The Church Thread: Chapter I Verse I

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That guy wasn't much of a pastor. Many people in my church do use their phones or bring tablets. I'm ok with that in the modern age, but I do like holding a paper Bible with a nice leather binding and cover.
I'm with you, but I'm also okay with the electronic options for everyone else. Watching them struggle to find the book and chapters they are looking for in a paper Bible is painful to watch. (Plus, it slows the study down to a crawl which is just maddening to me.)
 
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As a Bishop, I cannot stay silent. I have today drafted and sent an open letter to His Majesty King Charles III, the text of which reads as follows:

To:
His Majesty, Charles III,
King of the United Kingdom and the Realms,
Supreme Governor of the Church of England,
Bearer of the ancient title Defender of the Faith.

Your Majesty,

I write to you neither as a politician nor as a commentator, but as one of your loyal subjects who, as a bishop of Christ’s Church, cannot remain silent while the Christian foundations of this kingdom are steadily dismantled.

Sir, there are moments in the life of a nation when silence becomes a form of betrayal. If I refused to speak to Your Majesty now, this would be such a moment.

For more than a thousand years the Crown of this realm has stood in solemn covenant with the Christian faith.

The laws of this land were shaped by it.
The liberties of our people were nurtured by it.
The conscience of our civilisation was formed by it.

From the abbeys of medieval England to the parish churches of our villages, from the preaching of the Reformers to the missionary zeal that carried the Gospel to the ends of the earth, the Christian faith has not merely influenced Britain — it has defined her.

Yet today that inheritance is being quietly but deliberately eroded. Across the institutions of this nation there is a growing hostility toward the faith that built them.

Christian belief is mocked in the public square. Christian morality is dismissed as intolerance. Christian institutions are pressured to surrender doctrine in order to conform to the ideology of the age.

Within the very Church that bears the name of England, voices have arisen that appear more eager to mirror the spirit of the age than to proclaim the eternal truth of the Gospel.

Meanwhile, beyond the walls of our churches, powerful political movements openly speak of removing Christianity from its historic place within the life of this nation.

What would once have been whispered is now proclaimed openly: that Britain must become a post-Christian state.

It is in this context that I write to you, Your Majesty. For the British Crown does not stand apart from this crisis.

The Sovereign of this realm bears a title that is not merely historic but sacred in its origin and meaning: Defender of the Faith. Those words are not decorative. They are a charge.

They speak of a monarch whose duty is not merely to preside over the ceremonies of the Church, but to stand as a guardian of the Christian inheritance of the nation.

Yet many among your subjects now ask, with increasing anxiety: “Who will defend that inheritance today?”

They see a nation drifting from its foundations. And they ask whether the Crown will remain silent while that inheritance is dismantled.

Your Majesty, may I be so bold as to observe that your coronation oath was not a poetic formality. It was a solemn vow made before Almighty God to maintain and preserve the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law.

Those words bind the conscience of the sovereign. They remind the Crown that its authority is not merely constitutional but moral. The monarch is not merely a symbol of national continuity, but a custodian of the spiritual inheritance that shaped this realm.

History records moments when kings and emperors were confronted by the Church and reminded that their authority was accountable before God. In the fourth century Ambrose of Milan stood before the Emperor Theodosius I and reminded him that even the ruler of an empire must bow before the moral law of Christ.

That tradition of prophetic witness has never disappeared. Nor should it. For when rulers forget the foundations upon which their authority rests, the Church must speak — not with hostility, but with holy clarity.

And so, I write to say this, Your Majesty: The Christian character of this nation is under profound and accelerating assault.

If the Crown does not stand visibly and courageously in defence of that inheritance, history will record that the guardians of Britain’s institutions watched in silence as the foundations were removed.

The issue before us is not nostalgia. It is civilisation. Remove Christianity from the story of Britain and you do not create a neutral society — you create a moral vacuum. And history teaches us that moral vacuums are never left empty for long.

Your Majesty now stands at a crossroads that few monarchs in modern history have faced.

For the erosion of Britain’s Christian inheritance will not ultimately be judged by speeches made in Parliament or debates in the press. It will be judged by whether those entrusted with the guardianship of our ancient institutions chose to defend them — or merely preside over their quiet surrender.

You may preside over the quiet dissolution of Britain’s Christian identity. Or you may rise to the ancient responsibility entrusted to the Crown and speak with clarity about the faith that built this kingdom. The first path requires little courage. The second will require a great deal. But it is the path that history honours.

Your Majesty’s subjects are not asking for religious coercion. They are asking for leadership. They are asking that the sovereign who bears the title Defender of the Faith remember what that title means.

