Alabama QB competition article

westide

All-SEC
Jan 22, 2011
1,998
1,280
187
Some of you guys are making me want to root for Jalen to transfer somewhere else and win a National Championship there, just to spite you.
Jalen is already wearing a National Championship ring. He was one second away from having two. If he went to another school and won a NC that still would not prove that he is a better QB than Tua nor that some of the criticism of his play is not valid.
 
Last edited:

gman4tide

All-American
Nov 21, 2005
2,003
605
137
57
Flint Creek
I think the reason this is such a hard call is that everyone loves Jalen. He is a great team mate, a great leader, has a great personality. Everyone wants him to do great. We all want him to reach that next level. However no matter how much we pull for him he just seems unable to do so. I kind of think if he went to Louisville, where they play a more wide open offense, he'd excel.
Agree with all but your last comment. I think the UL system, and any like it, is too fast for his mental processing. Maybe if he went to Tech...where they huddle, have a player run the play in...and have 1 receiver routes. And yall, i'm not digging on the kid. Have been a jalen fan since he won team in practice his freshman year. But he apparently processes info at the same rate i do.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
22,932
21,015
282
Boone, NC
Can't really argue with most of this, but, the whole season, I had the feeling that Jalen could throw the ball better than he did. Time after time, a receiver would come open and Jalen would be looking right at him. Inside, I was screaming "Throw it, Jalen!" Instead, he'd pull the ball down and take off running. For whatever reason, he just has a hard time pulling the trigger, even when he knows he should...
I had the same feeling as well. I don't think it's the talent issue.. I think it's the between the ear issue.
I would agree that most of Jalen's performance issues are rooted more in the mental, rather than physical. That being said, Tua's ability to process information and make decisions quickly place him head and shoulders above Jalen at this point.
Another instance that shows Jalen's mindset was one of his comments regarding the game-winning throw, "I couldn't believe the threw it." We know that Devonta was relatively wide open.
I don't think it's entirely a mental thing with Jalen. When he does throw it he's very inconsistent. We all can remember some passes he made that totally missed a wide open receiver. Badly overthrowing a wide open Ridley in the endzone, first quarter of the title game, is just one example. He knows he's inconsistent so he's not confident, and so it becomes a mental thing.
I just tagged, what I think are three reasons Jalen struggled....I'm not saying you all meant to suggests there is just one...but I think it comes down to three things...maybe in this order:

1. Vision: He didn't see Devota as being open when he was. To Tua, it would seem that play was relatively a simple throw that he's done a bunch of times.

2. Accuracy: When Jalen sees someone "wide open" he knows he's not a very accurate thrower so he hesitates. We've seen him throw 3 yards behind, 2 yards low or 5 yards high so many times. Compare that to Tua and he usually hits guys in the hands or at least close enought for them to reach out and touch the ball.

3. Between the ears...is what I'd simply call confidence. I don't think it's a reflection at all of his intelligence. But because he doesn't see plays developing and can't throw guys open AND because even when they are "open" to him he isn't confident in his accuracy...it really is a confidence issue...almost like a golfer getting the yips on a three foot put....he just had trouble pulling the trigger.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,966
5,483
187
45
kraizy.art
JT Barrett 2.0? Not sure how much of an upgrade over Barrett he would be..
I think it is a very legitimate comparison, and in some ways explains my frustration with how some treat Hurts. Yes, he is a lot like JT, but on the other hand JT got a lot of credit and was a Heisman candidate so on so forth, while some people have basically said if they had to watch Hurts play any more they'd stop watching Alabama (which is a pretty alarming condemnation). Also, I'd add that Urban Meyer has dealt with not just JT, but a guy like Tebow (great runner, limited passer) with a reasonable amount of success.

I'd be wary of Hurts landing in the wrong spot, for all the criticism he has received for his downfield passing game, I still wouldn't like to see Alabama facing him if he's in the right offense. Alabama got beat by Nick Marshall, even if Hurts doesn't progress much as a passer, he'd be a dangerous opponent on the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) team.
 

drwho

Suspended
Dec 11, 2013
1,685
0
55
I think it is a very legitimate comparison, and in some ways explains my frustration with how some treat Hurts. Yes, he is a lot like JT, but on the other hand JT got a lot of credit and was a Heisman candidate so on so forth, while some people have basically said if they had to watch Hurts play any more they'd stop watching Alabama (which is a pretty alarming condemnation). Also, I'd add that Urban Meyer has dealt with not just JT, but a guy like Tebow (great runner, limited passer) with a reasonable amount of success.

