A Review of P5 Teams vs Ranked Teams During the 1960s

selmaborntidefan

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This one is going to be much more difficult than the other ones.

College football in the 1960s was an entirely different game than now - almost to the point you'd think you were watching cricket as opposed to baseball. There are going to be several contributing factors to the overall assessment, and I'll use this data to determine an ultimate conclusion. This is just one guy's interpretation of the data and given how VERY CLOSE the results were in the other decades (except for the 2010s), I expect no less in the 1960s.

1) CFB was primarily a REGIONAL sport in the 1960s.

Cross country games with each other (like say Michigan vs USC) were extremely rare in the 1960s. The first sustained nonstop air flights in the USA began in 1953, and air travel was VERY expensive. Most schools did not have the luxury of playing – or risking to play – a team across the country with a venue half the size of the one on their own campus. Alabama could bring Southern Mississippi to town during those days of 43,000 seats in Bryant-Denny Stadium and pack the stadium and boost the local economy, get a win (4-0 in the 60s) and pocket a chunk of change for both schools. Had the Tide opted to travel to Nebraska back in those days, it would have cost UA a fortune and very likely would not have been shown on television (see more below).

2) Teams made their own schedules without control from a central conference office.

Modern apologists for their own mediocre SEC teams that always go to “the SEC offices are in Birmingham” (as if conspiracy theories are proof of, well, anything) don’t seem to realize that prior to 1970, SEC teams were in charge of their own schedules. There was one rule: you had to play AT LEAST six opponents within the conference to remain both eligible for the conference title and in the conference.

Alabama – as seems to always be the case – took a lot of criticism that in retrospect is just plain ludicrous. Not a word was ever said about Alabama’s schedule when the Tide was winning four games in three years under Ears Whitworth. But the moment that Alabama began winning national championships with more regularity than a strong laxative, all of a sudden the crying began about the Tide’s schedule, a cry that continues to this day regardless of whom Alabama beats. Yes, IT IS TRUE – Alabama and Ole Miss played ONE REGULAR SEASON GAME (and one Sugar Bowl) in the 32-year span of 1933-1965. That’s true.

But how is that Alabama’s fault?

LSU and Alabama had a somewhat similar story though not as extreme. From 1895-1945 (51 seasons), the two teams met 18 times and the Tide had a 12-3-3 advantage. From 1946-1968 (13 seasons), the teams met 9 times with LSU holding a 5-3-1 advantage that included the worst years in the history of Alabama football (which were 2 of those 5 wins). Then the two teams did not meet 1959-1963. Alabama started winning like crazy in 1960 and – all of a sudden – the tale became, “But Alabama doesn’t play LSU.”

Again – how is this Alabama’s fault?

The proof, of course, is in the pudding. Amazingly enough, Ole Miss and LSU were winning national championships like crazy……right up to the point both got Alabama on THEIR schedules every year (or almost). Alabama, by contrast, started winning titles left and right.

So in context, who’s to blame for this?

Of course, I’m willing to be fair and say nobody is really to “blame” for….well, what? What blame is there to go around? Remember – teams also had an incentive to not play one another and hope to match up in one of the bowl games, too.

Georgia Tech finished in the top ten five times in seven years from 1951-1957. The Ramblin’ Wreck went 6-1 against Alabama during that time frame. Paul Bryant walked through the door AND PLAYED GEORGIA TECH EVERY SINGLE YEAR from 1958-1964 and won 6 of 7 games, losing one only because of a failed 2-point conversion. Tech then left the conference (though to be fair there were other issues involved besides “we can’t beat Alabama now”). Bear in mind that Alabama played in a conference that produced national champions every single year 1957-1960 and then won one themselves in 1961. But they didn’t stop playing Auburn just because the Tigers won a national title. And then they added Ole Miss and LSU, so who exactly was afraid?

And that leads to another issue…..

