The State of Alabama vs Public Schools

[81usaf92]

I honestly don’t know where to put this or how broad this topic is going to be but I think this is going to become a huge subject because of the implications of what happens in this particular case has.

Okay for context…

-the AHSAA is the Alabama High School Athletic Association. It is a body that governs all public school sports. However many major private schools participate in it.

-The AISA is the Alabama Independent School Association. It is a private school only association.

-The Choose Act is Alabama’s version of the state using taxpayer funds to pay for kids to attend private schools or homeschool if they choose. It allows immediate transfers. Basically it’s what every red state is doing since the Trump part of the party believes in it. It has passed into law. Basically it is seen as an attack on public schools because it is basically encouraging parents to send their kids to private schools or homeschool them by giving them stipends.

Okay so what has happened is that the AHSAA has stuck to a ruling that a kid must sit out a year if they transfer. This goes for private and public school kids. The governor and the AG has gotten involved in it because it threatens the Choose Act in their opinion because it makes parents concerned about losing a year of eligibility for transferring. This has always been a rule, and it really has exposed the true intentions of the governor and AG because they have sued the AHSAA and got an injunction.

So why does this matter…

Well it matters because the AHSAA in response has met with all of it private school members that are a part of their organization during the injunction and have pushed back the reclassification meetings back a month. This has made it highly likely that the AHSAA is considering kicking out all of the private schools to make the state’s lawsuit on them irrelevant.

Some may say “well this a public school entity so good riddance”. Well the problem is now you are going to have thousands of kids in limbo because they have been told a bunch of promises by the governor about what was going to be legal and what is not. Then you are going to make all new classifications and no one knows where they are going except the ultra big schools and the smallest schools. Anyone from 2A to 6A has no clue who is going to be where or playing who.

Then you have the private schools side. You have basically told 40-50 schools to figure out their own affairs within the matter of 4 months. Sure alot of people say “well there is always the AISA”. Well that is not a certainty either. Most of the schools that could potentially be on the chopping block have never been part of their organization during AISA and for the AISA to take them in they would have to make makeshift classifications as well. Also the AISA doesn’t make near the same amount of money as the AHSAA nor does it have anywhere the resources that the AHSAA has. So it’s likely to kill alot of private school programs in the process.

Again this is just a very possible outcome to the Governor’s involvement in the situation. I don’t know if a compromise will be reached because there is a mass majority of 3A to 5A public schools that are very much for a break between the two types of schools to happen. I just think the state getting involved has totally put the future of Alabama high school athletics in great jeopardy. We will know late January what ultimately happens but I think the AHSAA is fighting harder than the NCAA did against the government to keep their power.

 

[JDCrimson]

I think the transfer rule should be upheld. The Choose Act transfers should be for academics first not athletics first.

 

[81usaf92]

I think the transfer rule should be upheld. The Choose Act transfers should be for academics first not athletics first.

The idea behind the transfer rule is more or less the idea around the old transfer rule in the NCAA in that you shouldn’t be able to go place to place knowing everyone’s system and being able to use it against them the next year. Another reason it’s there is because everyone and their mother knows that NIL in Alabama high schools is not far away and it’s not too outlandish to think rich schools paying kids at poor county schools to come. Granted this happens today but forcing them to sit out puts a huge penalty on the individual and school who did it.

I think like everything else, the Choose Act on paper looks like a great idea on paper but the devil is really in the details.

 

[JDCrimson]

In order to transfer you also are supposed to make a bona fide into the school district. That requirement doesnt apply for a private school. If they don't have some sort of transfer rule, we will wind up in Alabama with the current NCAA system players just moving all over the place with no restrictions. And there are a lot coaches in Alabama more than willing to exploit the open transfer opportunities.

