Thank you for a rational post. I've never understood why the bleeding hearts think a bad person can't suffer consequences unless they go through the court process first. Michael Vick is an EMPLOYEE of Arthur Blank and can be shown the door anytime Mr. Blank chooses.
Michael Vick........former Falcons QB legal problems
- Thread starter JH-ATL
- Start date
Thank you for a rational post. I've never understood why the bleeding hearts think a bad person can't suffer consequences unless they go through the court process first. Michael Vick is an EMPLOYEE of Arthur Blank and can be shown the door anytime Mr. Blank chooses.
People often misunderstand what "innocent until proven guilty" means. It only means that, within a criminal case, the defendant is presumed to be innocent and must be proven guilty; the fact that the defendant was indicted doesn't prove anything in the criminal case.
That doesn't carry over outside that. Employers can fire someone because they are charged with misconduct unless they have their own rules that restrict that. If a company is indicted for fraud in government contracts, they can be barred from new contracts pending trial and "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't help them. (That happens to be part of my job as a government lawyer.)
I've read the indictment. Vick is charged with conspiracy. That means that (allegedly) he and other people agreed to do a criminal act and at least one action was taken in furtherence of the conspiracy. The indictment alleges bunches of them. Once you join a conspiracy, you are criminally responsible for the acts that go on even if you aren't there and might not know that they happen.
As to sentencing, if he is convicted, the Federal sentencing guidelines are tough and almost require jail time. Also, there is no parole and not much hope of appeal bonds (ask Siegelman) in the Federal system.
Odds are, one of his co-defendants will make a deal to testify against him to save himself. Happens all the time.
That doesn't carry over outside that. Employers can fire someone because they are charged with misconduct unless they have their own rules that restrict that. If a company is indicted for fraud in government contracts, they can be barred from new contracts pending trial and "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't help them. (That happens to be part of my job as a government lawyer.)
I've read the indictment. Vick is charged with conspiracy. That means that (allegedly) he and other people agreed to do a criminal act and at least one action was taken in furtherence of the conspiracy. The indictment alleges bunches of them. Once you join a conspiracy, you are criminally responsible for the acts that go on even if you aren't there and might not know that they happen.
As to sentencing, if he is convicted, the Federal sentencing guidelines are tough and almost require jail time. Also, there is no parole and not much hope of appeal bonds (ask Siegelman) in the Federal system.
Odds are, one of his co-defendants will make a deal to testify against him to save himself. Happens all the time.
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PaulD
You are trying to go back to "court rules".
You did not hear/feel/see/understand/careabout my point.........this is not in the government court...lawyer jargan does not now count...it is now in the "court of public opinion" and in that court we the public make the rules of what we decide......I will not repeat all of the prior offenses, I left a couple off in the sence of urgency in the other post.
He has been "tried in our court of public opinion" guilty on all counts and has to go and go NOW.
Forget the legalize, lawyer, day in court B/S talk.......we are now in the court of "public opinion".......our rules...not lawyer/legalize/court now apply!!!!!!!!!!!
HE HAS BEEN DETERMINED GUILTY AND HAS TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
You are trying to go back to "court rules".
You did not hear/feel/see/understand/careabout my point.........this is not in the government court...lawyer jargan does not now count...it is now in the "court of public opinion" and in that court we the public make the rules of what we decide......I will not repeat all of the prior offenses, I left a couple off in the sence of urgency in the other post.
He has been "tried in our court of public opinion" guilty on all counts and has to go and go NOW.
Forget the legalize, lawyer, day in court B/S talk.......we are now in the court of "public opinion".......our rules...not lawyer/legalize/court now apply!!!!!!!!!!!
HE HAS BEEN DETERMINED GUILTY AND HAS TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
Actually, I think you misunderstood my first point, which was how the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" really doesn't apply outside of the criminal case. You and I are free to form our own conclusions that he did or didn't do it.
My later point about conspiracy and aspects of Federal procedures was to counter some of the arguments I had seen posted.
BocaLance
Right to where the rubber hits the road...simple,short and easy to understand.
Congratulations for the best explanation to date!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin::biggrin2::biggrin2:
Right to where the rubber hits the road...simple,short and easy to understand.
Congratulations for the best explanation to date!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin::biggrin2::biggrin2:
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What I also find funny is that Michael Vick's dogs also stunk at the inhumane sport of dog fighting and nearly always lost. Good work there, Mr. Vick, see you in 15 to 20.
ok,,,so the dog decides to fight the charge and takes it to court and the judge asks the dog how do you plea,,,,,:conf3:
Surry County Commonwealth’s Attorney Gerald Poindexter should be held accountable for his actions or or lack there of. If you remember he refused to carry out the search warrant because he did not like the way it was worded (BS), The minute it expired the Feds raided the place.
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=128721&ran=25286&tref=po
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=128721&ran=25286&tref=po
I think that has to do with a person's liability for their pet attacking another person.
Re: Michael Vick........former Falcons QB to be
I got in on this thread late. Sorry if this has already been said but some of this stuff makes me sick. I dont agree with dog fighting or any other kind of animal fighting. Its a damn shame though when one can get in more trouble hurting an animal than for hurting another human being. I know this has nothing to do with Michael Vick and his problems but that really does set me off. And thats the direction these kind of things seem to be going.
I got in on this thread late. Sorry if this has already been said but some of this stuff makes me sick. I dont agree with dog fighting or any other kind of animal fighting. Its a damn shame though when one can get in more trouble hurting an animal than for hurting another human being. I know this has nothing to do with Michael Vick and his problems but that really does set me off. And thats the direction these kind of things seem to be going.
I think we have a bit of species confusion here. 
Dogs don't commit misdemeanors - can't form intent (despite the fact that citizens of the State of Tennessee once lynched an elephant for homicide). To re-draw a bright line, this site has always protected our players (and staff) against "rushes to judgment." And that's the reason a couple of threads are locked right now. For one thing, these particular guys are juveniles. For another, just like the victors write history, the arresting authorities write the arrest reports, which is one reason they aren't admissible in evidence. These reports may turn out to have some holes, which is one main reason we restrain discussion until the facts are out and known, when it comes to kids who happen to be our players. Meanwhile, you can say anything you want about Vick. Add Barry Bonds...
Dogs don't commit misdemeanors - can't form intent (despite the fact that citizens of the State of Tennessee once lynched an elephant for homicide). To re-draw a bright line, this site has always protected our players (and staff) against "rushes to judgment." And that's the reason a couple of threads are locked right now. For one thing, these particular guys are juveniles. For another, just like the victors write history, the arresting authorities write the arrest reports, which is one reason they aren't admissible in evidence. These reports may turn out to have some holes, which is one main reason we restrain discussion until the facts are out and known, when it comes to kids who happen to be our players. Meanwhile, you can say anything you want about Vick. Add Barry Bonds... It's not a misdemeanor for the animal. Rather, it's one for animal's owner.
Animals don't get charged with crimes. Generally they just get executed (some say "euthanized"), often on the spot.
It's hard to make general statements like the one you quote since laws vary widely from state to state and sometimes don't even make much sense within even a single state. In Alabama cruelty to a dog or cat is a felony but cruelty to horse is a misdemeanor.
so,,i guess that means that a dog cant fight a charge and make a flea,,ummm plea to the judge?:biggrin: i stand corrected:BigA:
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