They are asking that the Crown hear the growing cry of anguish from Christians across this land who feel that the spiritual inheritance of their nation is being surrendered without resistance. And they are asking whether the Crown will stand with them.

For the faith that shaped Britain is not merely a cultural ornament. It is the wellspring from which our laws, our liberties, and our moral imagination have flowed. If it is cast aside, the nation will discover — too late — that it has severed itself from the very roots that sustained it.

Your Majesty, to many the Crown is a symbol of authority. But before God it is also a symbol of stewardship. And stewardship carries with it the duty to defend what has been entrusted.

May Almighty God grant Your Majesty the wisdom to discern this hour, and the courage to fulfil the sacred duty entrusted to the Crown.

Yours faithfully,

Bishop Ceirion H. Dewar FSHC
Missionary Bishop
Diocese of Providence
Confessing Anglican Church

 
As a Bishop, I cannot stay silent. I have today drafted and sent an open letter to His Majesty King Charles III, the text of which reads as follows:

To:
His Majesty, Charles III,
King of the United Kingdom and the Realms,
Supreme Governor of the Church of England,
Bearer of the ancient title Defender of the Faith.

Your Majesty,

I write to you neither as a politician nor as a commentator, but as one of your loyal subjects who, as a bishop of Christ’s Church, cannot remain silent while the Christian foundations of this kingdom are steadily dismantled.

Sir, there are moments in the life of a nation when silence becomes a form of betrayal. If I refused to speak to Your Majesty now, this would be such a moment.

For more than a thousand years the Crown of this realm has stood in solemn covenant with the Christian faith.

The laws of this land were shaped by it.
The liberties of our people were nurtured by it.
The conscience of our civilisation was formed by it.

From the abbeys of medieval England to the parish churches of our villages, from the preaching of the Reformers to the missionary zeal that carried the Gospel to the ends of the earth, the Christian faith has not merely influenced Britain — it has defined her.

Yet today that inheritance is being quietly but deliberately eroded. Across the institutions of this nation there is a growing hostility toward the faith that built them.

Christian belief is mocked in the public square. Christian morality is dismissed as intolerance. Christian institutions are pressured to surrender doctrine in order to conform to the ideology of the age.

Within the very Church that bears the name of England, voices have arisen that appear more eager to mirror the spirit of the age than to proclaim the eternal truth of the Gospel.

Meanwhile, beyond the walls of our churches, powerful political movements openly speak of removing Christianity from its historic place within the life of this nation.

What would once have been whispered is now proclaimed openly: that Britain must become a post-Christian state.

It is in this context that I write to you, Your Majesty. For the British Crown does not stand apart from this crisis.

The Sovereign of this realm bears a title that is not merely historic but sacred in its origin and meaning: Defender of the Faith. Those words are not decorative. They are a charge.

They speak of a monarch whose duty is not merely to preside over the ceremonies of the Church, but to stand as a guardian of the Christian inheritance of the nation.

Yet many among your subjects now ask, with increasing anxiety: “Who will defend that inheritance today?”

They see a nation drifting from its foundations. And they ask whether the Crown will remain silent while that inheritance is dismantled.

Your Majesty, may I be so bold as to observe that your coronation oath was not a poetic formality. It was a solemn vow made before Almighty God to maintain and preserve the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law.

Those words bind the conscience of the sovereign. They remind the Crown that its authority is not merely constitutional but moral. The monarch is not merely a symbol of national continuity, but a custodian of the spiritual inheritance that shaped this realm.

History records moments when kings and emperors were confronted by the Church and reminded that their authority was accountable before God. In the fourth century Ambrose of Milan stood before the Emperor Theodosius I and reminded him that even the ruler of an empire must bow before the moral law of Christ.

That tradition of prophetic witness has never disappeared. Nor should it. For when rulers forget the foundations upon which their authority rests, the Church must speak — not with hostility, but with holy clarity.

And so, I write to say this, Your Majesty: The Christian character of this nation is under profound and accelerating assault.

If the Crown does not stand visibly and courageously in defence of that inheritance, history will record that the guardians of Britain’s institutions watched in silence as the foundations were removed.

The issue before us is not nostalgia. It is civilisation. Remove Christianity from the story of Britain and you do not create a neutral society — you create a moral vacuum. And history teaches us that moral vacuums are never left empty for long.

Your Majesty now stands at a crossroads that few monarchs in modern history have faced.

For the erosion of Britain’s Christian inheritance will not ultimately be judged by speeches made in Parliament or debates in the press. It will be judged by whether those entrusted with the guardianship of our ancient institutions chose to defend them — or merely preside over their quiet surrender.