 

[Tidewater]

This seems like the enticement of the enormous amounts of money in pro sports trickling through college to high school.
I was just thinking yesterday how much Archie (Sr.) Manning made as an NFL player versus how much Payton and Eli made (and how much Archie Jr. might make).
As a parent, what is 49-1 more important in high school is how well they teach compared to how successful the sports programs are. If my son is a gifted athlete, he might be good enough to get offered an NCAA scholarship in his sport. 95-99% of high school athletes will not. If he gets into a truly elite college sports program (tOSU, Alabama, UGA, Clempson), he might be good enough to get an offer in the pros. 99% of the college athletes and 95% of the athletes at elite schools will not. That means .01% will get that professional sports money. And most of them will not make millions. Most will make at or near league minimum, and only for a few years.

Meanwhile 100% of the students at my local high school will sink or swim in life to the extent that their high school academically prepares them for life.
High school athletics are important (I learned a lot about myself and about life playing football in high school), but by no means am I willing to sacrifice the 99.99% in an effort to enable the 0.01%.

 

[81usaf92]

In order to transfer you also are supposed to make a bona fide into the school district. That requirement doesnt apply for a private school. If they don't have some sort of transfer rule, we will wind up in Alabama with the current NCAA system players just moving all over the place with no restrictions. And there are a lot coaches in Alabama more than willing to exploit the open transfer opportunities.

Yes but it does affect those private school students under the Choose Act because it’s a financial incentive. That’s the issue. The public school fear of it is that taking away that barrier like the governor is demanding is going to lead to open recruiting by private schools. The fear is mostly at the 3A to 5A level. In 3A alone, the round of 16 was filled with 8 private schools in football.

Granted the counter argument has always been “well Thompson, Saraland, and Gulf Shores gets away with it all the time as public schools” but again they have to follow transfer rules. No whether the AHSAA can immediately enforce it is a different story.

 

[81usaf92]

This seems like the enticement of the enormous amounts of money in pro sports trickling through college to high school.
I was just thinking yesterday how much Archie (Sr.) Manning made as an NFL player versus how much Payton and Eli made (and how much Archie Jr. might make).
As a parent, what is 49-1 more important in high school is how well they teach compared to how successful the sports programs are. If my son is a gifted athlete, he might be good enough to get offered an NCAA scholarship in his sport. 95-99% of high school athletes will not. If he gets into a truly elite college sports program (tOSU, Alabama, UGA, Clempson), he might be good enough to get an offer in the pros. 99% of the college athletes and 95% of the athletes at elite schools will not. That means .01% will get that professional sports money. And most of them will not make millions. Most will make at or near league minimum, and only for a few years.

Meanwhile 100% of the students at my local high school will sink or swim in life to the extent that their high school academically prepares them for life.
High school athletics are important (I learned a lot about myself and about life playing football in high school), but by no means am I willing to sacrifice the 99.99% in an effort to enable the 0.01%.

Well this whole issue is very complex. On one hand you have the state government trying to enforce the Trump platform on educational stipends on the other you have the state government trying to tell an athletic organization how it can operate. I think the problem is more that the state is trying to impose their power in an effort to show support for the current administration’s stance on education but are unaware of the floodgates that they are about to unleash.

Athletics shouldn’t trump academics in school but unfortunately they do in many cases in Alabama. It’s a truth we have to live with. With the NIL in high school possibly coming to the state of Alabama in the future it’s going to get even worse. But the governor’s will to break the AHSAA is going to ultimately result in the same thing as the NIL and transfer portal lawsuits had on NCAA. It’s going to create recruiting without the fear of consequences.

I’m not for taxpayer money going towards private schools and homeschooling but if it is a law that it has to then I believe that the AHSAA’s financial incentive policy stands

 

[Tidewater]

Well this whole issue is very complex. On one hand you have the state government trying to enforce the Trump platform on educational stipends on the other you have the state government trying to tell an athletic organization how it can operate. I think the problem is more that the state is trying to impose their power in an effort to show support for the current administration’s stance on education but are unaware of the floodgates that they are about to unleash.

Athletics shouldn’t trump academics in school but unfortunately they do in many cases in Alabama. It’s a truth we have to live with. With the NIL in high school possibly coming to the state of Alabama in the future it’s going to get even worse. But the governor’s will to break the AHSAA is going to ultimately result in the same thing as the NIL and transfer portal lawsuits had on NCAA. It’s going to create recruiting without the fear of consequences.

