After worst postseason loss in Alabama history, the Tide are on the wrong side of a 'fine line' under Kalen DeBoer

[Bamabuzzard]

It may have been a lack of reps but Mack had some accuracy issues against IU.

In general that's one of the areas of his game that's needed to improve. He also needs to learn putting touch on the ball. He fastballs most of the balls he throws.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Has anyone seen the interview at the Senior Bowl with CKD? Either he had a bad's night sleep the night before, or he's aged 10 years from two years ago. LOL!

 

[Tidewater]

There are different schools of organizational leadership: the George Patton scream at them and publicly fire those who do not perform and the Geo. Washington / Ike / Forrest Gump's "Lieutenant Dan" leadership which inspires subordinates to say, "I sure hope I do not let him down."
Clearly Coach Saban was in the former camp and Coach DeBoer appears to be the latter.
Depending on what material you are working with, one is more effective than the other. I personally think that the former is more effective if those being led are less mature, younger, and just beginning their careers. For more mature, more professional, and older subordinates, the latter is often more effective.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

There are different schools of organizational leadership: the George Patton scream at them and publicly fire those who do not perform and the Geo. Washington / Ike / Forrest Gump's "Lieutenant Dan" leadership which inspires subordinates to say, "I sure hope I do not let him down."
Clearly Coach Saban was in the former camp and Coach DeBoer appears to be the latter.
Depending on what material you are working with, one is more effective than the other. I personally think that the former is more effective if those being led are less mature, younger, and just beginning their careers. For more mature, more professional, and older subordinates, the latter is often more effective.

I think having a little bit of both methods is ideal. I know that's hard to find, but most of the time you're going to have a mix of players who need to be coached differently to get them to meet their optimal potential. The great coaches know which players need to be yelled at and which players don't. In a perfect world, a coach could accumulate a roster full of players who can be coached the same. But unfortunately, that isn't realistic.

I think Saban was like that to some degree. I know listening to interviews with Najee Harris, he saied he and CNS got off on the wrong foot. He didn't respond well to constantly being yelled at, and he and CNS butted heads a lot. But as they got to know each other, they found middle ground and it turned into a great relationship.

 

[Transplanted]

There are different schools of organizational leadership: the George Patton scream at them and publicly fire those who do not perform and the Geo. Washington / Ike / Forrest Gump's "Lieutenant Dan" leadership which inspires subordinates to say, "I sure hope I do not let him down."
Clearly Coach Saban was in the former camp and Coach DeBoer appears to be the latter.
Depending on what material you are working with, one is more effective than the other. I personally think that the former is more effective if those being led are less mature, younger, and just beginning their careers. For more mature, more professional, and older subordinates, the latter is often more effective.

Totally agree. The screaming tyrant approach doesn’t work with older adults. Even Red Auerbach was a total genius in the pros utilizing the latter approach: taking blame for losses/ praising when they win, appealing to their pride, listening for suggestions, etc.

Hopefully it isn’t true but maybe DeBoer would be amazing in the pros instead but maybe he will keep growing in the college domain, too.

 

[Tidewater]

I think having a little bit of both methods is ideal. I know that's hard to find, but most of the time you're going to have a mix of players who need to be coached differently to get them to meet their optimal potential. The great coaches know which players need to be yelled at and which players don't. In a perfect world, a coach could accumulate a roster full of players who can be coached the same. But unfortunately, that isn't realistic.

I think Saban was like that to some degree. I know listening to interviews with Najee Harris, he saied he and CNS got off on the wrong foot. He didn't respond well to constantly being yelled at, and he and CNS butted heads a lot. But as they got to know each other, they found middle ground and it turned into a great relationship.

I agree a mix is best, but early Coach Saban did a lot of Patton. Later Nick Saban used a lot of Lt Dan.
The only people I have seen Coach DeBoer really raise his voice to is officials when they blow a call. Not saying it does not happen behind closed doors, but it seems to me that would be out of character.

 

[CoolBreeze]

I agree a mix is best, but early Coach Saban did a lot of Patton. Later Nick Saban used a lot of Lt Dan.
The only people I have seen Coach DeBoer really raise his voice to is officials when they blow a call. Not saying it does not happen behind closed doors, but it seems to me that would be out of character.

