Different Realities: Discrepancies in Sooner & Tide Fans Viewpoints

[westide]

I am not overly impressed with OU's OL after watching their performance against an undersized Army DL.

 

[Tidewater]

to be fair, that is true of just about every list found on message boards.

I'm going to post a list of things I agree with.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

The point is that saying OU is the worse defense in history is probably a little misleading. The fact is many teams are statistically worse than OU's season including some of Bama's schedule.



I hold Tua in the highest regard -- no slight intended at him at all. My point is that freshman QBs may not show their true capabilities until they've had some P5 game experience. Rather, I was trying to support the notion that it MIGHT be misleading to judge Texas Tech's offensive proficiency based on the first game of the season in which Texas Tech started a new freshman QB.

I think you're kind of missing what's being said.

Nobody but nobody thinks that OU's defense this year is the worst ever assembled.

But it IS - so far as I can tell - the worst by any team that was ever a national championship contender. Auburn's 2010 defense - despite a couple of really good players - was pretty bad, but they held Oregon way below their eye-popping numbers. I think - I'd have to look closer - that Auburn defense was the worst to ever win the title.

But that defense was light years better than what we've seen so far this year from OU.

So it's in the context of being a contender that the issue arises.

 

[B1GTide]

Fromm had a rating of 163.8 over the last half of the season (last 7 games) and Murray had a rating of 191.2 over that same span.

Interesting that you chose 7 games, and I see why. Fromm's passer rating over the last 6 games was 208.9. Murrays score also went up when you only use 6 games, to 192.2. So the stats touted everywhere were correct - over the last 6 games of the season (which include the conference championship games), Fromm's rating was the highest in college football.

For everyone's information - he added the 7th game because it was the game against LSU. Since that loss, Fromm has been the best QB in the country.

 

[Con]

Interesting that you chose 7 games, and I see why. Fromm's passer rating over the last 6 games was 208.9. Murrays score also went up when you only use 6 games, to 192.2. So the stats touted everywhere were correct - over the last 6 games of the season (which include the conference championship games), Fromm's rating was the highest in college football.

For everyone's information - he added the 7th game because it was the game against LSU. Since that loss, Fromm has been the best QB in the country.

Dang B1GTide, you are on top of things.

 

[RTR91]

I didn’t realize reading comprehension was so hard. How many different ways can we explain the OU defense?


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[DzynKingRTR]

Interesting that you chose 7 games, and I see why. Fromm's passer rating over the last 6 games was 208.9. Murrays score also went up when you only use 6 games, to 192.2. So the stats touted everywhere were correct - over the last 6 games of the season (which include the conference championship games), Fromm's rating was the highest in college football.

For everyone's information - he added the 7th game because it was the game against LSU. Since that loss, Fromm has been the best QB in the country.

He had to add the L8U game otherwise he would have looked foolish. We are going to have 16 days of this type of post from our sooner visitors. It is going to be a long 16 days. I have gotten tired of reading the same thing over and over. I may just check out until Earle starts the pregame thread. I will just stay in the threads that have nothing to do with this game.

 

[Trjtrjtrj]

Selmaborntidefan, that's a nice detailed football discussion. I appreciate it and I really can't disagree with many of your points.

I will say that prior to playing UGA last year, all we heard was that we were going to get snuffed by a real SEC defense. When UGA started their surge, I feel we got too conservative for a time in the second half. You're kidding yourself if you think OU had zero offense in the 4th quarter and overtime. I think most Sooners believe we should have won that game!

The only thing I'll say about that Sugar Bowl meeting a few years ago is that 2018 Kyler Murray is playing at a much higher level than 2014 Trevor Knight was. Other than that fact, there's probably not much we can apply toward this meeting.

 

[RTR91]

Selmaborntidefan, that's a nice detailed football discussion. I appreciate it and I really can't disagree with many of your points.

