The running game... or lack thereof
- Thread starter BamaNation
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I’m just not sure he’s built to be an every down back. Plus he’d have to be better at picking up the blitz
Let the big dog eat!
Yeah gotta go with hot hand sometimes, a la Mark Ingram against USCar in 2009...
I'm not an o-line guy, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn, but...
1) I tend to think o-line success is directly tied to reps w/each other. CKD and the offensive staff have played a lot more guys than is the norm. I don't know if that's their method for getting younger guys more legit reps, or if they're searching for the best combo of guys up front.
2) Not all running plays are purely on the o-line. I seem to remember our RBs missing the hole, or cutback, at times this season. Whatever the reason, the vision isn't clicking. Maybe they've been impatient at times.
3) Given the passing offense leanings of CKD and Grubbs, I do think they run the ball more to break up the passing. The Vandy and Mizzou games have shown increased success in running the ball - is that due to the defenses the offense has faced? I guess the UT game will clear that question up one way or the other.
1) I tend to think o-line success is directly tied to reps w/each other. CKD and the offensive staff have played a lot more guys than is the norm. I don't know if that's their method for getting younger guys more legit reps, or if they're searching for the best combo of guys up front.
2) Not all running plays are purely on the o-line. I seem to remember our RBs missing the hole, or cutback, at times this season. Whatever the reason, the vision isn't clicking. Maybe they've been impatient at times.
3) Given the passing offense leanings of CKD and Grubbs, I do think they run the ball more to break up the passing. The Vandy and Mizzou games have shown increased success in running the ball - is that due to the defenses the offense has faced? I guess the UT game will clear that question up one way or the other.
Last game it seemed like Mizzou called run blitzes/lbs reacting correctly on a lot of running plays so that’s concerning. It’s a combo of RBs missing holes and bad blocks and d playing it well.
one post mentioned the avg per rush puts us in a good situation on 3rd down. No it doesn’t because that avg is skewed and we aren’t getting the 3 plus per run in actuality.
reality is the team needs to get better on the ground because at some point these 4th down conversions are going to fail. Need to be better on the ground and get a push vs relying on gimmick plays and 4th downs.
one post mentioned the avg per rush puts us in a good situation on 3rd down. No it doesn’t because that avg is skewed and we aren’t getting the 3 plus per run in actuality.
reality is the team needs to get better on the ground because at some point these 4th down conversions are going to fail. Need to be better on the ground and get a push vs relying on gimmick plays and 4th downs.
I'd love to have a more potent running attack, but if we average 3.89 ypc then that makes it basically 3 yards or less to go on 3rd down. Considering the fact that we (and pretty much everyone else) are in 4 down territory whenever you're across the opponent's 45 when it's less than 3 yards to go, then maybe it's not as bad as it seems.
The game has changed so much that maybe 4 ypc is good enough these days.
Not necessarily what I would like, but maybe it's good enough?
The game has changed so much that maybe 4 ypc is good enough these days.
Not necessarily what I would like, but maybe it's good enough?
Ty has 100 yards in sack yards lost this season which is counted against the rushing stats. Also, the "cute" handoffs, "sweeps" and behind the line passes to Bernard that have lost yardage also count against the rushing totals as well. The last two games (for sure) we've rushed the ball a lot better and the offensive line is opening up more holes. I wonder what our yards per rush is just counting the actual running back carries? If it's 3.8 with sacks allowed and the cute plays that have counted as rushes but gone for losses, then I would venture to say we are probably over 4 yards per carry. Is it 2015 Derrick Henry level? No, but this offense isn't designed for that type of runner and I don't think we can expect old school Saban type of rushing stats with this staff.
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And the injuries to Jam Miller, absense of Justice Haynes, and inexperience and lack of size of the back-ups.
CKD said Daniel Hill is starting to get good at blitz pickups and should be seeing more reps. A running back his size we really need to take advantage of, especially if J Miller is going to be out this Saturday.
I think you are basically agreeing my point, it’s skewed either way. You can just look at the RB avg per carry to see which is a healthy 4.6 and 4.2 for Jam and Riley.
