Immigration and Customs Enforcement (I.C.E.) (part II)

[Huckleberry]

What I want is an income tax sanctuary state where I could avoid paying taxes and my employer and financial institutions wouldn’t comply with any attempts to confiscate my paycheck or assets. Then when the feds show up to arrest me, lawless mobs incited by pink politicians, would impede their efforts.

But that’s not even as bad because at least not paying taxes is not a violent crime.

Coming into the country illegally isn’t a violent crime either

 

[Bazza]

Most of those taken into custody aren’t violent criminals. And Americans labeled as “interfering” are being beaten, pepper-sprayed, or even killed by masked, unaccountable agents. That alone should make this controversial.

Agree - this whole thing is very controversial.

The optics have been horrible.

The reality has been horrible.

People should not be dying.

But no matter what your opinions are - if you inject yourself into a Federal agency enforcement action other than a peaceful protester/observer - or showing up at a hearing - or being an advocate for change - or showing up at the voting precinct - you are not helping anyone or anything.

 

[editder]

Most of those taken into custody aren’t violent criminals. And Americans labeled as “interfering” are being beaten, pepper-sprayed, or even killed by masked, unaccountable agents. That alone should make this controversial.

You don’t have to be a violent criminal to be taken into custody. And Americans aren’t being “labeled as ‘interfering’.” They are interfering. They’re throwing frozen water bottles and rocks, blocking operations with vehicles, spitting on agents, shouting epithets, etc. It’s outrageous, and there’s no justification for it.

I’m not saying that the penalty for any of that is death, but if you’re going to fall on your sword, choose a cause other than child molesters.

 

[Huckleberry]

Agree - this whole thing is very controversial.

The optics have been horrible.

The reality has been horrible.

People should not be dying.

But no matter what your opinions are - if you inject yourself into a Federal agency enforcement action other than a peaceful protester/observer - or showing up at a hearing - or being an advocate for change - or showing up at the voting precinct - you are not helping anyone or anything.

I agree that initiating confrontation with ICE isn’t a good idea and is usually counterproductive. As long as you can protest by videoing, yelling, blowing whistles, etc without being accosted by masked agents, I agree with you.

 

[Bazza]

Glad to see this......but way overdue......

 

[editder]

Coming into the country illegally isn’t a violent crime either

No, but it is a crime. Detaining and deporting them is the duty of the US government. Immigration law enforcement is the exclusive purview of the US government. Sanctuary cities and states are unlawful. These aren’t legitimate protests; they are illegally impeding law enforcement efforts.

None of this would be happening if the local governments cooperated with the federal agents. It’s all intentional.

 

[Huckleberry]

You don’t have to be a violent criminal to be taken into custody. And Americans aren’t being “labeled as ‘interfering’.” They are interfering. They’re throwing frozen water bottles and rocks, blocking operations with vehicles, spitting on agents, shouting epithets, etc. It’s outrageous, and there’s no justification for it.

I’m not saying that the penalty for any of that is death, but if you’re going to fall on your sword, choose a cause other than child molesters.

I’m not in favor of any type of physical interference with ICE (shouting epithets isn’t interference). No one is protesting to protect child molesters from justice (though there is Epstein obstruction going on elsewhere in our nation).

If ICE was focusing on the “worst of the worst” and recognizing the rights of all involved, there would be very little protest.

 

[crimsonaudio]

No, but it is a crime. Detaining and deporting them is the duty of the US government. Immigration law enforcement is the exclusive purview of the US government. Sanctuary cities and states are unlawful. These aren’t legitimate protests; they are illegally impeding law enforcement efforts.

None of this would be happening if the local governments cooperated with the federal agents. It’s all intentional.

MN has only had 1,773 ICE arrests (22nd in the US) yet for some reason, has the most violence.

 

[Huckleberry]

No, but it is a crime. Detaining and deporting them is the duty of the US government. Immigration law enforcement is the exclusive purview of the US government. Sanctuary cities and states are unlawful. These aren’t legitimate protests; they are illegally impeding law enforcement efforts.

None of this would be happening if the local governments cooperated with the federal agents. It’s all intentional.

Sanctuary cites and states are not unlawful. The states are not obligated to assist the feds in immigration enforcement.

Sure it’s intentional. Large numbers of people disagree with the policy, so their elected representatives are exercising their constitutional rights.

 

[editder]

I agree that initiating confrontation with ICE isn’t a good idea and is usually counterproductive. As long as you can protest by videoing, yelling, blowing whistles, etc without being accosted by masked agents, I agree with you.

I would agree, too, if that was all that was happening. But officers are being struck with flying objects. Taxpayer funded vehicles are being vandalized. These aren’t all innocent protesters; they are largely organized, violent mobs (with probably a few well-meaning but useful idiots mixed in) who are being incited by irresponsible politicians and billionaire activists and agitators.