3) Segregation (while not just a Southern phenomenon) was also a complicating factor in scheduling opponents.
Another fact of life when it came to scheduling college football games was simple: a number of the teams from the Eastern United States flat out refused to play road (some ANY) games with Southern teams because of the realities of Jim Crow and segregation. Boston College was one of the more outspoken ones, but the truth was that teams had legitimate concerns that something might happen to one or more of their players or teams. At the same time, SEC teams were refusing to play integrated teams, and credit goes to Kentucky for announcing in 1963 that they would seek games with integrated opponents.

Again, I don’t bring this up to excuse anything but merely to provide context. People can get angry that Alabama and Michigan State – two powers of the early 60s – never faced one another on the gridiron, but how could it have been any different? If Southern teams won’t play integrated ones and vice versa, you’re simply not going to get some of the games you should. Since the Big Ten (at that time) had a “no repeat” rule for the Rose Bowl and didn’t play other bowl games, the chances of Alabama and Michigan State meeting on the field were pretty much zilch. By the time Alabama integrated (even minimally), the Spartans were no longer a national power.

5) From 1962 to 1967, the AP only ranked ten teams.
Technically, they only “officially” ranked 10 teams in 1961, but you can see how the rankings panned out by seeing which teams wound up where in the “others receiving votes” in the final poll. Consequently, for 1962-1967, I will use the UPI poll (now called the coach’s poll). In those days, teams on probation were ineligible to be ranked, so this has the potential of affecting the final results as well.

6) The AP ranking system was not nearly as formalized as it is nowadays.
It was not uncommon for a number of the AP sportswriters to sit out the regular season voting and then suddenly submit a ballot for tabulation in the final rankings. While this never vaulted an unranked team to number one, it is a reality of the times.

7) Reminder: except for 1965, the AP poll did not begin counting the bowl games in the final rankings until 1968 while the UPI poll did not begin counting the bowl games until 1974. Which leads us to….

8) Bowl games and TV appearances were extremely limited, and bowl games were exhibition games that did not count in the standings.

In 1960, there were NINE bowl games – seven of them played across the days of December 30 through January 1. By the end of the decade, there were still only 11 bowls, and several conferences (Big Ten, Pac Eight) plus Notre Dame either forbid their teams from playing in them or they forbid them from playing in any but the bowl for the conference champion (e.g. Rose for the Big Ten/Pac Eight).

As I’ve said before, it is always amusing that Alabama gets ripped for the 1964 title while earlier teams that lost (including 1960 Minnesota) get a free pass. The anger over 1964 – ironically – wound up giving the Tide back-to-back titles when the AP went to a one-year “include the bowls” process for ranking.

9) Context is everything

All of the preceding narrative is simply to make the point that we shouldn’t expect to find a lot of games between top five teams, plus the narrowed rankings system will necessarily reduce the potential matchups. Don’t judge these teams or their ADs harshly by modern standards. Understand and interpret reality by the context of their time.

I’m fond of using baseball analogies as a number of folks know. Some are good, some are not so good. But you can’t look at the period of 1920-1941 when baseball had nine .400 hitters (6 different players) and conclude that hitters were better in the 20s and 30s than nowdays. You also can’t look at Carl Yastrzemski’s .301 batting average that won the 1968 AL batting title and conclude the hitters of the 1960s were a bunch of scrubs. Note that the most eye-popping PITCHING stats occurred during the same time frame. That doesn’t mean all the great pitchers were in the 60s or that Denny McLain was a better hurler than Greg Maddux (not even for one season).

Context matters!

Remember, everything squares directly at .500 in analysis.

Every point scored by an offense is a point surrendered by a defense.
Every game won by one team is a game lost by another team.
Every upset by an unranked team against #1 is ALSO a loss by a ranked team to an unranked team.

