Google shows none

The Vatican hardly has blood free hands so I'm failing to see the point you think you've made

you can't say that "history shows no Christian Theocracy has turned violent" when there haven't been any Christian theocracies


edit to add that I am excluding the Holy See, Vatican City, the Vatican whatever you want to call it as it not really a group of Governed people as much as a church that had their land designated a country. At least in modern times

 

[Catfish]

outside of the The Vatican, what Christian Theocracies exist or have existed? Google shows none

The Vatican hardly has blood free hands so I'm failing to see the point you think you've made

you can't say that "history shows no Christian Theocracy has turned violent" when there haven't been any Christian theocracies

Forget it. He's rolling.

 

[Tidewater]

outside of the The Vatican*, what Christian Theocracies exist or have existed? Google shows none

The Vatican hardly has blood free hands so I'm failing to see the point you think you've made

you can't say that "history shows no Christian Theocracy has turned violent" when there haven't been any Christian theocracies


edit to add that I am excluding the Holy See, Vatican City, the Vatican whatever you want to call it as it not really a group of Governed people as much as a church that had their land designated a country. At least in modern times

As in many debates the question goes back to defining terms.
Jon had argued that he would oppose secession of Texas because it would put Texas theocrats in charge of the new nation. (Texas "would become a Christian Theocracy.")
Then argues that "there haven't been any Christian theocracies."
So, I take it that an independent Texas would become something new under the sun, in his view.
If, by "theocracy," he means that only religious leaders would be given political power, I find this far-fetched. The Texas constitution forbids that already (although as TexasBama has pointed out, you cannot be an "out of the closet" atheist and hold public office).
If he means a less stringent standard that public policy would be informed and shaped by Christians and their understanding of society, then I would offer the United States as the counter-argument. For most of the history of the United States, many states had established religions, or after the states dis-established state-funded religions, based their concepts of ordered freedom, at least in part, on religious principles. A law against murder is not unconstitutional just because the Bible forbids murder. Plus, Christians applying their beliefs (informed by Christian theology) were indispensable in ending chattel slavery, achieving the goals of the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s.

On the other side of the equation, vehemently anti-religious states (Revolutionary France, Soviet Union, Kampuchea, Communist China) have committed enormous crimes, so the greater caution, it would seem, ought to flow from the limitless power of the state, especially one divorced from outside standards of human decency. Revolutionary France, the Soviet Union, etc. all argued that they were struggling for the good of all mankind and this goal was used to excuse unbelievable barbarities as means to their glorious ends.

 

[BamaInMo1]

I think you may underestimate the number of 6000 year old earthers in public office here. And in this hypothetical scenario, there would be no US Constitution nor US federal courts.

Edit - this secession thesis is ridiculous anyway

There seems to be no Constitution here now. OBUMA & Co simply rule by "Presidential" decree.

 

[cuda.1973]

As in many debates the question goes back to defining terms.
Jon had argued that he would oppose secession of Texas because it would put Texas theocrats in charge of the new nation. (Texas "would become a Christian Theocracy.")

Jon doesn't live here. I doubt he has ever visited, or knows someone here. Nothing personal, but he is wrong, on this one. His argument makes as much sense as me saying if you took all of Atlanta, and especially the AJC, out of Jawjuh, it would be just like Texas, but worse.