 

[crimsonaudio]

 

[Huckleberry]

I would agree, too, if that was all that was happening. But officers are being struck with flying objects. Taxpayer funded vehicles are being vandalized. These aren’t all innocent protesters; they are largely organized, violent mobs (with probably a few well-meaning but useful idiots mixed in) who are being incited by irresponsible politicians and billionaire activists and agitators.

The physical altercations and vandalism should stop.

The great majority of protesters are non-violent and there because the issue matters to them. They are intelligent, caring Americans who value civil rights and human dignity.

 

[92tide]

where can i sign up to get all of this sweet lucre from the billionaire agitators? i could use a few extra bucks

 

[92tide]

i see they finally got the messaging in order

 

[Huckleberry]

View attachment 55378

Since ICE doesn’t have the assistance of local law enforcement in those areas, are they approaching them with a different mindset? Have they been properly trained to deal with the new situation?

 

[92tide]

Since ICE doesn’t have the assistance of local law enforcement in those areas, are they approaching them with a different mindset? Have they been properly trained to deal with the new situation?

in the case of pretti they instigated the violence. there have been many other instances of them unloading pepper spray, less than lethal rounds and other such things on folks protesting. of course, the mere act of questioning the administration is seen as treasonous by many

 

[editder]

Sanctuary cites and states are not unlawful. The states are not obligated to assist the feds in immigration enforcement.

Sure it’s intentional. Large numbers of people disagree with the policy, so their elected representatives are exercising their constitutional rights.

So disagreeing with a law is justification for violating it? Where do you draw the line with that? It will lead to total anarchy. It’s not sustainable for a nation.

Elected representatives don’t have a constitutional right to break the law. If they disagree with the immigration law, their congressional delegations should introduce legislation making unlimited immigration legal.

But they won’t do that because they would be voted out of power posthaste. So they incite violence in the streets, putting people’s lives at risk, hoping that social unrest will create a backlash. Looks like it’s working.

 

[Huckleberry]

So disagreeing with a law is justification for violating it? Where do you draw the line with that? It will lead to total anarchy. It’s not sustainable for a nation.

Elected representatives don’t have a constitutional right to break the law. If they disagree with the immigration law, their congressional delegations should introduce legislation making unlimited immigration legal.
But they won’t do that because they would be voted out of power posthaste. So they incite violence in the streets, putting people’s lives at risk, hoping that social unrest will create a backlash. Looks like it’s working.

Disagreeing with the law is justification for not assisting others in carrying it out when given that right by the US Constitution.

Neither the government nor boogeyman billionaires are inciting violence in the streets.

 

[81usaf92]

I would agree, too, if that was all that was happening. But officers are being struck with flying objects. Taxpayer funded vehicles are being vandalized. These aren’t all innocent protesters; they are largely organized, violent mobs (with probably a few well-meaning but useful idiots mixed in) who are being incited by irresponsible politicians and billionaire activists and agitators.

the police officers doing these shootings are hardly being attacked by protesters. They are just cowards who hide behind the lie that they are heroes of a thankless profession that we keep repeating to ourselves in order to believe the lie.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

ICE is killing people in broad daylight. I can't imagine what they are doing behind their walls.

We have some clues. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/many-ice-cbp-agents-allegedly-222423105.html?guccounter=1

At least 20 of those individuals committed offenses with underage victims, according to the report.

The 30 listed individuals have been charged with a wide litany of crimes, including gunpoint sexual assault, child sex trafficking, aggravated assault, robbery, rape, torture, kidnapping, sexual abuse of a minor, and possession and production of child sexual abuse materials.

Their transgressions occurred between 2015 and 2025, with the bulk of abuse happening within the last two years.

Never forget what Trump did during his first term. https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/16/us-lasting-harm-family-separation-border

The government achieved family separation through a novel application of two federal laws. First, it prosecuted parents for “improper entry,” a minor federal charge. Second, it used parents’ brief transfer from CBP to the US Marshals Service while they appeared in court to treat their children as unaccompanied. CBP then applied a different law to transfer the children to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, the US Department of Health and Human Services agency responsible for unaccompanied children.

A June 2018 court order halted the government’s effort to systematically separate every family that entered the United States without authorization. But the court order allowed separations on other grounds, and the government continued to separate hundreds of children through the end of 2019.

...

Behind the scenes, officials’ exchanges left no doubt that forcible family separation was the desired outcome of the policy rather than a byproduct of routine law enforcement operations. “We need to take away children,” Attorney General Jeff Sessions told federal prosecutors in May 2018. The same month, when a senior US Immigration and Customs Enforcement official learned that parents were returning from court before CBP had transferred their children, he wrote to “confirm that the expectation is that we are NOT to reunite the families”; reunification “obviously undermines the entire effort.”

Senior officials who played a leading role in developing and implementing the policy include Thomas Homan,

MAGA doesn't seem very bothered by any of this; they keep excusing it all away. I mean, they're all violent criminals, so why is there any controversy here, right?