You may preside over the quiet dissolution of Britain’s Christian identity. Or you may rise to the ancient responsibility entrusted to the Crown and speak with clarity about the faith that built this kingdom. The first path requires little courage. The second will require a great deal. But it is the path that history honours.

Your Majesty’s subjects are not asking for religious coercion. They are asking for leadership. They are asking that the sovereign who bears the title Defender of the Faith remember what that title means.

They are asking that the Crown hear the growing cry of anguish from Christians across this land who feel that the spiritual inheritance of their nation is being surrendered without resistance. And they are asking whether the Crown will stand with them.

For the faith that shaped Britain is not merely a cultural ornament. It is the wellspring from which our laws, our liberties, and our moral imagination have flowed. If it is cast aside, the nation will discover — too late — that it has severed itself from the very roots that sustained it.

Your Majesty, to many the Crown is a symbol of authority. But before God it is also a symbol of stewardship. And stewardship carries with it the duty to defend what has been entrusted.

May Almighty God grant Your Majesty the wisdom to discern this hour, and the courage to fulfil the sacred duty entrusted to the Crown.

Yours faithfully,

Bishop Ceirion H. Dewar FSHC
Missionary Bishop
Diocese of Providence
Confessing Anglican Church

He will, "merely preside over their quiet surrender." Britain is gone. Write it off. This next national election may be their last chance to start to turn the ship of state around, but I doubt they do it. Britain will not be British within 100 years, and I'm probably being way too optimistic. If the US and the UK remain as nations there will come a day where we will no longer be the allies we once were.
 

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William Wolfe:
We don't do this here, Governor Josh Stein. We don't celebrate violent, false "religions" founded by pedophilic fake prophets and commend "observance" of their backward practices.

This is America. This is North Carolina. This is my state.

A state whose preamble to its Constitution says:

"We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution."

Rest assured, I will do everything I can to ensure you are a one-term governor for this.

And once you're out of office, we will lead North Carolina back to Christ and turn it so Red that progressive, Sharia-friendly, Leftists like yourself won't even be able to run for dog catcher.
 
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Curious what the Christians on this forum think of universalism and Christians like David Bentley Hart. I did not know much about him until recently.

I don't think I'll ever return to any religion but I do like his version of Christianity a bit better than most
 
Curious what the Christians on this forum think of universalism and Christians like David Bentley Hart. I did not know much about him until recently.

I don't think I'll ever return to any religion but I do like his version of Christianity a bit better than most
This is a great question and any discussion about it will certainly be a learning opportunity. I do admit that I have not looked deeply into universalism, so I cannot give an educated opinion at the moment. I look forward to the replies to this.
 

While carefully adjusting his amp's sound levels to "get a little more punch" out of the amplifier before Sunday's service, something caught Bernard's eye: the power cord protruding out of the back of his amp was neatly wound up and zip-tied, having never been uncoiled and plugged into the wall.

"Hey, was anyone gonna tell me my amp wasn't plugged in?" Bernard asked as other worship band members pretended not to hear him over the drummer's warm-up fills. "I put this amp up here in '97, and no one told me it's been off this whole time?"

Old parody article is old, but this left me in stitches.
 
Curious what the Christians on this forum think of universalism and Christians like David Bentley Hart. I did not know much about him until recently.

I don't think I'll ever return to any religion but I do like his version of Christianity a bit better than most
I’m unsure how anyone can truly rectify universalism with Christianity, unless they ignore parts of the bible.
 
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I’m unsure how anyone can truly rectify universalism with Christianity, unless they ignore parts of the bible.
That was my automatic response, but I'm still trying to square away how someone can be judged guilty if he or she has never heard the gospel. This is a toughie and better men than I have struggled with this.
 

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William Wolfe:
We don't do this here, Governor Josh Stein. We don't celebrate violent, false "religions" founded by pedophilic fake prophets and commend "observance" of their backward practices.

This is America. This is North Carolina. This is my state.

A state whose preamble to its Constitution says:

"We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution."

Rest assured, I will do everything I can to ensure you are a one-term governor for this.

And once you're out of office, we will lead North Carolina back to Christ and turn it so Red that progressive, Sharia-friendly, Leftists like yourself won't even be able to run for dog catcher.
good lord at these freaks
 
That was my automatic response, but I'm still trying to square away how someone can be judged guilty if he or she has never heard the gospel. This is a toughie and better men than I have struggled with this.
It's a common topic, and I've listened to sermons about it, read commentaries about it by people who have forgotten more about the Bible than I know, and sat in many Bible studies where this came up. I have my belief about it, but it certainly isn't the most popular, especially in the Southern Baptist church that I grew up in. But I do enjoy listening to people's opinions about it.
 