I’m not for taxpayer money going towards private schools and homeschooling but if it is a law that it has to then I believe that the AHSAA’s financial incentive policy stands

I really do not know enough about the code of Alabama, the AHSAA, it's bylaws to make an informed comment. I will defer to your judgment. You know a lot more than I do.

I guess the only thing I can add is the saying, "If you take the king's coin, you do the king's bidding." If the state of Alabama gets involved in funding an activity, then the state of Alabama gets in say in how their money is spent.

 

[81usaf92]

I guess the only thing I can add is the saying, "If you take the king's coin, you do the king's bidding." If the state of Alabama gets involved in funding an activity, then the state of Alabama gets in say in how their money is spent.

The AHSAA is a private entity. The state’s position in this is that they thought the AHSAA would take a pro Choose Act stance in terms of transfers. The AHSAA’s position is that the final draft of the Choose Act is vastly different than the draft that they initially agreed to, and that it threatens their ability to enforce policies and bylaws.

The AHSAA is also seeing a bunch of pressure build up from their 3A-5A public school members to hold firm or to completely get rid of private school members altogether. Alabama has 7 classifications and the vast majority of the prominent private school members in the AHSAA are in 3A, 4A, and 5A. For decades the public schools in those classifications have had a beef with the fact that private schools can openly recruit and play players immediately as long as financial incentives aren’t involved.

So the AHSAA is in a very tight position in which they can’t just let the state indefinitely hold up its rules but at the same time they need a fix that satisfies their public school members.

 

[mdb-tpet]

I've not read this bill, but it's just exacerbating the existing issues in our public education, starting with lack of will to properly fund the education system.

Too bad we have one of the best public education systems in the military, but somehow we can't copy that for the rest of the country.

Brown v. Board of Education 14.23...

Let's just hurry up and redivide our country by race, gender, and socioeconomic status.

Let's kill off public education, so we no longer can agree on a common national identity

Let's fund private religious education that says our Earth is just 6000 years old.

Let's defund and wreck public education so we can help crime skyrocket again for the poorest, least educated.

Let's pick and choose which kids with disabilities get education and which do not.

And, lastly, let's make all of these decisions with football being the driving factor.

 

[81usaf92]

I've not read this bill, but it's just exacerbating the existing issues in our public education, starting with lack of will to properly fund the education system.

Too bad we have one of the best public education systems in the military, but somehow we can't copy that for the rest of the country.

Brown v. Board of Education 14.23...

Let's just hurry up and redivide our country by race, gender, and socioeconomic status.

Let's kill off public education, so we no longer can agree on a common national identity

Let's fund private religious education that says our Earth is just 6000 years old.

Let's defund and wreck public education so we can help crime skyrocket again for the poorest, least educated.

Let's pick and choose which kids with disabilities get education and which do not.

And, lastly, let's make all of these decisions with football being the driving factor.

I think the problem is that we have a bunch of politicians that are so out of touch with the common student in the common environment and thinks too much in simple solutions to complex issues. One side believes funding failing systems indefinitely is the solution and the other believes championing systems outside the public sector is the way to fix it. I don’t know what the solution is but I don’t like the idea of encouraging private and homeschooling systems with financial incentives is the way. You still need systems in place to deal with failing systems that you are abandoning and you still need to be able to deal with the economic impact on the communities that you are ultimately destroying as well.

 

[81usaf92]

So Montgomery strikes back.

Proposed bill

 

[arthurdawg]

Gotta wast their time on high school athletics. Otherwise they might provide good governance for the state.

 

[81usaf92]

So even if this passes… to have sports in a school system 50% of the board has to be appointed by either the governor or the speaker of the house.

So with so many failing school districts…. We focus only on a private athletic associations rules for the simple reason that we want everyone in private, charter, and homeschools.

 

[jthomas666]

Tangentally related...

Alabama library denied funding because it won’t move classic book ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’

This is the first time that the Alabama state library board has denied funding based on book placement.

www.al.com