I'd be wary of Hurts landing in the wrong spot, for all the criticism he has received for his downfield passing game, I still wouldn't like to see Alabama facing him if he's in the right offense. Alabama got beat by Nick Marshall, even if Hurts doesn't progress much as a passer, he'd be a dangerous opponent on the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) team.
I think we'd be fine defending him if it came to that.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
22,932
21,015
282
Boone, NC
I'd be wary of Hurts landing in the wrong spot, for all the criticism he has received for his downfield passing game, I still wouldn't like to see Alabama facing him if he's in the right offense. Alabama got beat by Nick Marshall, even if Hurts doesn't progress much as a passer, he'd be a dangerous opponent on the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) team.
First, if the teams we've played with above average defenses can basically regulate our offense to a series of 3 and outs with Jalen as our QB, I believe our defense, with the best talent and best coach, could figure that out if it came to it. Sure, he's good enough to hurt any defense with a a few broken tackles and scrambling runs, but that's about it.

I don't think we can divorce Jalen's running/scrambling ability from the great talent around him. It means something we you are faking a handoff to one of our running backs and, even though he struggled to hit receivers, defenses still had to pay attention. IOW, put Jalen in an offense with much less talent and he's not the same player as he is at Bama.

Second, I don't think it's fair to compare the situation to Nick Marshall. I don't think he was anymore accurate than Hurts, but he had something Hurts never learned: the vision and confidence to turn it loose when guys were open. That's maybe the one thing that would have kept Jalen on the field...but we know there were open guys and he just didn't see them or wasn't confident enough to let it go.

Also, we all know that Auburn lives to beat Bama and so it wasn't just a Nick Marshall show that beat Bama.
 
Last edited:

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
68,624
84,150
462
crimsonaudio.net
I don't think it's entirely a mental thing with Jalen. When he does throw it he's very inconsistent. We all can remember some passes he made that totally missed a wide open receiver. Badly overthrowing a wide open Ridley in the endzone, first quarter of the title game, is just one example. He knows he's inconsistent so he's not confident, and so it becomes a mental thing.
Even the little things, like hitting a RB in the flat in stride or hitting the WR on a screen where he doesn't have to turn around to catch the ball - these are things we consistently see Tua do better.

I'd love to see Hurts progress and challenge Tua, but man, Tua's pace last year was a TD for every seven passes thrown. That's legit and it's the sum of all his parts: great arm with a quick release, lightning fast reads and processing what he sees, and doing all the little things correctly.

Tua will make mistakes - probably more than Hurts - but his play will more than make up for it, imo.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
22,932
21,015
282
Boone, NC
Even the little things, like hitting a RB in the flat in stride or hitting the WR on a screen where he doesn't have to turn around to catch the ball - these are things we consistently see Tua do better.

I'd love to see Hurts progress and challenge Tua, but man, Tua's pace last year was a TD for every seven passes thrown. That's legit and it's the sum of all his parts: great arm with a quick release, lightning fast reads and processing what he sees, and doing all the little things correctly.

Tua will make mistakes - probably more than Hurts - but his play will more than make up for it, imo.
I made this comment last year at some point, but I remember in the very first fall camp video that AL.com releases when practice starts and they had about a 3 minute video of Jalen and Tua alternating throwing simple little passes like a 5 yard sideline pattern or a little running back pattern into the flats and I commented right then that Jalen was consistenly throwing off target and Tau was hitting guys between the numbers in stride.

It was the very first thing I noticed when comparing the two. I think Jalen's struggles with accuracy, even on a short little throw, is what leads to his hesitation on bigger, downfield routes.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,966
5,483
187
45
kraizy.art
Second, I don't think it's fair to compare the situation to Nick Marshall.
I do think it's completely fair. We're talking about how Hurts could perform in a system that's a better fit for his skill set. I mean we can do a lot of mental calisthenics, but the truth is Hurts did move the ball at Alabama most of the time. Even his first A-Day, playing against the most talented defense in the nation, he moved the ball. So, I think it's a pretty big reach to say oh yeah, that guy is just a product of the talent around him, when 2 out of 3 A-Days he played against elite talent and still got it done.