And so on………
 
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selmaborntidefan

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ALABAMA CRIMSON TIDE RECORD VS END OF YEAR RANKED OPPONENTS 1960-69
1960 – 1-0-1; beat Auburn (tied Texas, #17 UPI)
1961 – 1-0; beat Arkansas
1962 – 2-1; beat Miami, Oklahoma; lost to Ga Tech
1963 – 2-0; beat Auburn, Ole Miss (Sugar)
1964 – 1-1; beat LSU, lost to Texas; (knocked Ga Tech out of final rankings)*
1965 – 2-0-1; beat LSU, Nebraska (Orange); tied Tennessee

1966 – 3-0; beat Ole Miss, Tennessee, Nebraska (Sugar)
1967 – 0-1-1; lost to Vols; tied Florida St
1968 – 2-2; beat Auburn, LSU; lost to Vols and Mizzou (Gator)
1969 – 1-4; beat Ole Miss; lost to Vols, LSU, Auburn, Colorado

Overall record: 15-9-3
Overall record for decade: 90-16-4 (.767)
Percentage of games against EOY ranked teams: 21.7%
% of total wins against ranked teams: 13.6%
2010s Alabama % of games against EOY ranked teams: 35.2%
2010s Alabama % of games against EOY ranked teams EXCLUDING post-season: 25.8%

Alabama hit a peak in the span of 1963-1966, going 8-1-1 against ranked teams - and the sole loss being the infamous Joe Namath non-touchdown against Texas.

It will be interesting to see how other teams compare with Alabama during the time in question. There's NO DOUBT Alabama is THE team of 1960-1966.....but did they do enough to claim the decade?
 
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selmaborntidefan

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THE FIGHTING IRISH OF THAT PLACE THAT BURNED IN FRANCE (????)
1960 - 0-4; lost to Purdue, Michigan St, Navy, Iowa
1961 – 2-2; beat Purdue, Syracuse; lost to Michigan St, Duke
1962 – 1-3; beat Oklahoma; lost to Wisconsin, NWestern, USC
1963 –1-4; beat USC; lost to Pitt, Navy, Mich St, Syracuse
1964 – 0-1; lost to USC
1965 – 1-2; beat USC; lost to Purdue, Mich St
1966 – 2-0-1; beat Purdue, USC; tied Mich St
1967 – 0-2; lost to Purdue, USC
1968 –1-1-1; beat Oklahoma, lost to Purdue, tied USC
1969 – 0-2-1; lost to Purdue and Texas; tied USC
Overall record: 8-21-3
Overall record for decade: 62-34-4 (.630)
Percentage of games against EOY ranked teams: 32%
% of total wins against ranked teams: 8%

This actually left me more enraged over 1966 than I've ever been. "Well, Notre Dame plays more tougher teams." Well, okay but you have to actually BEAT THOSE TEAMS to make any claim to being great. ANYONE can lose to good teams. Hell, using that argument the service academies are the all-time greats.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded more than ever how 1966 ever happened. Consider this: Notre Dame was on the verge of winning the 1964 title, when they collapsed in the final minutes and lost to USC. That collapse won Alabama the 64 title.

But how was Notre Dame ranked on top in the first place? They'd played NO RANKED TEAMS to that point while Alabama had beaten two teams that AT THE TIME were in the top ten, LSU and Georgia Tech, in BACK TO BACK GAMES, one on the road. Notre Dame, by contrast, had played ONE TEAM with a winning record (Purdue) and a bunch of teams with losing records but grandiose names (Navy, Michigan St, UCLA - none of whom were worth a damn in 1964).

HOW can you rate Notre Dame AHEAD in 1964 and say the schedule doesn't matter but then rank them ahead in 1966 by saying it does???? HOW....THE....HELL....does that work????
 
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selmaborntidefan

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SOUTHERN CAL TROJANS RECORD VS EOY RANKED TEAMS 1960-69
1960 - 0-3; lost to Washington, Baylor, Ohio St
1961 -0-2; lost to Ga Tech, UCLA
1962 - 2-0; beat Duke and Wisconsin
1963 - 1-1; lost to Oklahoma, beat Michigan St
1964 - 1-1; beat N Dame, lost to Ohio St
1965 - 0-2; lost to N Dame, UCLA
1966 - 0-4; lost to Miami, UCLA, N Dame, Purdue
1967 - 3-1; beat N Dame, Indiana, UCLA; lost to Oregon St
1968 - 1-1-1; beat Oregon St, lost to Ohio St, tied N Dame
1969 - 4-0-1; beat Nebraska, Stanford, UCLA, Michigan; tied N Dame
Overall record: 12-15-2
Decade record: 76-25-4 (.742)
% of games against ranked teams: 27.6%
% of total wins against ranked teams: 11.4%

You look at USC's 1962 national championship where they beat ONE ranked team and wonder how in the hell they wound up the champions. (Remember - the Rose Bowl was AFTER the final vote).

