Different Realities: Discrepancies in Sooner & Tide Fans Viewpoints

Trjtrjtrj

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Dec 4, 2018
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If you’re like me, you’re patiently waiting for this year’s Orange Bowl CFP game between mighty Bama and my Sooners. It pits the Heisman Trophy winner against the Heisman runner-up. It features the best Big XII offense against one of the best (if not the best) SEC defenses. It features a duel between one of the games most successful veteran coaches ever in Saban against a bright up-and-comer in Riley.

In my readings of various Tide fans, I’ve came across a number of storylines from Bama fans that certainly run counter to the views held by many Sooner fans who’ve followed OU closely this year. So in an effort to provide some interest to the game (not trying to troll here, just provide a respectful difference of opinion), I’ll list a few storylines where there’s probably a big discrepancy between what most Tide fans and most Sooners believe:
1) The Discussed Storyline: Kyler Murray is a Big XII system passer: his touchdown passes are often off-the-mark and he’s feasted on poor defenses. Put him against Bama pressure and bump coverage and he’ll fold.

A Sooner’s viewpoint: Murray has set the record for highest QB rating EVER so he’s not just another QB. Plus, any discussion of Murray should also include OU’s OL which is exceptional. Finally, Kyler is blessed with nerves of steel. He’s definitely human and has struggled on rare occasions, but he has never been taken out of the game mentally (witness his late game heroics against UT in the first OU-UT matchup).


2) The Discussed Storyline: OU’s defense is historically bad and will be the worse defense Bama sees all year.

A Sooner’s viewpoint: I’m confident OU’s defense has performed better than several of Bama’s opponents this season, but objectively comparing OU and Bama’s 2018 opponents is difficult because Bama and OU have played against different teams. However we can turn to the FootballOutsiders S&P+ ratings BECAUSE it attempts to normalize for competition. They rate OU’s defense as stronger than 5 of Bama’s 2018 opponents: Louisville, Ole Miss, LA Lafayette, Tennessee, and The Citadel.


3) The Discussed Storyline: Bama should have success containing Murray with a single LB acting as a spy. The Longhorns were successful with this approach.

A Sooner’s viewpoint: Texas did use a spy approach (along with several other teams); however I feel like the offense had a pretty good game against the Longhorns in both meetings this year. I also think it would take an exceptional effort by a LB to contain Kyler Murray for 60 minutes (Kyler’s both shifty and quick as a runner, and accurate as a passer).


4) The Discussed Storyline: This year the SEC has tamed those high-flying Big XII offenses.

A Sooner’s Viewpoint: We have three SEC/BigXII matchups from this season. They are: WVU 40 / Tenn 14, KSU 10 / Miss St 31, Texas Tech 27 / Ole Miss 47. [It’s worth noting that 5 of the 6 teams had a returning QB with various levels of game experience from previous seasons, but Texas Tech had a freshman playing in his first college game in a QB-centric offense. In my experience, a freshman QB often improves dramatically over and above their first game against a P5 opponent – and indeed, Texas Tech’s offense improved over the course of the year. (BTW, Tua recorded a 25% completion rate in his first game against a P5 opponent.)]

Looking a little deeper, Tennessee didn’t stop WVU (WVU punted one time), Miss State did a good job against KSU holding them to 10, and Ole Miss did a reasonable job against a freshman QB starting his first college game. From SEC league play, we learn that Tennessee had a fair defense, Miss State had a very good defense, and Ole Miss had a fair defense. WVU ended 6-3 in conference, KSU ended 3-6 in conference, and Texas Tech ended 3-6 in conference. Meanwhile, Miss State ended 4-4 in conference, Ole Miss ended 1-7 in conference, and Tennessee ended 2-6 in conference. Only three games makes any assessment a challenge, but I’d say the results are consistent with what was expected based off Big XII and SEC league play.

5) The Discussed Storyline: The SEC is head-and-shoulders better than the Big XII in football.

A Sooner’s Viewpoint: Those living in SEC country probably don’t realize the amount of hype that some media outlets shovel about the greatness of the SEC, and it's no surprise when you run into football fans from other conferences if the discussion turns to chagrin about how the SEC promotion. Certainly Bama has earned special recognition, but is the rest of the conference really head-and-shoulders better than other conferences? When Mizzu and Texas A&M went from Big XII to SEC – they remained at the same level or actually improved their in-conference records. That wouldn’t happen if the SEC was head-and-shoulders above the Big XII. [When comparing the last 3 years of Big XII play with the first 3 years of SEC play -- Mizzu went from a 15-10 record with 0 division championships in Big XII play to 16-8 and and 2 division championships in SEC; TAMU went from 13-12 in Big-XII to 13-11 in SEC]

So there's definitely some discrepancies among fan bases. It will be interesting to see how the game plays out.
 