He has limitations, obviously, but I have watched plenty of college football and seen a lot of passers with serious limitations as a downfield passer. There are entire offenses built around short stuff and running QBs, but Alabama's offense did not want to be that. I don't blame them, but people are fixated on how Hurts performed against elite defenses within Alabama's system (which is really a niche scenario). They forget what he looked like when he was doing what he did best. The truth is, even if people don't want to admit it, Hurts is a good college quarterback. He just didn't develop properly for the type of offense Alabama wants to have. Anyone who concludes he's not a dangerous QB in an offense catered to his skill set is simply underestimating what he's capable of.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
7
0
Prattville
Nick Marshall averaged 8.5 yards per attempt.

Jalen Hurts averages 7.6 yards per attempt.

Marshall could accurately throw a deep ball. Jalen hasn't consistently done it.

Saying Jalen could work in the offense Nick Marshall ran is just not true.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,966
5,483
187
45
kraizy.art
Nick Marshall averaged 8.5 yards per attempt.

Jalen Hurts averages 7.6 yards per attempt.

Marshall could accurately throw a deep ball. Jalen hasn't consistently done it.

Saying Jalen could work in the offense Nick Marshall ran is just not true.
Last year Jalen Hurts averaged 8.7 yards per attempt. That aside, you say what Jalen hasn't consistently done, and then follow that up with saying what he can't do. Those two things are not necessarily the same thing. I hope he doesn't go to Auburn, but I do think Gus could relieve some of the pressure on him as a passer and exploit his abilities as a runner. In either case, he has three years left to show what he's capable of, and we can speculate all we want but we won't really know for sure until it is all said and done.

Edit: I had to check since it almost sounded like I remembered Auburn using Marshall differently. For example, in 2013 he had a two game stretch in which he only threw the ball a combined 15 times! In two games! He ran the ball 23 times over those two games. Those were both SEC games that Auburn won comfortably, so sometimes with Marshall they were not even trying to pass. Even against Alabama, Marshall only threw the ball for 97 yards, and didn't a lot of those yards involve one illegal man downfield pass that went for big yards (his longest pass of the game, he threw about 15 yards in the air to a wide open Coates)?
 
Last edited:

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
22,932
21,015
282
Boone, NC
Dude... last year Jalen Hurts averaged 8.7 yards per attempt. That aside, you say what Jalen hasn't consistently done, and then follow that up with saying what he can't do. Those two things are not necessarily the same thing. I hope he doesn't go to Auburn, but I do think Gus could relieve some of the pressure on him as a passer and exploit his abilities as a runner. In either case, he has three years left to show what he's capable of, and we can speculate all we want but we won't really know for sure until it is all said and done.

Edit: I had to check since it almost sounded like I remembered Auburn using Marshall differently. For example, in 2013 he had a two game stretch in which he only threw the ball a combined 15 times! In two games! He ran the ball 23 times over those two games. Those were both SEC games that Auburn won comfortably, so sometimes with Marshall they were not even trying to pass. Even against Alabama, Marshall only threw the ball for 97 yards, and didn't a lot of those yards involve one illegal man downfield pass that went for big yards (his longest pass of the game, he threw about 15 yards in the air to a wide open Coates)?
Your kinda making the point...Auburn was a different animal with Gus' trickeration. If Nick Marshal only threw for 97 yards against us that means they beat us another way...and it wasn't just all Nick Marshall. The whole Auburn getting up for Bama is a wildcard in this.

Here's the thing: If Jalen isn't effective in the passing game, he's not effective in the running game. We've seen how a good defense can bottle him up and take away the easy throws and we know what that looks like.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
22,932
21,015
282
Boone, NC
BTW...we've established that Jalen can win about 8 or 9 of our games and he could probably do that without passing the passing the ball more than 8-10 during those games. Teams that don't have a great defense going against our offense aren't going to stop us no matter who the QB is.

So it's the other 3 or 4 games and the SECCG and CFP games that this boils down to. Take his tendencies and stats in those games, and that's the issue.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
10,017
8,865
187
In the right offense Jalen could likely be more effective than he has been here. But, similarly to a Lamar Jackson he would likely still struggle against the better defenses he faces. And, no I'm not saying Jalen is as good as Lamar Jackson (he's not).
 

New Posts

Latest threads