Here's your final top ten:
USC 10-0
Wisconsin 8-1
Ole Miss 9-0
Texas 9-0-1
Alabama 9-1 (one first-place vote)
Arkansas 9-1 (loss to Texas)
LSU 8-1-1 (loss to Ole Miss)
Oklahoma 8-2 (losses to 5-5 N Dame and Texas)
Penn St 9-1 (played nobody with a pulse)
Minnesota 6-2-1

So how did USC prevail?

Mostly because the SEC had THREE TEAMS splitting votes in the top ten - and only two had played one another. Ole Miss had not played Alabama while the Tide had not played LSU. It should also be noted that LSU was the only team with a pulse on Ole Miss' schedule - and the Rebels got LSU seven days after a tough win against eventual 7-4 Florida.

Because Wisconsin lost to Ohio State who lost to UCLA who lost to unbeaten USC.....the circle said USC was the national champions.

(A lot of voters likely felt that Ole Miss would not have been able to beat the defending national champions, Alabama, whose sole loss was on a failed 2-point conversion against Ga Tech).
 
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selmaborntidefan

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MICHIGAN STATE SPARTANS RECORD VS EOY RANKED TEAMS 1960-69
1960 - 1-2; beat Purdue; lost to Ohio St, Iowa
1961 - 0-2; lost Minnesota, Purdue
1962 - 1-1; beat Northwestern; lost to Minnesota*
1963 - 1-2; beat N Carolina; lost to USC and Illinois (#3 nationally in final poll)
1964 - 1-3; beat USC; lost to N Dame, Illinois, Michigan
1965 - 5-1; beat UCLA, Purdue, Michigan, N Dame, Ohio St; lost to UCLA in Rose Bowl rematch
1966 - 1-0-1; beat Purdue, tied N Dame
1967 - 0-5; lost to USC, Purdue, Indy, N Dame, Minnesota
1968 - 1-3; beat N Dame; lost to Michigan, Ohio St, Purdue
1969 - 1-3; beat Michigan; lost to N Dame, Ohio St, Purdue
Overall record: 12-23
Decade record: 59-34-3 (.630)
Percent of games vs ranked teams: 33%
Percent of wins vs ranked teams:11.3%

Sparty had 3 losing seasons and got 19 of their 59 wins in 1965-66.




A bunch of rankings insanity to put it mildly.

1) In 1960, Purdue must have had some compromising photos of all the voters. Despite a 4-4-1 record, Purdue winds up ranked 19th in the country.

2) In 1961, Purdue finishes at 11 with a 6-3 record while Michigan is unranked with a 6-3 record. Defensible so long as you don't recall Michigan beat Purdue head-to-head.

3) In 1962, Michigan State beats 7-2 Northwestern, who is ranked 16th in the UPI poll. But Northwestern beat Minnesota head to head - and handily (34-22) on the road - but Minnesota is ranked SIX SPOTS AHEAD despite the bad loss and worse record.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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NEBRASKA RECORD VS EOY RANKED TEAMS 1960-69
Bill Jennings

1960 - 1-3; beat Texas; lost to Minnesota, Mizzou, Kansas
1961 - 0-4-1; lost to Syracuse, Mizzou, Kansas, Colorado; tied Arizona
Bob Devaney
1962 - 1-2; beat Miami; lost to Mizzou, Oklahoma
1963 - 3-0; beat Oklahoma, Missouri, Auburn
1964 - 1-1; beat Missouri, lost to Arkansas
1965 - 2-1; beat Colorado, Missouri; lost to Alabama
1966 - 1-1; beat Mizzou; lost to Alabama
1967 - 1-2; beat Minnesota; lost to Colorado, Oklahoma
1968 - 0-3; lost to Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma
1969 - 1-2; beat Colorado; lost to USC, Mizzou
Overall record: 11-19-1
Decade record: 75-30-1 (.712)
% of games vs ranked teams 29.2%
% of wins vs ranked teams 10.4%
 
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selmaborntidefan

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We can also establish that Bob Devaney was a damn good football coach and deserves the bulk of credit for building Nebraska into what they once were and never will be again.