2) The Discussed Storyline: OU’s defense is historically bad and will be the worse defense Bama sees all year.

A Sooner’s viewpoint: I’m confident OU’s defense has performed better than several of Bama’s opponents this season, but objectively comparing OU and Bama’s 2018 opponents is difficult because Bama and OU have played against different teams. However we can turn to the FootballOutsiders S&P+ ratings BECAUSE it attempts to normalize for competition. They rate OU’s defense as stronger than 5 of Bama’s 2018 opponents: Louisville, Ole Miss, LA Lafayette, Tennessee, and The Citadel.



It's not that OU's defense is bad (everyone agrees with that). The issue is how historically bad it is for a championship contending team.

I've posted the stats in a few different threads, but I'll do it again here in case you haven't seen it.

Stat time....

Reminder for those not familiar, the season average of opponents is done in games not against Alabama or Oklahoma.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Defense[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]YPG[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Yards Against[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Difference[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]PPG[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Points Against[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Difference[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Plays Per Game[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Plays Against[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Yards Per Play[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Yards Per Play Against[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]OU[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]416.95[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]448.08[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]31.13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29.95[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]32.38[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2.43[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]72.31[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]74.361[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.75[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6.02[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]UA[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]424.82[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]295.38[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-129.44[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]31.64[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14.85[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-16.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]69.43[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]65.31[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6.11[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4.46[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Offense[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]YPG Allowed[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Difference[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]PPG Allowed[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Points[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Difference[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Plays Per Game Allowed[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Plays[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Yards Per Play Allowed[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Yards Per Play[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]OU[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]388.74[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]577.92[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]194.18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25.7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]49.46[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23.77[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]69.54[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]66.08[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.52[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]UA[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]371.3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]527.62[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]156.31[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25.46[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47.92[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22.46[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]67.2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]66.62[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.51[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.07[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


OU's defense is remarkably bad. Opponents exceed yards, points, plays, and yards per play against them. That's really bad. Really bad.

Taking what each offense does plus what the opposing defense does and averaging them, I have Alabama winning 52-35 and out-gaining OU 581-450 in yards. I suspect OU gets more than 450, though.

Also worth noting OU has not played many good pass defenses. They've played one defense ranked in the top 50 in pass efficiency defense (TCU at #43).

And then this post discussing the points from each team.​
 
No one has said that Murray would fold if he played in the SEC. Not a single person. But it is a straight fact that his stats would be diminished.

As for the rest, I understand why you feel differently. Why would you concede that the SEC is the better conference? They are, but no one expects fans of other conferences to assimilate.
 
Sorry, meant to add that both Jalen and Tua from Alabama also broke the record for best QBR in a season this year. That is 2 QBs on Alabama's team, both of whom played against significantly better defenses. Crazy year for QB stats.
 
Really the OPs post is just a rebuttable to Tidefan perspectives. It's not addressing and dealing with discrepancies, it's a list of things he disagrees with....
 
Really the OPs post is just a rebuttable to Tidefan perspectives. It's not addressing and dealing with discrepancies, it's a list of things he disagrees with....
Thanks for letting us know. ;) :biggrin2: :biggrin:
 
OU isn't the worst defense we have played all year BUT they're pretty darn close.

They rank 89th using S&P+, Tennessee ranks 96,Ole Miss is 109, Louisville 110, LA Lafayette 111(side note how weird is it that these 3 teams are ranked so closely to one another).
 
Thanks for letting us know. ;) :biggrin2: :biggrin:
Hey you're the one that clicked like, heh.

I mean I really appreciate people signing up here to come tell us all the things they think we're wrong about. I'd at least have labelled it correctly, something like "A bunch of excuses from an Oklahoma fan".
 
RTR91, OU has certainly had problems with Big XII offenses this year. I'll just say that the defense does have a lot of talent (albeit very young), and they've shown occasional good play punctuated by moments of confusion and busts. If they can get a few stops in Miami, the game could get a lot closer than the Vegas line.
 
OU isn't the worst defense we have played all year BUT they're pretty darn close.

They rank 89th using S&P+, Tennessee ranks 96,Ole Miss is 109, Louisville 110, LA Lafayette 111(side note how weird is it that these 3 teams are ranked so closely to one another).

It's the Bama effect, Pawwwwllll.
 
Great discussions there. Really well written, and agreeable. However, I don't feel very confident in your attempt to smoothe over the 2nd point. In my experience it seems OU fans are either disregarding our Offense, or have so much confidence in their own Offense that it seems most fans have completely forgotten that OU's defense has been absolutely abysmal for most of the season.

