Immigration and Customs Enforcement (I.C.E.) (part II)

Most of them contribute to our society anyway doing jobs for pay that is considered too low for most “legal” people.

I’ve never said we shouldn’t remove violent criminals from US society.

The problem is they are targeting non violent immigrants or even people who look like immigrants and treating them as if they are violent criminals and in a way that reflects they are thought of as sub-human and are to be removed by any means necessary.

I’ll probably be in the minority in this view and I don’t care.

Humans should treat other humans as equals.

Do you think those jobs pay so low because of the illegals and their willingness to undercut the American worker? If they weren't there to offer that level of pay, something other than paying too low of wages would have to be done. Framing houses and concrete work come to mind in my neck of the woods. You don't see any non hispanic framers framing houses anymore or doing concrete work, and it isn't because there weren't any "legals" willing to do the work. They undercut them so bad they went out of business. I lost two accounting clients who did framing and the other did concrete work. They had illegals undercutting their prices so bad they couldn't compete . They no longer could support their family. People like them are an afterthought to our politicians in American politics. Their families are just as human and just as important as the illegals'. Granted, I also blame the contractors for hiring them which is why I am a big advocate of going after them first and hammering the hell out of them financially.

Regarding illegals who commit "non violent" crimes. I think using the term "non violent" minimizes the seriousness of other crimes as if they don't matter and don't negatively impact citizens' lives. Theft is a big deal with illegals in our area. We live on the Texas border and get a high number of illegals coming into our area and stealing anything they can from your property. We had two illegals back during the holidays try to steal my son's vehicle from our driveway. Guy at our church had his body shop broken into and had over $15,000 worth of tools and equipment taken. Got them on security video but they were long gone by the time he noticed.

Depending on which angle you run the numbers, illegals can be good for some sectors of the economy. They're great for people (like contractors) who hire them, pay them extremely low wages yet still charge the customer as if they're paying their workers American wages. But they're not good for the guy who lost his business to them and now has to find other ways to provide for his family. They're not good for the family who already has to put up with crime (such as theft) from citizens, but now has to deal with illegals stealing from them as well. I'm all for immigration, it is one of the things that has made our country great and kept us on the cutting edge of things. But I'm not for continuing to lower standards of how we allow immigrants to come in, especially to the point where we're saying "as long as it wasn't a non violent crime lets not worry about it". I don't like that approach and I don't think it should be a part of the justification for turning a blind eye to people entering the country illegally.

I'll borrow from your disclaimer and say, I'm probably in the minority on this view but I don't care.
 
But your answer misses the entire point that there is a (seemingly large) segment on the left that’s fine with allowing illegals to stay, regardless as to ICE’s actions - they were saying this (and asking for amnesty) when Biden was in office and left the border wide open.

You don’t like his point, that’s fine. But he’s not wrong that even if ICE went away tomorrow there’s a large percentage of the left that would want to allow illegals to stay.
i'm not missing anything.
 
i'm not missing anything.
So you agree that there is a large percentage of the left that’s fine with illegals but that Desantis pointed it out is incorrect?

Or are you suggesting the left is largely bereft of those who wish to allow illegals to stay as long as they’re not committing violent crime?
 
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like many on here, i have no problem with enforcing immigration laws. i do have problems with the vicious, lawless, and ham fisted way it’s being done by the administration, which they are justifying in large part by claiming they are going against gangsters and hardened criminals and these means are necessary
I agree that ICE needs to be reeled in but seeing the personality of the president, it doesn't surprise me it has progressed to that. I have no problem with ICE agents defending themselves, but I also am not an advocate of causing a fight so you can "justify" defending yourself. Those who do that should be prosecuted , fired and lose their benefits they've earned from their governmental job.

I also think "peacefully" protesting has gotten very loose in it's translation as well. I've watched too many news clips where I've literally watched unprovoked "peaceful" protestors charge an officer and spit at them. That needs to be dealt with as well.
 
So you agree that there is a large percentage of the left that’s fine with illegals but that Desantis pointed it out is incorrect?

Or are you suggesting the left is largely bereft of those who wish to allow illegals to stay as long as they’re not committing violent crime?
i think you, like mr desantis are greatly oversimplifying the issue to try to make a point
 
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Do you think those jobs pay so low because of the illegals and their willingness to undercut the American worker? If they weren't there to offer that level of pay, something other than paying too low of wages would have to be done. Framing houses and concrete work come to mind in my neck of the woods. You don't see any non hispanic framers framing houses anymore or doing concrete work, and it isn't because there weren't any "legals" willing to do the work. They undercut them so bad they went out of business. I lost two accounting clients who did framing and the other did concrete work. They had illegals undercutting their prices so bad they couldn't compete . They no longer could support their family. People like them are an afterthought to our politicians in American politics. Their families are just as human and just as important as the illegals'. Granted, I also blame the contractors for hiring them which is why I am a big advocate of going after them first and hammering the hell out of them financially.

Regarding illegals who commit "non violent" crimes. I think using the term "non violent" minimizes the seriousness of other crimes as if they don't matter and don't negatively impact citizens' lives. Theft is a big deal with illegals in our area. We live on the Texas border and get a high number of illegals coming into our area and stealing anything they can from your property. We had two illegals back during the holidays try to steal my son's vehicle from our driveway. Guy at our church had his body shop broken into and had over $15,000 worth of tools and equipment taken. Got them on security video but they were long gone by the time he noticed.

