Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Briles Fired, AD and Starr Resigns)

[selmaborntidefan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/baylor-womens-coach-says-parents-concerned-about-sexual-assault-scandal-should-be-knocked-right-in-the-face-002940857.html

“If somebody is around you and they ever say, ‘I will never send my daughter to Baylor,’ you should knock them right in the face,” Mulkey said as the crowd cheered. “Because these kids are on this campus. I work here. My daughter went to school here and it’s the damn best school in America.”

Her players then told her to drop the mic, which she did.

After the speech, Mulkey defended her comments to the local media.

“I’m just tired of hearing it,” she said. “I’m tired of people talking on it on a national scale that don’t know what they’re talking about. If they didn’t sit in those meetings and they weren’t a part of the investigation, you’re repeating things that you’ve heard. It’s over. It’s done, and this is a great institution, and I would send my daughter here, and I’d pay for anybody else’s daughter to come here."


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Look - I GET the frustration by those who themselves were (presumably) not involved. But this is just a few shades below "let's exonerate Joe Paterno," too. I have people with Penn State listed on their richly earned degrees who feel embarrassed by that name now.

You have to hit the bottom first and it ALL has to come out. Only then can the public restoration of reputation begin. And Baylor hasn't reached it yet.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

This is what I would do if I were the NZAA. I would give Baylor one month to do (as much as possible) whatever would fix things in the public eye, which would entail mass firings, admission of guilt by Board members and serious new guidelines. After one month if they are still stubborn I would hand them a probation in which they can only recruit 10 players per year for ten years and no bowls. Let them play ten years with 75 walkons and see where they are in the Big 10 and where they are nationally. I can say no four star would go there and probably not even a top half three star. In other words they would be 'cruiting with Troy and S Alabama. Lots of luck on that "Baylor Football Pride" thingy.

Baylor would appeal and lose given the public sentiment and who would want to side with Baylor and be called out in public? This is the equivalent of the DP without actually stopping play.

The Big 12 would still have ten members and more cannon fodder to add to Kansas and Iowa State.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

BLR is Baylor Leadership Reform. BOR Board of Regents. BAA is Baylor Alumni Association.

Baylor fans are in a mad house. Imagine if this was happening here and the Bama Leadership Reform were at war with the Board of Regents and the whole world is watching your university implode. Honestly, I have never EVER seen anything like this except for maybe the way Hitler and his hoodlums fiddled while Germany imploded. some comments:

If BLR doesn't get its way, then they go all scorched earth with a constant barrage of negative press and a misguided effort to "keep the pressure on." They and the new BAA will make cozy bed fellows in coming up with creative ways to bad mouth the BOR and indirectly Baylor, while their money guys behind the scenes continue to try to gain control, just as they have for years. The only thing for sure, is that based on the BLR's constant negative public posturing, the BOR will never give in to them. They'll just dig their heels in more.

And, let's be honest, with over 125 sexual assault allegations made on campus since 2011, how can you blame Art Briles (alone) for not having reviewed and acted in compliance with Title IX? I know it isn't easy. I know it requires you to set up kangaroo courts. That's what upsets us. And, the fact is the Board of Regents should expel themselves. They were sitting while this all happened. They were responsible for it. Baylor University is a complete and utter mess right now, and its reputation has taken a nosedive. So, don't act like there isn't a problem out there.

And maybe this is why I was wrong. Maybe we should have a BAA. Maybe I put too much faith into our system. Maybe I thought when push comes to shove, those regents would be wise, responsible, selfless, humble and do everything they could in the best interest of Baylor University. I was clearly wrong.

When they came after the BAA I wasn't terribly concerned. I was a member, but I didn't really have a dog in the fight. Now I realize that the BOR sees themselves as feudal lords........accountable to no one. Ultimately Baylor has to stand for something. Baylor is supposed to be for the church and for Texas. If they are unwilling to provide transparency and demonstrate that they are willing to deal fairly with their alumni and financial supporters and if they are unwilling to do their duty to the people of Texas, then burn it to the ground. My degree is signed by Abner McCall and I think he would say the same thing.

 

[CajunCrimson]

What I'm worried about is the "Trump" effect. People standing up for an organization (Baylor) that they love because of a history of overreach by another organization (the NCAA) even though this time, the organization (Baylor), and the accusations associated don't warrant a defense of any kind.

Mulkey, and her comments are not helpful. But, she feels justified because of her allegiance. But, at the core it's quite misguided.

 

[bamacpa]

The irony is rich in her invitation to knock doubters in the face ? Isn't that attitude the origin of their troubles ?


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[CrimsonProf]

Too far.


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[B1GTide]

Just like PSU, I am astounded at just how accepting people can be of evil simply because they have come to trust the source of that evil. It takes a wilful ignorance to say some of the things that these people say. They are choosing to believe that their schools, players and coaches could not possibly be as evil as they have been painted, in spite of the mountain of evidence. It is sad, but it is also deeply ingrained in our psyche.

