Alabama QB Mount Rushmore Heads
- Thread starter BamaMoon
- Start date
I'd like to add Stabler to the mountaintop as well, despite making it five !
And, As an old guy who likes to reminisce, I'd add , just below the mountaintop, Richard Todd, Scott Hunter and young buck Mac.
And, As an old guy who likes to reminisce, I'd add , just below the mountaintop, Richard Todd, Scott Hunter and young buck Mac.
Well I’m an even older guy. I think Pat Trammell needs to at least be “in the discussion”. Under Bryant, it was Trammell that was pivotal in returning Alabama to national prominence in 1961.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Pat Trammell - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
I loved watching Bryce Young play, but I don't know how one can put him up there before Mac Jones.
To each their own, but Bryce is probably the best QB to ever play at Bama. It didn’t work out for him, but that certainly wasn’t his fault. I say this as someone who thinks the world of Mac.
Its not an easy questions when you start comparing across eras. For example, Joe Namath had 374 pass attempts while at Alabama, Ken Stabler had 303. By comparison, BY had 949. AJM had 1026. Tua and Mac had 684 and 556 respectively.
www.sports-reference.com
The game has changes so much, even in the past few years when you consider that Mac basically played one season and yet had almost as many attempts as Tua had in almost two.
The ColdHardFootballFacts website did this for NFL QB several years ago, and they settled on the yards per attempt based on the idea that new schemes focus on short completions while decades ago, passes were longer with lower completion percentages.
Using that basic state the top 5 would be:
1 Mac
2 Tua
3 Jeff Rutledge
4 Bryce
5 AJ
If you change that to Adjusted Yards per attempt, which attempts to include TD and interceptions as factors, the top five change to:
1. Tua
2, Mac
3. Bryce
4. AJ
5. Greg McElroy
None of that counts for running QB, and none of the above accounts for longevity. Given that Mac only played a season and a bit, while AJ played 3 full seasons.
IF you add rushing TD to passing TD and sort that, you get a new list:
1. Tua
2. Bryce
3. AJ
4. Jalen
5. Mac
But this also indicates the changes in FB with the emphasis on scoring. For example, Joe Namath had 39 total TD, and GMac had 41, but I don't think anyone would argue the actual order in ranking.
What the data does indicate is that while you can pull some key names from the past into the list, the QB over the past several years (Hurts, Tua, Mac, Bryce) and even AJM are all among the best Alabama has had in its history. Unfortunately, you cannot measure intangibles in stats, and there is no way to account for what the QB was not asked to do, which is always going to hurt the likes of Trammel, Rutledge, Todd and even Stabler and Namath.
I would have loved to see Stabler or Namath running one of today's offenses. I suspect we'd see similar numbers to those we saw the past 5-6 years.
Alabama Crimson Tide Passing Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
Check out the Alabama Crimson Tide Passing Stats and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com
The game has changes so much, even in the past few years when you consider that Mac basically played one season and yet had almost as many attempts as Tua had in almost two.
The ColdHardFootballFacts website did this for NFL QB several years ago, and they settled on the yards per attempt based on the idea that new schemes focus on short completions while decades ago, passes were longer with lower completion percentages.
Using that basic state the top 5 would be:
1 Mac
2 Tua
3 Jeff Rutledge
4 Bryce
5 AJ
If you change that to Adjusted Yards per attempt, which attempts to include TD and interceptions as factors, the top five change to:
1. Tua
2, Mac
3. Bryce
4. AJ
5. Greg McElroy
None of that counts for running QB, and none of the above accounts for longevity. Given that Mac only played a season and a bit, while AJ played 3 full seasons.
IF you add rushing TD to passing TD and sort that, you get a new list:
1. Tua
2. Bryce
3. AJ
4. Jalen
5. Mac
But this also indicates the changes in FB with the emphasis on scoring. For example, Joe Namath had 39 total TD, and GMac had 41, but I don't think anyone would argue the actual order in ranking.
What the data does indicate is that while you can pull some key names from the past into the list, the QB over the past several years (Hurts, Tua, Mac, Bryce) and even AJM are all among the best Alabama has had in its history. Unfortunately, you cannot measure intangibles in stats, and there is no way to account for what the QB was not asked to do, which is always going to hurt the likes of Trammel, Rutledge, Todd and even Stabler and Namath.
I would have loved to see Stabler or Namath running one of today's offenses. I suspect we'd see similar numbers to those we saw the past 5-6 years.
No particular order... Trammel, Namath, Bryce, Stabler. Then Tua, Mac, AJ, Hurts... Rutledge... . Sloan... Coker... McElroy
Edit to add McElroy
Edit to add McElroy
Mount Rushmore, as I would define it, would be more than simply stats.
Joe Namath
Tua Tagovailoa
AJ McCarron
Bryce Young
Joe Willie was a cultural icon. IMO, it is why he made the NFL HOF, despite the lack of worthy stats. That, along with the Super Bowl III guarantee and win.
Tua is also a icon somewhat bigger than the game itself. Coming off the bench and beating Georgia with the walk off TD pass in OT did that for him and he backed it up with stellar play in the next 2 seasons. Like Namath, he is injury cursed, but hopefully that will turn around for him. But the "larger than life" factor puts his bust on the mountain side.
AJ, IMO, is "Mr. Football" of the Nick Saban era. He should have won 3 NCs in a row. There are a lot of great plays he made in the biggest games. GMac led us to the first Nick Saban NC, but AJ took it to the sky high level we have been on for the last 15 years.
Bryce makes the list over several other worthy candidates for one reason: he is Alabama's first Heisman QB. I would absolutely have LOVED to see him operate a Sarkisian offense. But alas, he was stuck with BoB, and still won the Heisman and broke all of Alabama's single season records.