I will say that prior to playing UGA last year, all we heard was that we were going to get snuffed by a real SEC defense. When UGA started their surge, I feel we got too conservative for a time in the second half. You're kidding yourself if you think OU had zero offense in the 4th quarter and overtime. I think most Sooners believe we should have won that game!

The only thing I'll say about that Sugar Bowl meeting a few years ago is that 2018 Kyler Murray is playing at a much higher level than 2014 Trevor Knight was. Other than that fact, there's probably not much we can apply toward this meeting.

Not to be a smart-aleck, but most fans will say their team should have won a game that went to OT.


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[uafan4life]

Selmaborntidefan, that's a nice detailed football discussion. I appreciate it and I really can't disagree with many of your points.

I will say that prior to playing UGA last year, all we heard was that we were going to get snuffed by a real SEC defense. When UGA started their surge, I feel we got too conservative for a time in the second half. You're kidding yourself if you think OU had zero offense in the 4th quarter and overtime. I think most Sooners believe we should have won that game!

The only thing I'll say about that Sugar Bowl meeting a few years ago is that 2018 Kyler Murray is playing at a much higher level than 2014 Trevor Knight was. Other than that fact, there's probably not much we can apply toward this meeting.

I think the biggest thing most Alabama and other SEC fans take away from last year's Rose Bowl is that the "unstoppable Oklahoma offense" scored, after Georgia made defensive adjustments, a grand total of one - 1! - offensive touchdown in two quarters plus overtime.

 

[Trjtrjtrj]

Interesting that you chose 7 games, and I see why. Fromm's passer rating over the last 6 games was 208.9. Murrays score also went up when you only use 6 games, to 192.2. So the stats touted everywhere were correct - over the last 6 games of the season (which include the conference championship games), Fromm's rating was the highest in college football.

For everyone's information - he added the 7th game because it was the game against LSU. Since that loss, Fromm has been the best QB in the country.

B1GTide, I believe your calculations are wrong. Let's look at the last 6 games of the 13 played:

* FROMM = 124 attempts, 87 completions, 1128 yards, 14 TDs, 1 int = 182.2

* MURRAY = 181 attempts, 126 completions, 2076 yards, 15 TDs, 4 int = 188.9

Using the final 6 games helps Fromm because it places more emphasis on the Nov-17 game where Fromm threw a 344.1 QB rating (it was against that powerhouse Univ of Massachusetts).

 

[Con]

I didn’t realize reading comprehension was so hard. How many different ways can we explain the OU defense?


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Maybe our academics are actually higher at Alabama than the other thread is giving us credit for. I understand exactly what you are saying. :smile:

 

[Trjtrjtrj]

He had to add the L8U game otherwise he would have looked foolish. We are going to have 16 days of this type of post from our sooner visitors. It is going to be a long 16 days. I have gotten tired of reading the same thing over and over. I may just check out until Earle starts the pregame thread. I will just stay in the threads that have nothing to do with this game.

DzynKingRTR, it doesn't matter if you go 6 games or 7. Fromm is playing at a high level. Murray's stats are still better -- see my post above.

 

[Tidewater]

DzynKingRTR, it doesn't matter if you go 6 games or 7. Fromm is playing at a high level. Murray's stats are still better -- see my post above.

I am willing to stipulate that Murray is a very good QB. I expect OU will have the best offense Alabama has faced.
Honestly what worries me more is OU's defense picking up their game before the Orange Bowl.
Watching the WVU game, it looked like "tackling optional" football, but against Tejas, I have to say, the Sooner D played a good bit better than I was led to believe they would.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Fromm had a rating of 163.8 over the last half of the season (last 7 games) and Murray had a rating of 191.2 over that same span.

The average opponent defense UGA faced over that span was 24.3 using FootballOutsiders S&P+, and OU faced an average 28.8 defense (lower is better).

(You think we don't notice that UMass skews the data.....but we do.........)

 

[editder]

The point is that saying OU is the worse defense in history is probably a little misleading. The fact is many teams are statistically worse than OU's season including some of Bama's schedule.