 

[LA4Bama]

Just like PSU, I am astounded at just how accepting people can be of evil simply because they have come to trust the source of that evil. It takes a wilful ignorance to say some of the things that these people say. They are choosing to believe that their schools, players and coaches could not possibly be as evil as they have been painted, in spite of the mountain of evidence. It is sad, but it is also deeply ingrained in our psyche.

I think your revenge-lust is more deeply ingrained in some subconscious psyche than anything you are speaking against. CA has recently pointed out the obvious, that you would destroy the good with the bad. The blood lust idea that everything associate with a crime be taken down with the criminal is primitive and thank god we don't let that go on any longer. The perpetrators face punishment as individuals. Those who actively aided the perpetrators..., they can go too. The rest, move on. You seem a fan of scorched earth. In so many areas you appear to be a rational poster, but in this I find your interpretation of what is remote in our psyche is the reverse of what I fear in our psyche. I fear undifferentiated blood-lust, not differentiated justice.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

The NZAA could hit Baylor with LOIC. If ever there is an institution without control it is Baylor. As B1GTide pointed out the Penn State matter did not phase Baylor at all. They just kept on trucking.

 

[B1GTide]

I think your revenge-lust

Maybe when one of the women in your life tells you about the time that she was raped you will understand. Someone that you love has been raped - probably more than one. They are too ashamed to tell you or anyone else about it. It needs to stop.

 

[Snuffy Smith]

The NZAA could hit Baylor with LOIC. If ever there is an institution without control it is Baylor. As B1GTide pointed out the Penn State matter did not phase Baylor at all. They just kept on trucking.

There is a difference between shutting down the football program and shutting down the school. I have no problem with a shut down of the football program since that was the cause & source of the bad behavior - but to punish the entire school, the city of Waco and every person who ever got a degree there is a punishment that does not fit the crime.


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[B1GTide]

I have no problem with a shut down of the football program since that was the cause & source of the bad behavior

I think that I would be fine with this as a next step. The problem - PSU was punished and then that punishment was lifted early because people felt bad for those who "had nothing to do with" what happened. Everyone is worried about going too far, and unwilling to go far enough. The question - how far is far enough? Clearly what happened to PSU was not enough. Maybe a permanent death penalty for a football program should be considered.

ETA - If you found out that women were being raped in the bathroom of your local bar/restaurant on a regular basis and that management knew and did nothing to protect the reputation of the bar, would you be worried about the folks who have jobs there or would you just want the place shut down? Yeah, this school is bigger, but are we really going to have the "too big to fail" argument in America again?

 

[KrAzY3]

I will say this, what is abundantly clear is that when the number of sexual assault allegations became so high, that the sheer number itself is being used as defense (well how could you do anything about that many), you know you have a really, really serious problem. You have to take it a little out of the realm of sports. I was raised Independent Baptist and became rather disillusioned with the hypocrisy and bad people pretending to be moral people that I encountered (more concerned with being pious than anything else). What went on at Baylor is just, so far out of the realm of what I would think any Baptists could even momentarily defend. I would think that many protestant might very well get it into their head that Satan had taken over Baylor and they probably should be the ones to burn the darn thing to the ground themselves.

I was protestant and taught to believe Catholics were evil to begin with, so the whole priest scandals didn't come as much of a revelation. But the Duggars? Baylor? Liberty hiring people from Baylor? These horrible disgraceful human beings are making a mockery of their own alleged beliefs. I am sad to say I did hear about someone molesting girls at one of the more cultish churches I went to, and he has never been held accountable either. I'm not going to try to understand this stuff any more, it's beyond the comprehension of any right minded individual. The moral of the story though, is that clearly depravity isn't just practiced by secular people, but by people alleging to have higher moral values as well.

I belabor that point because if one would assume that if a particular place had no room for that sort of thing, that if FSU or PSU would look the other way, certainly Baylor wouldn't, certainly Liberty wouldn't be so maniacal in their pursuit of success that they would hire someone tainted by what went on at Baylor right? It shouldn't be outsiders calling for Baylor to take extreme measures, it should be Baylor themselves. I won't go so far as to say the entire university should be dismantled, but I would say that a university that doesn't seem to realize how horrible what they did is, and a town full of rabid maniacs who willingly support this behavior... well then isn't that kind of what they deserve?

 

[RTR91]

I think that I would be fine with this as a next step. The problem - PSU was punished and then that punishment was lifted early because people felt bad for those who "had nothing to do with" what happened. Everyone is worried about going too far, and unwilling to go far enough. The question - how far is far enough? Clearly what happened to PSU was not enough. Maybe a permanent death penalty for a football program should be considered.

