St.Paul's Sues AHSAA over Discriminatory Rule.

[B1GTide]

Outsider's opinion here, but I never believe that a program should be punished for winning. As long as HS kids get to play, the schools has achieved its goal. Winning is not guaranteed, and life isn't fair.

 

[81usaf92]

Outsider's opinion here, but I never believe that a program should be punished for winning. As long as HS kids get to play, the schools has achieved its goal. Winning is not guaranteed, and life isn't fair.

So county schools should be punished for their economic status, and you believe you should have the ability to buy a championship?

 

[B1GTide]

So county schools should be punished for their economic status, and you believe you should have the ability to buy a championship?

If scholarships are a concern, fix that. But I played for a small county team. I loved football just as much as those guys lucky enough to play on better teams, and probably learned more because I had to play multiple positions.

 

[81usaf92]

Football Past State Champions

What am I missing here? From what I can tell, private schools have one two of the last 14 state championships.

Since 2010, nine championships of been claimed by private schools. That's 17% of the football blue maps handed out in that span. Struggling to see how there's an issue.

Should Lauderdale County girls basketball play up a classification or two after winning five straight championships from 2012-2016 and eight total since 2000?

Super 7 started in 2014.

St Pauls has won 14, 15, and 17 state championships in 5A football 75% of the 5A state championships. Why is the Super 7 relevant? Because it effectively took Spanish Fort, Homewood, and Ben Russell out and left the league at the mercy of St Pauls and Briarwood. Both schools belong in 6A where they have equal competition.

 

[81usaf92]

If scholarships are a concern, fix that. But I played for a small county team. I loved football just as much as those guys lucky enough to play on better teams, and probably learned more because I had to play multiple positions.

If they did or limited the amount of them then noone would have an issue with them. These schools that we are talking about are college athletic prep schools going against teams that barely have 30 players total from areas that probably have a D1 recruit every 15 years.

 

[CrimsonProf]

If they did or limited the amount of them then noone would have an issue with them. These schools that we are talking about are college athletic prep schools going against teams that barely have 30 players total from areas that probably have a D1 recruit every 15 years.

That is a serious mischaracterization. Briarwood, St. Paul's, etc. are serious academic schools - not on par with with Indian Springs or Altamont, perhaps - but they're not IMG.

It's also noted that these schools have often thrived where local public schools were awful.

 

[RTR91]

Super 7 started in 2014.

St Pauls has won 14, 15, and 17 state championships in 5A football 75% of the 5A state championships. Why is the Super 7 relevant? Because it effectively took Spanish Fort, Homewood, and Ben Russell out and left the league at the mercy of St Pauls and Briarwood. Both schools belong in 6A where they have equal competition.

So because the teams that dominated 5A moved up and the tier of programs behind them took the reigns, something is wrong? That's the insinuation here.

 

[81usaf92]

That is a serious mischaracterization. Briarwood, St. Paul's, etc. are serious academic schools - not on par with with Indian Springs or Altamont, perhaps - but they're not IMG.

It's also noted that these schools have often thrived where local public schools were awful.

Yes they put serious stock into academics, but lets not hide from the fact that they equal put serious stock into poaching athletes from economically inferior counties to win state championships, and try their best in dodging equal competition.

Yes they are not on the level as IMG, but who is, but they might as well be when they have a fully recruited team while most of their competition in 5A is hoping to have a generational player to keep up.

 

[81usaf92]

So because the teams that dominated 5A moved up and the tier of programs behind them took the reigns, something is wrong? That's the insinuation here.

So you wouldnt be opposed if the Cleveland Browns joined the SEC as long as they limit their roster to the best 35 players I take it? Thats what Im getting from the pro-private school group here.

 

[CrimsonProf]

Yes they put serious stock into academics, but lets not hide from the fact that they equal put serious stock into poaching athletes from economically inferior counties to win state championships, and try their best in dodging equal competition.

Yes they are not on the level as IMG, but who is, but they might as well be when they have a fully recruited team while most of their competition in 5A is hoping to have a generational player to keep up.

Okie-dokie.

 

[RTR91]

So you wouldnt be opposed if the Cleveland Browns joined the SEC as long as they limit their roster to the best 35 players I take it? Thats what Im getting from the pro-private school group here.

Yes. That's exactly what we're saying.

 

[B1GTide]

If they did or limited the amount of them then noone would have an issue with them. These schools that we are talking about are college athletic prep schools going against teams that barely have 30 players total from areas that probably have a D1 recruit every 15 years.

I get that they hurt small schools by "stealing" their best players, but those players are generally better off. This boils down to a school pride thing, IMO.

 

[81usaf92]

Yes. That's exactly what we're saying.