There is quite intensity. I have seen it from my son's days on the soccer pitch. He had a coach, young, ex MLS player. They'd be down at half time and he'd be quite, pacing right in front of them all, sitting on the bleachers staring at him...you could hear a pin drop. He was intense and you could only see it in practice sometimes verbally. But he projected a quiet intensity that I have rarely ever seen. If he is quite, players knew to shut up and pay attention.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I agree a mix is best, but early Coach Saban did a lot of Patton. Later Nick Saban used a lot of Lt Dan.
The only people I have seen Coach DeBoer really raise his voice to is officials when they blow a call. Not saying it does not happen behind closed doors, but it seems to me that would be out of character.

Dealing with/coaching a group of players on a team is an art that's tough to learn. I've coached baseball for umpteen years, from ages 8 to 18 and every age in between. Human beings are a tricky bunch, and all of them are wired a lot differently and others subtly differently.

I've had kids who absolutely would not respond to even the hint of me raising my voice, then I've had kids that if you didn't raise your voice, would run all over you. You could make them run, do push ups, etc. It didn't matter, if you didn't chew their butts, they would run all over you. Then there's the kids in the middle, who sometimes need to be corrected with positive reinforcement and then other times need the "tough love" approach. Coaches are basically informal counselors and psychiatrists.

 

[BamaMoon]

In general that's one of the areas of his game that's needed to improve. He also needs to learn putting touch on the ball. He fastballs most of the balls he throws.

That's been my impression too. He reminds me a little of Freddy Kitchens in that regard. He does have a beautiful presence in the pocket, being so tall and he has a good throwing motion, although it comes out a little sidearmed.

I have no reason to think this except that I really believe Keelon Russell will ascend to the top of the QB room and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't win the job in the spring. What little we've seen of him, he seems to have an understanding of better touch. I could be wrong altogether, but he just seems to have stardom in his future!

I've been told by someone that the staff wants some clarity coming out of spring, which makes a ton of sense since it would give the starter the entire fall camp to get ready.

We'll see in a couple of months. I imagine A-day will be mid-April, as usual?

 

[BamaInCummingGA]

I think CKD will be coaching for his job this next season. I think if he weren't feeling the pressure he wouldn't have let Coach Kap go.
As so many others have said, there are multiple changes that need to be made.
Strength and conditioning certainly needs to be revamped. We are definitely neither strong or explosive.
Offensive line-----at least a coaching change was made.
The staff needs to demand more of themselves and in turn demand more of the players.
I really think that if this staff doesn't show marked and somewhat drastic improvement from last season to this season the boosters may find the funds for his buyout and part ways.
I hope he is successful because that means the team is successful. But he better get it figured out that finesse just ain't gonna get it, You gotta get tougher (physically and mentally) and commit to running the ball or you may get "run out of town".

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think CKD will be coaching for his job this next season. I think if he weren't feeling the pressure he wouldn't have let Coach Kap go.
As so many others have said, there are multiple changes that need to be made.
Strength and conditioning certainly needs to be revamped. We are definitely neither strong or explosive.
Offensive line-----at least a coaching change was made.
The staff needs to demand more of themselves and in turn demand more of the players.
I really think that if this staff doesn't show marked and somewhat drastic improvement from last season to this season the boosters may find the funds for his buyout and part ways.
I hope he is successful because that means the team is successful. But he better get it figured out that finesse just ain't gonna get it, You gotta get tougher (physically and mentally) and commit to running the ball or you may get "run out of town".

Nick was on the Pat Macafee show this week and talked about the demands of coaching at Alabama. He said its good to finish in the top eight of the playoffs, but it is not good enough at Alabama. That the staff was going to have to find a way to get better.

 

[oskie]

I agree a mix is best, but early Coach Saban did a lot of Patton. Later Nick Saban used a lot of Lt Dan.
The only people I have seen Coach DeBoer really raise his voice to is officials when they blow a call. Not saying it does not happen behind closed doors, but it seems to me that would be out of character.

@Tidewater, I agree with you, that seems to be out of character for him.

I noticed that Coach DeBoer tried to be more demonstrative on the field this past season.
Even noticed him slamming his fist up against the goalpost, just before the team ran out on the field. I remember thinking how contrived that appeared to be.