Devaney took over in 1962 and was 10-11 against the ranked teams. Including his early 70s at the Corn Field, he was 17-13-1, which when you consider what he inherited and what he faced was DAMN good. Nebraska didn't win a single Big7/Big 8 conference title from 1941-1962. Look above and you'll see at one time Missouri pretty much owned Nebraska in the mid-20th century BD (before Devaney). From 1938 to 1962, Missouri went 19-6 against Nebraska. Prior to that the Huskers had gone 22-6-3 against Mizzou. Those numbers given those of us who recall Nebraska rolling Missouri through the gears of a combine every single year from 1979 to 2002 are rather interesting.

Devaney is also the one who hired Tom Osborne to be his offensive coordinator on the heels of consecutive 6-4 seasons. They then went 9-2 and then won consecutive national titles so for all the grief I give Husker fans over thinking Osborne is Bryant-level, the guy was without question a very good offensive mind.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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The other thing I'm seeing as I look closely is this:
Michigan State had 3 losing seasons in the 60s.
Notre Dame had 2 losing seasons and 2 seasons of 5-5 (.500)
USC had 2 losing seasons plus a 7-4 season and two 7-3 years.
Nebraska had 2 losing seasons and two 6-4 campaigns.

I haven't done the detailed view yet but Ohio State had one losing season (1966) and one other really bad year. And Michigan had four losing seasons out of ten.

By comparison, Alabama's late-60s floundering was pretty damned impressive. The 8-2-1 and 8-3 records of 1967 and 1968 weren't bad - indeed, most other teams would have loved to have had years like that. They only look bad because the seven years prior looked so good. Yeah, 6-5 in 1969 was a bummer - but on the flip side, Alabama played A LOT of good teams in conference in both 69 and 70 (going 1-9-1 against ranked teams).
 
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selmaborntidefan

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UCLA BRUINS RECORD VS EOY RANKED TEAMS 1960-1969
1960 - 1-1-1; beat Duke, lost to Washington; tied 4-4-1 Purdue
**1961 - 0-2 - lost to Ohio St, Minnesota
1962 - 0-2 - lost to Washington and #1 USC
1963 - 0-5 - lost to Pitt, Penn State, Illinois, Syracuse, USC
1964 - 0-3 - lost to Illinois, USC, N Dame
1965 - 2-2-1 - beat Syracuse, USC; lost to Sparty, Tenn; beat Sparty in a Rose Bowl rematch; tied Mizzou
1966 - 2-0 - beat Syracuse, USC
1967 - 2-2-1 - beat Tenn, Penn St; lost to USC, Syracuse; tied Oregon St
1968 - 0-4 - lost to Penn St, Tenn, Oregon St, USC
1969 - 0-1 - lost to USC
Overall record: 7-22-3
Decade record: 59-39-4 (.629)
% of games vs ranked teams: 33%
% of wins vs ranked teams: 7.2%

** - in 1961, UCLA played Michigan and Ohio State in back-to-back games on the road all the way across the country.

After looking up both USC and UCLA, I understand a lot more about why nobody gave them much regard.
 