I hold Tua in the highest regard -- no slight intended at him at all. My point is that freshman QBs may not show their true capabilities until they've had some P5 game experience. Rather, I was trying to support the notion that it MIGHT be misleading to judge Texas Tech's offensive proficiency based on the first game of the season in which Texas Tech started a new freshman QB.

The point might have been more valid if Bama hadn't blown those 5 teams out. Plus we're not facing any of them in the playoffs.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Selmaborntidefan, that's a nice detailed football discussion. I appreciate it and I really can't disagree with many of your points.

I will say that prior to playing UGA last year, all we heard was that we were going to get snuffed by a real SEC defense.

Probably felt about like us hearing other Sooner fans insisting they're going to score 60 points on us.

When UGA started their surge, I feel we got too conservative for a time in the second half. You're kidding yourself if you think OU had zero offense in the 4th quarter and overtime.

Good thing that's not what I said now, isn't it?

What did I say?

"Oh, we hung 48 points on Georgia!" No, you didn't. You scored 31 points in a great half, the teams went in and adjusted and the OFFENSE had ONE TOUCHDOWN after halftime.

Now I was clearly referring to regulation, but my point still stands.

Baker Mayfield, who was supposedly born in a manger on Christmas Day because there was no room in the inn, led the greatest offense since Norman Schwarzkopf invaded Baghad to.......ONE touchdown in the second half.

And let's see what the offense did in the second half:
Eight possessions
152 yards, 36 coming on one play
5 three and outs, one ending in a pick; another was four plays and the end of the drive
7 points

So my point still stands. You DID get a defensive TD on the return of Sony Michel's fumble.

I think most Sooners believe we should have won that game!

The only thing I'll say about that Sugar Bowl meeting a few years ago is that 2018 Kyler Murray is playing at a much higher level than 2014 Trevor Knight was. Other than that fact, there's probably not much we can apply toward this meeting.

I don't think anyone here doubts this fact, but then again I'm always amazed how many Sooners think the story of that game was Trevor Knight.

The story of the game was: five turnovers.

If we turn the ball over five times on December 29, we're going to lose.

 

[TideFan in AU]

I am willing to stipulate that Murray is a very good QB. I expect OU will have the best offense Alabama has faced.
Honestly what worries me more is OU's defense picking up their game before the Orange Bowl.
Watching the WVU game, it looked like "tackling optional" football, but against Tejas, I have to say, the Sooner D played a good bit better than I was led to believe they would.

Texas has the 54th ranked offense in the BIGXII, which is kinda telling. The 48 points they scored against OU was the highest of the season for them. In the 2 games prior to playing in the BIGXIICG they had a pair of 24 point outings against Iowa St and Kansas, so it's not like Texas was lighting it on fire this year.

 

[CoolBreeze]

Speaking solely for myself (although, I believe some share my thoughts), I fully expect a close shootout.

Um, nah, we are going to throttle them. You know it

 

[edwd58]

DzynKingRTR, it doesn't matter if you go 6 games or 7. Fromm is playing at a high level. Murray's stats are still better -- see my post above.

As we've all learned: there are lies, damn lies, and statistics - which are for losers.

The neat thing about stats is that you can pick your side of an issue and then find, create, or tweak statistics to support your argument. Stats still don't win games or OU would be undefeated.​

Murray has good stats, I've not seen anyone here argue against that. Tua has good stats, the Alabama defense has good stats, the Oklahoma defense has bad... issues.

Earlier in the thread a sooner touted the OU defense as being better, statistically, than 5 defenses we've played. I find this claim amazing/puzzling - considering we've played 13 games - as simple math, that even Alabama grads can do (but someone might want to check me) - means we've played 8 defenses better than Oklahoma's. I doubt it takes much research to find the answer to this question but I'll ask it (rhetorically) anyway: how many defenses has OU played that are better than Alabama's? The answer certainly won't be 8, or even 5.