Pastor fired for inappropriate images on church computer, hired by a crosstown church

Intl.Aperture said:

I think there is a difference between a pastor being a fallible human being and being a cretinous low-life.

To me, this is just a man being prone to human foibles. I'd be willing to bet a large portion of male pastors struggle with this sort of thing, but I wouldn't lump them into the same category as deceitful mega-church pastors or ones committing offenses like predatory sexual behavior against children or embezzlement or something....not that you are claiming they are the same.

I just think it's important to distinguish a pastor being a mortal human who occasionally errs (like we all do) and being a pile of human garbage who consistently abuses power in pursuit of glory and wealth.

As an aside, I think our expectations of pastors is a large reason why many turn from the church. Just because these men and women have an education and vocation in the church does not minimize their susceptibility to the pitfalls of life. When we place them on moral pedestals we set ourselves up for failure and ultimately we allow their failings to reduce our faith in their biblical teachings. Just because someone is hypocritical or suffer a moment of weakness doesn't ALWAYS invalidate their teachings. But often I find Christians taking the failings of their pastor out on the bible personally or using it as a way to delegitimize the religion itself.

Saint Augustine asserts, It's important to always judge a religion or philosophy on it's core tenets and beliefs and not by how it's followers pervert, fall short of, or abuse those teachings. That goes for all religions, not just Christianity.

I'm sure this was an unnecessarily long post, but there it is.

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TIDE-HSV said:

In the UMC, the youth ministry, many of whom have been ordained deacon but not elder, is a prime source for future senior pastors. Once, I asked a senior UMC pastor, a friend of mine why so many youth pastors went back to school to be fully ordained and enter the full ministry. His answer was laconic - "They get tired of being kids"...

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TIDE-HSV said:

Not surprised at all. The UMC, like the Roman Catholic church, has a history of reassigning problem pastors to distant conferences to be "rehabilitated." But that's ordained ministers. Unordained youth leaders don't have the same cover...

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TIDE-HSV said:

Had he been ordained, he would have been protected, from what you've said...

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TomFromBama said:

Well taken, and I agree.

But isn't this the epitome of the "Saul Alinsky" style attacks on faith so common in our culture today?

I've seen this kind of "argument" (or some variation) raised almost constantly most of my adult life. It typically seems to go something like this:
"IF you profess to follow this supposed Jesus Christ, who you claim was perfect, but if you (or for that matter, if ANY other professing Christian) are/is Not perfect, then you are a hypocrite AND all of Christianity (and by extension ALL faith of any sort, but ESPECIALLY Christianity) is all bunk and hokum, pure superstition and unworthy of any consideration by any "Logical" and "Rational" person like me."

That's pretty much the "argument" being made (if only by implication) in the linked article and here in this thread, isn't it?

Now - beyond that, there's a lot that could be discussed here from a theological perspective, but I've gathered in my few visits that this forum isn't very welcoming to people of faith, so I'll just leave it there.....

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selmaborntidefan said:

With all due respect.....

Pastors are indeed all too human. But even should it just be a guy who likes a nice ample setting of DDs (and really, what guy doesn't?), the fact remains that the standards for a church pastor are incredibly high and include being a one-woman man (1 tim 3). Sure, we all struggle with it but that's where the line of demarcation is, too. Maybe I'm naive but it seems to me there's a difference coming across a site with a provocative picture (not necessarily nude - goodness, you can see Russian women here on TF looking for men, with apologies to TW) and STORING this on your computer. What's that for, your later release?

The whole story permits MSDNC to float the idea that, "hey, maybe he's Sandusky/Jared Jr!"

I'm of the view the church is to be a hospital for sinners not a haven for the saints but the standards laid down are also clear. Very few actually meet them and that's how God intended it.

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Bamabuzzard said:

This is chasing a rabbit but I simply think there's too many full time paid positions within the church. I even struggle back and forth with rationalizing the need for any full time staff in our Western culture. Heck the Apostle Paul forfeited his right and earned his own keep. Full time staff easily lose touch with the secular world and in many cases their members as well. They cannot relate. I completely get the "Don't muzzle the ox" verse in scripture and it gets brought up to me by anyone in the ministry who is defending their position and pay within the church.

I agree the Bible teaches that those who work in the ministry have the right to have their needs met by the ministry. However, is there not any reasonable limits on this? In my opinion that verse is meant for the worker to have their basic needs met by the church. Not provide a lifestyle, that in many cases are far greater than a lot of their members. And back to the "Don't muzzle the ox" verse so frequently used by the clergy. The idea in the verse is for the ox to eat from the garden he's helping plow. Not eat the whole dang garden. I think there are too many pastors (and I'm not even talking about the mega church pastors) who are doing more eating than plowing.

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selmaborntidefan said:

The thing is this: on the whole MOST churches in America (as in about 99% of them) have 200 members or fewer. There aren't that many churches - in reality - where the pastor has this Joel Osteen-like lifestyle and most struggle to make ends meet. Of course, you DO have abuse and one of the problems in many modern churches (esp of my Baptist persuasion) is that their ecclesiology (doctrine of church) is not biblical but is instead an extended form of American vote at the polls democracy. The ancient church taught and practiced a PLURALITY of elders (e.g. leadership by team for those who don't know what I mean) precisely to prevent a situation like a single leader accumulating power and embezzling money. Or as happened in my parents' hometown in 2001, setting the church on fire to cover up your embezzlement.

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