selmaborntidefan

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UNIVERSITY OF AUBURN WAR EAGLE/TIGER TOTS RECORD VS EOY RANKED TEAMS 1960-69
1960 - 1-1; beat Florida, lost to Alabama
1961 - 0-2; lost to Ga Tech, #1 Alabama
1962 - 1-1; beat Ga Tech, lost to Alabama
1963 - 1-2; beat Alabama; lost to Miss St, Nebraska (Orange)
1964 - 0-1; lost to #1 Alabama
1965 - 1-2-1; beat Florida; lost to Alabama, Ole Miss; tied Tennessee
1966 - 0-5; lost to Tenn, Ga Tech, Florida, Georgia, Alabama
1967 - 0-4; lost to Tenn, Ga, Miami, Alabama
1968 - 1-3; beat Tenn; lost to SMU, UGA, Alabama
1969- 1-3; beat Florida; lost to Tenn, LSU, Houston (Bluebonnet Bowl)
Overall record: 6-23-1
Decade record: 65-37-2 (.635)
% of games against ranked teams: 28.8%
% of total wins against ranked teams: 5.8%

Okay, color me stunned as can be that Auburn has a better record in the 1960s than Notre Dame. Of course, the Irish also played SUBSTANTIALLY tougher schedules.....but still.........
 

selmaborntidefan

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SEC TEAM RECORDS DURING THE 1960S
Alabama 90-16-4
Ole Miss 77-25-6
LSU 76-26-5
Florida 70-31-4
Tennessee 67-32-6
Auburn 65-37-2
Georgia 59-42-8
Kentucky 37-58-5
Miss St 31-63-5
Georgia Tech 26-15-1 (4 years only)
Vanderbilt 24-70-6
Tulane 11-47-2

BIG TEN TEAM RECORDS DURING THE 1960S
Ohio State 68-21-2
Purdue 66-28-3
Michigan St 59-34-3
Minnesota 57-36-4
Michigan 55-40-2
Northwestern 38-58-1 (gets nod with 3-2 record of Iowa in 1960s)
Iowa 37-54-3
Illinois 36-59-1
Wisconsin 34-59-2
Indiana 33-56-1

I will have A LOT to say about Ole Miss in the next posting, which may not be until tomorrow.
Ole Miss clinches second - again, it's not close since the Rebels were 7-2-2 against LSU in the decade.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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This will likely be the most difficult post I've ever written here - one of them - because inevitably I'm going to tick off SOMEBODY with this post.

OLE MISS BLACK BEAR LAND SHARK REBELS RECORD VS EOY RANKED TEAMS 1960-69
1960 - 2-0 - beat Ark, Tenn
1961 - 1-2; beat Ark; lost to LSU, Texas
1962 - 2-0; beat LSU, Ark
1963 - 0-1-1; lost to Alabama (Sugar); tied MSU
1964 - 0-2; lost to LSU, Tulsa
1965 - 2-2; beat LSU, Tenn; lost to Alabama, Florida
1966 - 2-2; beat Houston, Tenn; lost to Alabama, UGA
1967 - 2-1; beat Houston, UGA; lost to Alabama
1968 - 2-3; beat Alabama, LSU; lost to Houston, UGA, Tenn
1969 - 3-1; beat LSU, Tenn, Arkansas; lost to Houston
Overall record: 16-14-1
Overall decade record: 77-25-6


I've not done Ole Miss for the other years because let's face it - when you go 50 years without even remotely challenging for the national title, you're not worthy. But last night while reading one of my many tomes on college football, I came across the following comment in the USA Today CFB Encyclopedia under the summary of 1960:

"Mississippi quietly battered its usual soft slate...As usual, Ole Miss' schedule managed to miss any confrontations with the iron of the SEC: Alabama, Florida, Auburn, or Georgia..."

Because Ole Miss bashing is pretty much second nature to a Tide fan, I was intrigued. Here was my opportunity to unload on Ole Miss, whose sole claim to fame is that a long time ago they were a big deal in one region of America. Unfortunately for me, the data DO NOT support that idea. Ole Miss WAS a very good team in the 1960s, no two ways about it. And they played more games against ranked teams than Alabama, USC, or Nebraska, and only one fewer than powerhouse Notre Dame.

And they won more than half of those games. You cannot do that if you aren’t a pretty good team. To put it in perspective: Ole Miss beat more ranked teams during the 1960s than 3-time national champion Alabama did. Granted, they also lost more – largely because they couldn’t beat those same Alabama teams.