Depending on which angle you run the numbers, illegals can be good for some sectors of the economy. They're great for people (like contractors) who hire them, pay them extremely low wages yet still charge the customer as if they're paying their workers American wages. But they're not good for the guy who lost his business to them and now has to find other ways to provide for his family. They're not good for the family who already has to put up with crime (such as theft) from citizens, but now has to deal with illegals stealing from them as well. I'm all for immigration, it is one of the things that has made our country great and kept us on the cutting edge of things. But I'm not for continuing to lower standards of how we allow immigrants to come in, especially to the point where we're saying "as long as it wasn't a non violent crime lets not worry about it". I don't like that approach and I don't think it should be a part of the justification for turning a blind eye to people entering the country illegally.

I'll borrow from your disclaimer and say, I'm probably in the minority on this view but I don't care.

I should have clarified and said I have no problem with deporting immigrants who are criminals violent or otherwise.

I stressed the violent category because that is who ICE is primarily supposed to be going after.

But yes thieves should be deported too I agree with that.

ICE is just indiscriminately going after anybody that fits a stereotype though and handling them all as if they slot into the worst category.

I honestly don’t know the answer to the dilemma of people undercutting others work.

I didn’t have the specific jobs in mind that you touched on and I understand your point there.

I have a hard time not siding with non violent non criminal immigrants even if they are technically ‘illegal’ though because of how they are being handled.

There is so much hate and propaganda coming from the Top painting almost anyone who is Hispanic looking as some kind of threat to society and it’s just not right.

I don’t have the answers to the whole problem but the way ICE is handling it is wrong.
 
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The footage seemed to undermine the initial Homeland Security claim that Martinez and another man “rammed” the Tahoe driven by Exum that also carried the two additional agents. It also appears to support Martinez’s claim that Exum swerved his Tahoe in her direction.

In text messages after the shooting, Exum wrote that his superiors had been supportive, making references to U.S. Border Patrol Cmdr. Gregory Bovino, Border Patrol Chief Michael Banks and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.

“Big time,” Exum wrote. “Everyone has been including Chief Bovino, Chief Banks, Sec Noem and El Jefe himself … according to Bovino.”

At the press conference Parente said ‘El Jefe’ appears to be a reference to President Donald Trump.
 
So you agree that there is a large percentage of the left that’s fine with illegals but that Desantis pointed it out is incorrect?

Or are you suggesting the left is largely bereft of those who wish to allow illegals to stay as long as they’re not committing violent crime?

It's not just the left:
Nearly 6 in 10 voters (59 percent) say they would prefer giving most undocumented immigrants in the United States a pathway to legal status, while 34 percent say they would prefer deporting most undocumented immigrants in the United States.

1770857639034.png
 
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It's not just the left:
Nearly 6 in 10 voters (59 percent) say they would prefer giving most undocumented immigrants in the United States a pathway to legal status, while 34 percent say they would prefer deporting most undocumented immigrants in the United States.

View attachment 55594
I mean...

1770858029538.png
 
92% of Democrats and 61% of independents are not part of the left (at least from where I am on the political spectrum, YMMV). According to this poll, the majority of registered voters favor a pathway to citizenship. I do agree that most of "the left" would be part of that category.
The stats pretty much prove what Desantis said - the left (92% of dems) largely wants to let the illegals stay, while only 4% of dems want them deported.

Not really sure what you're arguing when it's what I've been saying all along.

We can agree that the way ICE is acting is often unhelpful or downright wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that the poll proves precisely what was posted above.
 
The stats pretty much prove what Desantis said - the left (92% of dems) largely wants to let the illegals stay, while only 4% of dems want them deported.

Not really sure what you're arguing when it's what I've been saying all along.

We can agree that the way ICE is acting is often unhelpful or downright wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that the poll proves precisely what was posted above.
I'm not arguing at all - I agree with what you said. I'm just pointing out that most American voters are in favor of a path to citizenship. It's not accurate to frame it as a left-wing stance.
 
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Remember Corporate America wanted or incentivized much of the issue we have. They wanted access to the cheap labor to improve profit margins, and still do. So blame them more than our political parties.

If we were serious about fixing the issue, then we would open more customs offices and detention centers in every state encouraging all current illegals to apply for visa and file a naturalization application if they seek permanent citizenship. Accelerate the naturalization process to 2 years but include denaturalization-deportation to penalties for certain crimes convicted for a period of 20 years after your naturalization application is accepted.

Once the visa is obtained, you are afforded the normal constitutional protections available to citizens. Under an approved naturalization application, after the 2 years, the applicant is eligible to vote in any and all federal, state, and local elections.

If you choose not to apply for the visa, and remain here illegally, then you are subject to felony conviction, a due process hearing, and immediate deportation (or prison sentence for 1yr) for you and your immediate family.

Authorize local law enforcement to enforce the law as part of normal law enforcement, meaning they have to be detained for some other infraction other than suspicion of immigration status.

If our Congress wants to solve the issue in a moderate bipartisan fashion, it aint that hard.
 
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