You can take pride in the fact that OU will certainly not be the worst defense Alabama faces this entire season, but remember that Alabama beat those 5 teams by a combined total of 277-73. And I just noticed Arkansas State was not in that list. That leaves me to understand, at least statistically speaking, Arkansas State is a better defense? I don't know about that, but I do know Defense wins championships, and this OU team pales in comparison to the 2000, and 1985 National Champion OU teams. I don't see OU hanging around this game like you would hope.
 
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In my experience it seems OU fans are either disregarding our Offense, or have so much confidence in their own Offense that it seems most fans have completely forgotten that OU's defense has been absolutely abysmal for most of the season.
I think most Sooners have a great respect for this years Bama offense, most are simply hoping that we win in a shootout where our defense gets a few stops and our offense is "on".
 
RTR91, OU has certainly had problems with Big XII offenses this year. I'll just say that the defense does have a lot of talent (albeit very young), and they've shown occasional good play punctuated by moments of confusion and busts. If they can get a few stops in Miami, the game could get a lot closer than the Vegas line.

I get it. They're young talented guys that go up against wide open offenses. Still doesn't excuse them being as bad as they are.

Btw, their opponents averaged less yards and points than Alabama's did.;)
 
Warriors88, you over state what you think "OU fans" think.

I have seen enough bama ball this season to know the offense is prolific and attacks through the air and on the ground, difficult to contain, let alone stop, with not one but two first team level QB's.

Complementing that is a defense with NFL-ready players that have overmatched every opponent they've faced.

Yes, Sooners have confidence in an offense that is better than last year when we thought it couldn't get any better.

I don't expect a Sooner victory but maybe this game is going to be closer than some of you think.
 
Certainly Bama has earned special recognition, but is the rest of the conference really head-and-shoulders better than other conferences? When Mizzu and Texas A&M went from Big XII to SEC – they remained at the same level or actually improved their in-conference records. That wouldn’t happen if the SEC was head-and-shoulders above the Big XII. [When comparing the last 3 years of Big XII play with the first 3 years of SEC play -- Mizzu went from a 15-10 record with 0 division championships in Big XII play to 16-8 and and 2 division championships in SEC; TAMU went from 13-12 in Big-XII to 13-11 in SEC]

Because the increased revenues they got from joining the SEC did absolutely nothing to help their ability to spend on their programs (not that A&M was ever starving), and the increased views did nothing for their recruiting? Is that what you are trying to say? I had forgotten Missouri even had a football team until they joined the SEC, and I am sure I am not alone in that. You are trying to make some good points in this thread, and I appreciate that it is not just a smack talk post, but it sounds more like one of those "I'm not saying, but I'm just saying" things.

It is also funny you point to the teams failing to stop Big 12 teams when some of those same teams were ones you had on your list of teams you say OU is better than (using the S&P as your backup for this claim). I am not saying you are wrong in thinking you are better than they are, but using them for those two points seems a bit contradictory.
 
I think most Sooners have a great respect for this years Bama offense, most are simply hoping that we win in a shootout where our defense gets a few stops and our offense is "on".
That's the way Oklahoma wins. Any defense, no matter how great it is will get worn out if the pace is high enough. So Oklahoma has to hope for a shootout and then a lucky shot, or two. They don't have the defense Georgia does so they can't hope to win with that sort of score.
 
I think most Sooners have a great respect for this years Bama offense, most are simply hoping that we win in a shootout where our defense gets a few stops and our offense is "on".
That's a pretty good "glass half full" view. I think it's accurate. A couple of Bama turnovers would help... :)
 
If you’re like me, you’re patiently waiting for this year’s Orange Bowl CFP game between mighty Bama and my Sooners. It pits the Heisman Trophy winner against the Heisman runner-up. It features the best Big XII offense against one of the best (if not the best) SEC defenses. It features a duel between one of the games most successful veteran coaches ever in Saban against a bright up-and-comer in Riley.

In my readings of various Tide fans, I’ve came across a number of storylines from Bama fans that certainly run counter to the views held by many Sooner fans who’ve followed OU closely this year. So in an effort to provide some interest to the game (not trying to troll here, just provide a respectful difference of opinion), I’ll list a few storylines where there’s probably a big discrepancy between what most Tide fans and most Sooners believe:
1) The Discussed Storyline: Kyler Murray is a Big XII system passer: his touchdown passes are often off-the-mark and he’s feasted on poor defenses. Put him against Bama pressure and bump coverage and he’ll fold.

A Sooner’s viewpoint: Murray has set the record for highest QB rating EVER so he’s not just another QB. Plus, any discussion of Murray should also include OU’s OL which is exceptional. Finally, Kyler is blessed with nerves of steel. He’s definitely human and has struggled on rare occasions, but he has never been taken out of the game mentally (witness his late game heroics against UT in the first OU-UT matchup).