Of course, SEC bashers will have two immediate objections: 1) but Ole Miss accumulated some of those via bowl games, which are not games the school scheduled; 2) SEC teams didn’t all play each other. Let’s deal with the second issue first since I already touched on it in the original post.

YES – that part is true. SEC teams were in charge of their own schedules prior to 1970, when the conference assumed control of which teams played which teams when. All a team had to do to remain eligible was schedule six games against SEC teams per year. These rules were slightly flexible for teams that had Georgia Tech and Tulane previously scheduled (when those teams left the SEC in the middle of the decade). And YES, Ole Miss rarely played the teams mentioned.

But they beat Arkansas three years in a row when the Hawgs had an overall record of 25-5 against teams NOT named Ole Miss. I find it a little difficult to blame Ole Miss in isolation for not playing all around the country (which few teams other than Notre Dame actually did) given the fact many teams refused to play Southern teams. And as far as the “but bowl games” argument, it actually improves the case for Ole Miss. Drop bowl games – in which Ole Miss was 2-4 – and they’re 14-10-1 overall, which is still better than anyone we’ve looked at to this point except Alabama.

And btw – where does the USA Today CFB Encyclopedia get off with the comment about how Ole Miss “didn’t play Auburn”? Ole Miss’ record during the 1960s was a full TEN GAMES better than Auburn, and they played almost the same number of good teams……so wouldn’t it be more accurate to say Auburn didn’t play Ole Miss (not that I hold to that, either, but it sure is convenient).

Furthermore, this was NOT an SEC only phenomenon. In general, the conferences with eight teams (Big 8 and AAWU, now called the Pac 12) played every other team in the conference every year – although the ACC had years when their eight conference teams got to skip someone in the rotation. Remember, those were ten-game seasons back in the 1960s. Early in the decade, the SEC had 12 teams – and common sense tells you that in a 10-game season, you’re going to miss one of the other teams if you play only in-conference games. And the SEC was establishing rivalry games with out of conference foes. Consider the example of Florida. The Gators had played Miami every year since 1938, and in 1958, they added Florida State. Had the SEC required round robin play back then, what would Florida have done? They were guaranteed much more money with less travel expense with the in-state rivals. The reality is that in a 10-game season, Florida could not play Miami and Florida State AND every other team in the SEC – and especially in those “almost none of these games are on TV” days, the name of the game was selling out the on-site stadium, which was far more guaranteed with an in-state rival than if Florida hosted Vandy and then played next year on the road.

In 1961, Ohio State won the Big Ten and finished runner-up to Alabama in the polls. NEVER MIND that the Buckeyes didn’t meet the number 2, 3, OR 4 best teams in the Big Ten on the playing field. Again, I don’t have any problem with this at all – just so long as you don’t criticize Southern teams for the same issue, particularly when there were 12 teams in the SEC at the time. The Buckeyes (with an 8-0-1 record) got nearly as many first-place votes (20) as Alabama did (26) despite the fact they had a tie with 3-5-2 TCU and didn’t play any of those three tough foes. Of course, Alabama didn’t play LSU or Ole Miss, either – but this “both sides” point only gets made in one direction for some reason.

Of course, there's an elephant in the room when we discuss Southern college football of the 1950s and 1960s in particular, and we all know what it is: the simple fact of racism (and Jim Crow).

This is where evaluating SEC teams of the time frame not named Alabama gets a little more difficult. I exclude Alabama simply because the Tide DID play Oklahoma and Nebraska, and while I'll grant Oklahoma has more of a Southern feel to the state than a Northern one (in the area of civil rights), Nebraska had black players on their team in 1966 and 1967 when Alabama drilled them for 39 and then 34 points.
 

selmaborntidefan

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There are a series of realities that make evaluating this circumstance VERY difficult:

1) Northern teams refused to play Southern teams.

This is a reality of life, and it was largely because most of the Southern teams would insist on whatever black players were on the Northern teams not playing in the game. And you can hardly blame the Northern teams here. They seemed to feel - with a lot of justification and evidence I might add - that they either had to segregate their black players in society OR if they played that they might get ganged upon and hurt in the course of the game. This happened more than once - team has one black player, he gets buried in a scrum and goes off injured and never plays again. So the fear was entirely legitimate, and at this point I'm only referring to ON the field.