ETA - If you found out that women were being raped in the bathroom of your local bar/restaurant on a regular basis and that management knew and did nothing to protect the reputation of the bar, would you be worried about the folks who have jobs there or would you just want the place shut down? Yeah, this school is bigger, but are we really going to have the "too big to fail" argument in America again?

Clearly, you have personal experiences that are play a role in your stance. I don't wish that on anyone. Can't imagine it.

Do you remember why the Penn State sanctions were lifted? The NCAA had no grounds for them. They would have lost big time in court, so they saved face and backed off. I was very much in the corner of punishing them as much as possible at the time. Now, I realize the NCAA had no jurisdiction over Sandusky.

Your analogy is flawed in one major area - management would be prosecuted, which would cause the business to eventually shut down since they wouldn't have the money to run it any longer.


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[B1GTide]

Clearly, you have personal experiences that are play a role in your stance. I don't wish that on anyone. Can't imagine it.

Do you remember why the Penn State sanctions were lifted? The NCAA had no grounds for them. They would have lost big time in court, so they saved face and backed off. I was very much in the corner of punishing them as much as possible at the time. Now, I realize the NCAA had no jurisdiction over Sandusky.

Your analogy is flawed in one major area - management would be prosecuted, which would cause the business to eventually shut down since they wouldn't have the money to run it any longer.

Thanks, and you have people close to you who have experience in this, too. We all do.

As for what happened to PSU, the NCAA was forced to take action when no one else would. Then they were slapped for doing so. It is one of the few times in my life that I was actually proud of the NCAA. They over-stepped, but bravo for the effort.

As for the bar thing - it was not an analogy, it was a question. Don't ignore the question - answer it. Would you care that dozens of innocent people working in the bar lost jobs if it was shut down? No one would. We would accept the collateral damage in hopes that such a thing never happens again. After all, we are talking about jobs vs. loss of life. And, to be clear, one's life is stolen when one is raped. The person is permanently damaged - never the same again. The life that might have been is replaced by another life - one far less than the life stolen.

Rape is murder, just another type of murder.

 

[CrimsonProf]

Shutting down a major university is not the same as shutting down a small or even medium sized business. It wouldn't affect just a few dozen people - it would affect thousands. It's too much to even suggest, no matter how serious the allegations are. I'm more than fine with punishing the program as the team did receive an advantage by fielding players who would have otherwise been unavailable.

This is obviously a personal matter for a lot of us, but the idea of shutting down an entire university - something there is almost impossible legally - is too much.

I will note that this case highlights the problem with big time athletics being too closely linked to a university's sense of self as well as its financial well being.


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[CrimsonNagus]

KrAvY3 hit the nail on the head for me, a Christian institution should be the first one condemning these crimes, not trying to bury them. History has taught us one thing over and over about religion, they will always attempt to protect their own interest over everything. It's even in the Bible for goodness sake. The priest during Jesus' time control government to a degree and even killed there own Messiah because they disagreed with him and he was "rocking the boat" to much.

The same thing continues today and it is just sad. I've grown up in the church, mostly Southern Baptist, and as I get older and older my faith is challenged more by other Christians then non-believers. I'm so sick and tired of people pretending on Sundays. Now, it is not everyone, I now some great Christian people who truly do act what they preach but, I'm tired of the ones who are just there to check off the church box for the week. I'd much rather these folks just quit coming and the church be small instead of huge but, full of people there just for the social experience.

 

[CrimsonProf]

While Baylor has a good underground program in Christian philosophy - from Augustine to Flannery O'Conner - it's not an overly Christian school like, say, Wheaton.

Let's drop that angle - it's not germane to the discussion.


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[KrAzY3]

While Baylor has a good underground program in Christian philosophy - from Augustine to Flannery O'Conner - it's not an overly Christian school like, say, Wheaton.

Let's drop that angle - it's not germane to the discussion.

While I understand your point, what should be dropped is the Baptist part. They should just come out and denounce it, drop the Baptist ministry stuff and all of that because basically at this point all they're doing to their religion is defaming it. In a way it is no different than Islamists who make their religion look bad with terrorism and what not, is that what the religion is like? Or are these just sick people acting like sick people do?

I won't belabor the point, but the two are intertwined. This is a Baptist institution and in the name of their beloved, almighty, sacred above all else football program they also perpetrated coverup of massive amounts of sexual abuse. They're the ones that claim to be Baptist, they're the ones dragging their religion through the mud, I'm not. And yes, I'd like to see sports and religion separated, I don't think the two really have much to do with each other, but in this case there's no mistaking the connection. So I'll let it go but I stand by my point.

 

[CrimsonProf]

Do you have any understanding of the funding mechanisms at work between the SBC and Baylor? Or between Baylor and the Baptist General Convention of Texas? If not, best to let it go, but I'm probably asking too much of you.


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