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I’m unsure how anyone can truly rectify universalism with Christianity, unless they ignore parts of the bible.
That is how I assumed most would feel and I probably agree. I don't really know enough to have strong counter arguments to his. But I also feel some of his explanations don't seem right to me. As far as I can tell the only part of the bible he truly ignores is revelations but I think he hand waves a lot on some other stuff. But again, I don't really know enough to know if his arguments are valid or not.

I think one of his big claims is that early Christians thought as he does now.
 
That is how I assumed most would feel and I probably agree. I don't really know enough to have strong counter arguments to his. But I also feel some of his explanations don't seem right to me. As far as I can tell the only part of the bible he truly ignores is revelations but I think he hand waves a lot on some other stuff. But again, I don't really know enough to know if his arguments are valid or not.

I think one of his big claims is that early Christians thought as he does now.
I'm not even sure how he gets to that conclusion when you look at the early letters, but there are always going to be people who want to believe what they want rather than what the inspired Word says.
 
Curious what the Christians on this forum think of universalism and Christians like David Bentley Hart. I did not know much about him until recently.

I don't think I'll ever return to any religion but I do like his version of Christianity a bit better than most
You can't take the Bible seriously for what it says or some of the other world religions like Islam or Judaism and go with universalism. The "theology" of universalism goes directly against what Christ Himself taught as written in the Gospels. If you want to embrace universalism as a Christian you must then see what Christ said as wrong or that the writers of the Gospels got what Jesus said wrong. That is one slippery slope if I've ever seen one.

Everyone is welcome to their own interpretation, but I have trouble figuring out Hart. I get what he is saying, but I have to ignore many verses in the Bible to get to where he goes. I actually want him to be correct I just can't find a way for him to be unless I'm willing to throw out much of the teachings of Christ and the rest of the writers of the New Testament. I like the idea of everyone going to Heaven, but I can't defend that position in light of so many Biblical passages.
 
I'm not even sure how he gets to that conclusion when you look at the early letters, but there are always going to be people who want to believe what they want rather than what the inspired Word says.
He has to jump through A LOT of theological hoops and squint real- real hard at a lot of verses to get to universalism.
 
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I’m unsure how anyone can truly rectify universalism with Christianity, unless they ignore parts of the bible.
Most people ignore parts of the Bible...including devout Christians...i.e. the parts directing the Israelites to destroy all the Canaanites including their children (which did not seem to happen according to history.). WE ALL pick and choose our preferences.

Biblically it is based on the statement by Paul: "nothing shall separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus." Romans 8: 28-39.

There are several different types of Universalism...all with the basic theme that there is no final judgment or if there is God waves the penalty and welcomes all into the Kingdom. The question revolves around how far the grace of Christ extends...even to those who never profess Christ out of either ignorance or refusal? Is there such a thing as personal responsibility? What about the Jews who died in the holocaust? Neanderthals were certainly "human." Did Christ die for them?

The biggest problem with Universalism from my POV is that it removes justice as a central attribute of God and ergo, life and eternity. Actions have consequences, now and forever.

One last thought: most of us are like Dante and when we describe our vision of hell we assign our biggest enemies to the deepest realms.
 
Most people ignore parts of the Bible...including devout Christians...i.e. the parts directing the Israelites to destroy all the Canaanites including their children (which did not seem to happen according to history.). WE ALL pick and choose our preferences.

Biblically it is based on the statement by Paul: "nothing shall separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus." Romans 8: 28-39.

There are several different types of Universalism...all with the basic theme that there is no final judgment or if there is God waves the penalty and welcomes all into the Kingdom. The question revolves around how far the grace of Christ extends...even to those who never profess Christ out of either ignorance or refusal? Is there such a thing as personal responsibility? What about the Jews who died in the holocaust? Neanderthals were certainly "human." Did Christ die for them?

The biggest problem with Universalism from my POV is that it removes justice as a central attribute of God and ergo, life and eternity. Actions have consequences, now and forever.

One last thought: most of us are like Dante and when we describe our vision of hell we assign our biggest enemies to the deepest realms.
A lot of "issues" that arise in people (especially Westerners) on things like people going to hell without ever hearing the gospel, or the highly debated free will vs God's sovereignty, is the idea that there are situations in which God "owes" humanity/man something. People in the Western culture are real hung up on the concept of "fairness", so when reading, interpreting and reasoning through scripture, this concept is interjected and made a part of the relationship God has with His creation. So when the reader comes across something in the Bible that God does, commands or allows to man that doesn't seem "fair" to man, it causes them problems. When discussing these types of topics with others, I often ask them, "Do you believe there is ever a situation where God is in a position of owing man/humanity anything?"
 
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