2) Southern teams refused to let black players on Northern teams play.

Yes, you can find exceptions, such as when UVA played Harvard in 1947 and beat them like a rented mule. But even as late as the 1956 Sugar Bowl, you had the governor of Georgia demanding they not play against Pitt, who had a black phenom named Bobby Grier on their team. That same year, the states of Mississippi and Louisiana passed laws that forbid games between blacks and whites......which is why when you look at that list of Sugar Bowl results from 1957 onward to 1965 is nothing but a bunch of Southern teams plapying each other.

IT WAS a fact of life. Let's not deny that reality. But then you have...

3) By contrast, some of the AP voters admitted openly they would not vote for Southern teams in the polls that practiced segregation.

Given those twin realities - Ole Miss wasn't going to get to play ranked opponents. Sure, we at Alabama can mock it now, but they were hardly singing solo, folks. Ole Miss' record is compiled entirely on the basis of playing in a powerhouse conference whose teams may well have been UNDERRATED in some cases.


How in the hell can you evaluate these things?

Evaluation begins at standard 0. Teams are compared on the basis of how they stack up against what is - in reality - a nonexistent, assumed standard. THEN teams are compared in context with their peers. Ole Miss stacks up well compared to 0, not so well (through things that were there fault as well as things that were not) in context.


Ole Miss WAS - in reality - the 2nd best SEC team of the 1960s. This much is indisputable. Much as Alabama, they compiled their monster numbers pre-Civil Rights law, but let's remember that even in 1970 and 1971, Ole Miss was putting Top Ten products on the field (the Rebels had their first black player, Ben Williams, in 1971).


Let this also stand as a stark reminder: if Alabama had NOT had Paul Bryant, the Arkansas-born head coach and a man who realized where the sport was going, Alabama might well TODAY be Ole Miss in football. I'm not going to argue that every single thing Bryant did (or the state or the university) was correct. But simply compare the trajectory of the two programs. Bryant embraced - belatedly, yes - integration as a reality of life. (Indeed, he was known to send black players to Northern and Western schools to keep his more progressive opponents in and out of conference from beating him with those players). Johnny Vaught, by comparison, stood defiantly years after walls were coming down and declared that as long as he was the head coach at Ole Miss, there would never be a black player on that football team. And he was right. Vaught quit after 1970, and they got Williams in 1971. Vaught then returned to close out the 1973 season and retired. Ole Miss continued - and continues - to resist change, going several years before removing Colonel Rebel, the name, and the Confederate flag.

Ole Miss has been mostly a joke in college football for half a century now. But let's not deny them their due. They WERE once a very good team, and the record supports it.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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TEXAS LONGHORNS RECORD VS END OF YEAR RANKED TEAMS 1960-1969
1960 - 1-1-1; beat Baylor, lost to Arky, tied Alabama (Bluebonnet)
1961 - 3-0; beat Arkansas, Rice, Ole Miss (Cotton)
1962 - 2-1; beat Oklahoma, Arky; lost to LSU (Cotton)
1963 - 2-0; beat Oklahoma, Navy (Cotton - Roger Staubach)
1964 - 1-1; lost to Arky; beat Alabama (Orange)
1965 - 1-1; lost to Arky, beat Texas Tech
1966 - 1-3; lost to USC, Arky, SMU; beat Ole Miss (Bluebonnet)
1967 - 1-1; beat Oklahoma, lost to USC
1968 - 3-0; beat Arky, SMU, Tennessee (Cotton)
1969 - 2-0; beat Arky, Notre Dame
Overall record: 17-8-1

Overall record for the decade: 86-19-3 (.810)
% of games against ranked teams: 24%
% of wins against ranked teams: 15.7%

There's a compelling case - a VERY good one - for Texas as the team of the 1960s. I'll do microanalysis and make a conclusion.
 
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