As a bit of disclaimer, I really appreciate his calm demeanor and I don't agree with others on this board that believe a coach has to be spitting fire and four-letter words to get a person's attention.

I do agree with others who have said that different people respond to different styles. I know this to be true, but I maintain that a coach needs to stay true to his innate character.
I think players will ultimately respond to a person who is genuine and sincere, not someone who is trying to be what they think others would like for them to be.

Bottom line, I think Coach will find his groove and, if given ample opportunity, will build a program we can be proud of.

Roll Tide!

 

[JDCrimson]

Ultimately, I gauge a person's success in an endeavor by the passion they bring to the endeavor and how well they communicate that passion. CKD mindless drivel shared with the media does not tell me he is a passionate person as he needs to be. He is too cerebral. He still thinks he can outthink his opponents and ultimately at the highest levels of competition you are going to out-execute and overpower your opponent.

He has yet to embrace that the fans are integral to his success as a coach at Bama. The sooner he recognizes this and starts communicating passionately with the media the better for him.

Dubose and Shula in particular failed in this area.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Ultimately, I gauge a person's success in an endeavor by the passion they bring to the endeavor and how well they communicate that passion. CKD mindless drivel shared with the media does not tell me he is a passionate person as he needs to be. He is too cerebral. He still thinks he can outthink his opponents and ultimately at the highest levels of competition you are going to out-execute and overpower your opponent.

He has yet to embrace that the fans are integral to his success as a coach at Bama. The sooner he recognizes this and starts communicating passionately with the media the better for him.

Dubose and Shula in particular failed in this area.

I think he is a very cerebral coach and knows the X's and O's of the game very well. I just think he lacks putting the physicality component in his approach which ultimately causes problems. Because when you lose the physicality aspect of the game, the X's and O's dont matter. But I'm hoping that after two years in the SEC, DeBoer has learned and adjusted. If not, he is choosing to put a ceiling on his own coaching development.

 

[Tidewater]

@Tidewater, I agree with you, that seems to be out of character for him.

I noticed that Coach DeBoer tried to be more demonstrative on the field this past season.
Even noticed him slamming his fist up against the goalpost, just before the team ran out on the field. I remember thinking how contrived that appeared to be.

As a bit of disclaimer, I really appreciate his calm demeanor and I don't agree with others on this board that believe a coach has to be spitting fire and four-letter words to get a person's attention.

I do agree with others who have said that different people respond to different styles. I know this to be true, but I maintain that a coach needs to stay true to his innate character.
I think players will ultimately respond to a person who is genuine and sincere, not someone who is trying to be what they think others would like for them to be.

Bottom line, I think Coach will find his groove and, if given ample opportunity, will build a program we can be proud of.

Roll Tide!

I agree with the bolded part. If he is faking it, the players will see through it and he won't be able to keep it up all the time.
If he sticks to his calmer way of doing things, the players may respond, but I have my doubts. These guys are 18-22 year olds and there is a reason Drill Sergeants have a certain style when dealing with young men of this age group.
I remember watching the LSU coach forget to pound the table at the press conference after a loss, repeat the line during which he had intended to pound the table, and pound the table the second time. It seemed phony and contrived.

 

[Tidewater]

I found an excellent example of the power of the "I sure hope I don't let the Boss down" style of leadership.

In the summer of 1864, a staff officer of the Army of Northern Virginia led a unit down the wrong road at the critical juncture of a battle. It took precious minutes to correct the mistake.
After the battle, Lee ordered the staff officer to report to him.
"With a sinking heart I obeyed. The General was seated on a camp stool in front of his tent, an open map spread out on his knees. When I was in position before him, he traced a road with his index finger, and quietly remarked, 'Major, this is the road to Cold Harbor.'

"'Yes, General,' I replied, 'I know it now.'

"Not another word was spoken, but that quiet reproof sunk deeper and cut more keenly than words of violent vituperation would have done."

Major H. B. McClellan was just 23 years old.


Not trying to get political, just pointing out that a young man messed up something important. He (eventually) knew he had made a mistake. His boss knew he had made a mistake. All it took was the boss pointing out the error for the guy to feel terrible about letting the boss down and resolve never to do that again.