Since 2010 here are their records vs their new region opponents

BC Rain 8-0 (3 runaway shut outs, closest game was by 19 pts)

GS 4-0 (1 shut out, closest game 26 pts)

SF 3-2 (1 shut out but alot of St Pauls runaway wins and closer SF wins)

They have a winning record historically vs every team in their region except Daphne 1-1. I think this is empirical evidence that St Pauls is more than capable of competing in their region and getting to the playoffs.

I get that they hurt small schools by "stealing" their best players, but those players are generally better off. This boils down to a school pride thing, IMO.

Then where is St Pauls pride? They seem like a bunch of scardy cats trying to dodge equally talented Mobile teams. I think pride is important, but there is a point in which it doesnt. And you cant tell me that if your kids are playing for IDK, Shelby Co, and its the best SCo school in history, that you wouldnt think playing a recruited private school like Briarwood who has the best of everything that you wouldnt have an issue with them sweeping you by 30 points 4 years straight and pretty much everyone in their region. for that matter

 

[RTR91]

Since 2010 here are their records vs their new region opponents

BC Rain 8-0 (3 runaway shut outs, closest game was by 19 pts)

GS 4-0 (1 shut out, closest game 26 pts)

SF 3-2 (1 shut out but alot of St Pauls runaway wins and closer SF wins)

They have a winning record historically vs every team in their region except Daphne 1-1. I think this is empirical evidence that St Pauls is more than capable of competing in their region and getting to the playoffs.





Then where is St Pauls pride? They seem like a bunch of scardy cats trying to dodge equally talented Mobile teams. I think pride is important, but there is a point in which it doesnt. And you cant tell me that if your kids are playing for IDK, Shelby Co, and its the best SCo school in history, that you wouldnt think playing a recruited private school like Briarwood who has the best of everything that you wouldnt have an issue with them sweeping you by 30 points 4 years straight and pretty much everyone in their region. for that matter

As someone that went to Prattville during Bill Clark's reign and saw halftime scores of 56-0, hear me out - some times one program is just that much better than its district. That doesn't mean they should go up a level just because they're that much better than everyone else. It's a part of life.

This is high school athletics, not English soccer. As someone asked earlier - are teams going to go down a classification for being trash? Nope.

 

[81usaf92]

As someone that went to Prattville during Bill Clark's reign and saw halftime scores of 56-0, hear me out - some times one program is just that much better than its district. That doesn't mean they should go up a level just because they're that much better than everyone else. It's a part of life.

This is high school athletics, not English soccer. As someone asked earlier - are teams going to go down a classification for being trash? Nope.

You are comparing a huge public school that is capable of keeping numbers with teams like to small schools that are lucky to have 1 DI player in 15 years with a team that has 5-8 every single year. Two totally different arguments and not comparable.

There should be a point in which competition matters and in 4A and 5A it doesn’t because you have these private schools hiding from local competition and feasting on this small county and small city schools. It’s just bad for the sport.

3-5 A should be about mid level competition
6-7 A should be about elite competition

St Paul’s, Briarwood, and Faith all should be 6 A.

 

[RTR91]

You are comparing a huge public school that is capable of keeping numbers with teams like to small schools that are lucky to have 1 DI player in 15 years with a team that has 5-8 every single year. Two totally different arguments and not comparable.

There should be a point in which competition matters and in 4A and 5A it doesn’t because you have these private schools hiding from local competition and feasting on this small county and small city schools. It’s just bad for the sport.

3-5 A should be about mid level competition
6-7 A should be about elite competition

St Paul’s, Briarwood, and Faith all should be 6 A.

No. I'm talking about Prattville against Carver-Montgomery, Lee-Montgomery, and Jeff Davis. At the time, all were 6A or 5A.

 

[81usaf92]

No. I'm talking about Prattville against Carver-Montgomery, Lee-Montgomery, and Jeff Davis. At the time, all were 6A or 5A.

I’m not seeing your point? My point is these schools either need to exist in their own separate classification or need to be put in a classification which their competition level dictates, and St Paul’s clearly needs to be in 6A with Spanish Fort if they want to be in AHSAA because they clearly can keep pace

 

[GrayTide]

Tennessee has a separate division for private schools. Can someone there tell us how that has worked out?

That might be a solution here, but it could cause problems putting a schedule together if public/private games were banned. Plus you’d have some long trips for first round playoff games. It also might kill programs in some sports if not enough private schools sponsor the sport.


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http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...public-private-split-turns-15-mccallie/89831/

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/551/291/

 

[B1GTide]

Then where is St Pauls pride?

I'm just saying that you are only upset because it hurts your school. Why do I feel this way? Because you understand that life isn't fair.

There is no way to level the playing field without forcing private schools into a different championship division. Penalizing them for winning is not the answer.

 

[81usaf92]

I'm just saying that you are only upset because it hurts your school. Why do I feel this way? Because you understand that life isn't fair.

There is no way to level the playing field without forcing private schools into a different championship division. Penalizing them for winning is not the answer.

There is a way to level the playing field and they just did.