My point there was people can’t say running is this XXX avg per carry and assume you gain those yards. It’s very misleading and just factually incorrect. Especially in this type of offense which you said as well Bama is not designed to run it three times and get a first. Not saying the avg is bad but the run game needs to improve/be more consistent. Having the best RB out most of season overall at this point hurts the consistency and also another example of how stats are skewed and shouldn’t be used as mentioned. Lack of being able to get 1-3 yards on third down from a run can lose a game, being able to pick it up consistently isn’t easy though and takes an elite team. Having to consistently make 4th downs is the nerve wracking part at this point.
note: most of these discussions are nitpicking especially in this brutal stretch.
Has been spotted working on kicking field goals yesterday.
You mentioned earlier UW during CKD's tenure there... and especially the 2023 season. In his last and most successful season there, UW had 6,931 total yards - 1,776 rushing and 5,155 receiving (that's 26% rushing and 74% passing). At this point in the season, UA has 2,586 total - 759 and 1,827 (29% and 71%). In addition, as you note, UA has allowed 100 yards of sacks (which subtracts from rushing total) and UW's stats from 2023 also included sack yardage (couldn't find actual stats on the amount).
Here's my take on the matter. Whether we average 3.8 or 4.5 per rush, I don't think it really matters due to the fact that we can almost complete short passes at will - think about the short TD pass to Hill on Saturday. IF, like last year, we don't have a short passing attack then this becomes a bigger issue IMO. More than anything else, I think we see Deboer's philosophy at work here. In 2022, UW was at 28% rushing and 72% passing. As long as we're around 30-70 on run to pass, that's who we should be in his offensive philosophy.
I think the anxiousness about a balanced running game comes primarily from the Saban tenure. Check out the years and percentages of run/pass. 2023 (Milroe QB) - 44/56; 2022 (Young - QB) - 40/60; 2021 - (Young QB) - 31/69; 2020 - (Jones QB) - 34/66; 2019 (Tua QB for 9 games) - 33/67; 2018 (Tua QB) - 38/62; 2017 (Hurts QB) - 56/44; 2016 (Hurts QB) - 53/47. In Saban's era when he had a "running QB)... we see an average of 51/49. However, when Saban had a "passing QB", we see 35/65 and later in his tenure (except for 23 with a "running QB"), we saw UA trend to a more passing offense. Deboer's stats, though nothing like Saban's earlier years, aren't too far off his last few years when he had a "passing QB". Yet another factor here is the talent on offense. LSU in 2019 and UA in 2020 upped the passing %'s in winning a natty - much more "pass happy" than say 2023 Michigan or 2021/2022 UGA. Why??? It was due to the fact that their talent at QB and WR was far above average in those years. Looking at our talent on offense this year, what should we probably expect? As long as we're around 30/70, I'm not going to worry too much about average rushing yards per attempt or rushing yards per game- as long as we can maintain a short passing game.
The important thing to note is that DeBoer has never had a good running game, ever. A thousand yard rusher looks good on paper, but that was a one man show at running back, the #2 rusher was a wide receiver, you can't expect to make it through an SEC schedule with only one running back.
I think what we're seeing is just ingrained into their approach, it even carried over with Grubb to the NFL. However, it is worth noting that in 2019 Grubb was the OC for Fresno St. before DeBoer was there. They managed the 59th rushing offense, which doesn't sound like much but that I think would be a high for either of them without a running QB. It then fell off a cliff the next year (with the same running back), once DeBoer arrived.
So, I think there's a systematic problem here that for some reason a lot of people overlooked. However, they seem to be aware of it and are attempting to address it. You can't win in the SEC with no running game, you can't win if your second best rusher is a receiver (happened multiple years). They just have to adapt and there are some signs they are trying to and are starting to, but learning new things can't be easy.
I would note that you are pointing to years where the Alabama offense went off track though. The only year in which the starting QB won a championship out of those seasons also coincided with a Heisman candidate at running back. Otherwise those are pretty much all years where the running backs tended to be under-utilized and they overly relied on QB play. Specifically that's 7 years with the only championship being a late QB swap (which kind of re-calibrated the offense). I don't see that as a roadmap for success but rather where things started to go wrong.
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With all this, the O is light years better than last year. Simpson and Grubbs primarily IMO.
Would bet that the majority of practice snaps for the RBs this week DO NOT have them touching the ball!
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