2) The Discussed Storyline: OU’s defense is historically bad and will be the worse defense Bama sees all year.

A Sooner’s viewpoint: I’m confident OU’s defense has performed better than several of Bama’s opponents this season, but objectively comparing OU and Bama’s 2018 opponents is difficult because Bama and OU have played against different teams. However we can turn to the FootballOutsiders S&P+ ratings BECAUSE it attempts to normalize for competition. They rate OU’s defense as stronger than 5 of Bama’s 2018 opponents: Louisville, Ole Miss, LA Lafayette, Tennessee, and The Citadel.


3) The Discussed Storyline: Bama should have success containing Murray with a single LB acting as a spy. The Longhorns were successful with this approach.

A Sooner’s viewpoint: Texas did use a spy approach (along with several other teams); however I feel like the offense had a pretty good game against the Longhorns in both meetings this year. I also think it would take an exceptional effort by a LB to contain Kyler Murray for 60 minutes (Kyler’s both shifty and quick as a runner, and accurate as a passer).


4) The Discussed Storyline: This year the SEC has tamed those high-flying Big XII offenses.

A Sooner’s Viewpoint: We have three SEC/BigXII matchups from this season. They are: WVU 40 / Tenn 14, KSU 10 / Miss St 31, Texas Tech 27 / Ole Miss 47. [It’s worth noting that 5 of the 6 teams had a returning QB with various levels of game experience from previous seasons, but Texas Tech had a freshman playing in his first college game in a QB-centric offense. In my experience, a freshman QB often improves dramatically over and above their first game against a P5 opponent – and indeed, Texas Tech’s offense improved over the course of the year. (BTW, Tua recorded a 25% completion rate in his first game against a P5 opponent.)]

Looking a little deeper, Tennessee didn’t stop WVU (WVU punted one time), Miss State did a good job against KSU holding them to 10, and Ole Miss did a reasonable job against a freshman QB starting his first college game. From SEC league play, we learn that Tennessee had a fair defense, Miss State had a very good defense, and Ole Miss had a fair defense. WVU ended 6-3 in conference, KSU ended 3-6 in conference, and Texas Tech ended 3-6 in conference. Meanwhile, Miss State ended 4-4 in conference, Ole Miss ended 1-7 in conference, and Tennessee ended 2-6 in conference. Only three games makes any assessment a challenge, but I’d say the results are consistent with what was expected based off Big XII and SEC league play.

5) The Discussed Storyline: The SEC is head-and-shoulders better than the Big XII in football.

A Sooner’s Viewpoint: Those living in SEC country probably don’t realize the amount of hype that some media outlets shovel about the greatness of the SEC, and it's no surprise when you run into football fans from other conferences if the discussion turns to chagrin about how the SEC promotion. Certainly Bama has earned special recognition, but is the rest of the conference really head-and-shoulders better than other conferences? When Mizzu and Texas A&M went from Big XII to SEC – they remained at the same level or actually improved their in-conference records. That wouldn’t happen if the SEC was head-and-shoulders above the Big XII. [When comparing the last 3 years of Big XII play with the first 3 years of SEC play -- Mizzu went from a 15-10 record with 0 division championships in Big XII play to 16-8 and and 2 division championships in SEC; TAMU went from 13-12 in Big-XII to 13-11 in SEC]

So there's definitely some discrepancies among fan bases. It will be interesting to see how the game plays out.
I won't blow everything you've said out of the water but I will concentrate on Ole Miss and Texas Tech, which you bring up as having a worse defense than OU, and you justify Texas Tech's blow out by Ole Miss but fail to mention that OU beat Texas Tech by only 5 points and got torched by their QB's.

OU had to beat Army in over time. Beat Texas Tech by 5. Beat Okie St by 1. Beat WVU by 3. OU could very easily be a 7-5 team instead of an 11-1 team. Why? Because OU's defense sucks and if I'm not mistaken OU doesn't really have a defensive coordinator after losing to Texas.
 
Warriors88, you over state what you think "OU fans" think.

I have seen enough bama ball this season to know the offense is prolific and attacks through the air and on the ground, difficult to contain, let alone stop, with not one but two first team level QB's.

Complementing that is a defense with NFL-ready players that have overmatched every opponent they've faced.

Yes, Sooners have confidence in an offense that is better than last year when we thought it couldn't get any better.

I don't expect a Sooner victory but maybe this game is going to be closer than some of you think.

Speaking solely for myself (although, I believe some share my thoughts), I fully expect a close shootout.
 
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