Honorable mention: Mac Jones, Pat Trammell, Kenny Stabler, Dixie Howell, and Jeff Rutledge. Edited because I have a horrible memory. Jalen Hurts is obviously honorable mention, as is Harry Gilmer.
Joe Namath
Tua Tagovailoa
AJ McCarron
Bryce Young
Joe Willie was a cultural icon. IMO, it is why he made the NFL HOF, despite the lack of worthy stats. That, along with the Super Bowl III guarantee and win.
Tua is also a icon somewhat bigger than the game itself. Coming off the bench and beating Georgia with the walk off TD pass in OT did that for him and he backed it up with stellar play in the next 2 seasons. Like Namath, he is injury cursed, but hopefully that will turn around for him. But the "larger than life" factor puts his bust on the mountain side.
AJ, IMO, is "Mr. Football" of the Nick Saban era. He should have won 3 NCs in a row. There are a lot of great plays he made in the biggest games. GMac led us to the first Nick Saban NC, but AJ took it to the sky high level we have been on for the last 15 years.
Bryce makes the list over several other worthy candidates for one reason: he is Alabama's first Heisman QB. I would absolutely have LOVED to see him operate a Sarkisian offense. But alas, he was stuck with BoB, and still won the Heisman and broke all of Alabama's single season records.
Honorable mention: Mac Jones, Pat Trammell, Kenny Stabler, Dixie Howell, and Jeff Rutledge. Edited because I have a horrible memory. Jalen Hurts is obviously honorable mention, as is Harry Gilmer.
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As pointed out by other posters the stats for quarterbacks today are wildly different from the old days. My dad played at Bama (very very sparingly) for two yrs with Harry Gilmer. Gilmer led the country in TD passes his best yr with 13! That was considered so impressive he was the #1 pick in the NFL draft !
I can't argue about how incredible Bryce was for us, and if he'd been 6'3"/225 he'd have been considered as possibly the best NFL QB prospect since John Elway.
Mike Shula held the Bama record with something like 17 in a season until who was it, Brodie Croyle?
QB's throw 17 touchdowns in 4 games now.
I don't see how to leave Stabler and Namath off the list. The combination of success at the college level and the NFL makes them an easy pick in my mind.
I didn't see qualifiers so I don't see how not to make NFL success part of the equation. In some cases the players didn't have much of a chance to thrive in college but did so in NFL, this wasn't their fault.
The best example of that would be Bart Starr. Arguably the best quarterback Alabama has ever had, but there were issues in college that kept him from having as much success while at Alabama.
The flip side would be someone like AJ, who had as successful a career at Alabama as anyone could have hoped, but a mediocre career in the NFL.
What is the goal here? To reward statistical excellence in college? Or to reward championships? Bryce won 0 as a starter, AJ won 2. Tua won one coming off the bench, and Hurts went to the Super Bowl and played lights out.
If you make a list without qualifiers, I think it would include every name I mentioned and Mac as well
Stabler, Namath, Starr, AJ, Hurts, Tua, Mac and Young.
Now, who do you exclude? I guess that's based on your criteria right? Do you favor success in the NFL or college? Do you favor championships or statistics?
There's obviously some recency bias there, which is why I think keeping Stabler and Namath on the list is so important. Then it's 6 more guys and 2 more spots, I think you can make an argument for pretty much any of those six names.
I didn't see qualifiers so I don't see how not to make NFL success part of the equation. In some cases the players didn't have much of a chance to thrive in college but did so in NFL, this wasn't their fault.
The best example of that would be Bart Starr. Arguably the best quarterback Alabama has ever had, but there were issues in college that kept him from having as much success while at Alabama.
The flip side would be someone like AJ, who had as successful a career at Alabama as anyone could have hoped, but a mediocre career in the NFL.
What is the goal here? To reward statistical excellence in college? Or to reward championships? Bryce won 0 as a starter, AJ won 2. Tua won one coming off the bench, and Hurts went to the Super Bowl and played lights out.
If you make a list without qualifiers, I think it would include every name I mentioned and Mac as well
Stabler, Namath, Starr, AJ, Hurts, Tua, Mac and Young.
Now, who do you exclude? I guess that's based on your criteria right? Do you favor success in the NFL or college? Do you favor championships or statistics?
There's obviously some recency bias there, which is why I think keeping Stabler and Namath on the list is so important. Then it's 6 more guys and 2 more spots, I think you can make an argument for pretty much any of those six names.
I love this thread because its actually a healthy discussion 
But it might be easier to have The HALL OF ALABAMA QUARTERBACKS and we should be discussing who would be the honored speaker to taut the great moments of each that deserved a mention.
But it might be easier to have The HALL OF ALABAMA QUARTERBACKS and we should be discussing who would be the honored speaker to taut the great moments of each that deserved a mention. The best 5 I have seen play
1. Bryce Young
2. Mac Brown
3. Steadman Shealy/Jeff Rutledge
4. Tua
5. AJ McCarron
The 5 most famous
1. Joe Willie
2. Ken Stabler
3. Bryce Young
4. Tua
5. Jalen Hurts
1. Bryce Young
2. Mac Brown
3. Steadman Shealy/Jeff Rutledge
4. Tua
5. AJ McCarron
The 5 most famous
1. Joe Willie
2. Ken Stabler
3. Bryce Young
4. Tua
5. Jalen Hurts
I'm no Bama football historian, but I believe Starr was much better in the NFL than in college, and his college career was marred by some injuries and the team was pretty bad. I think this was during the "Ears" Whitworth era.How do you forget Bart Star?
If you're going only by the pros then the 3 obvious inclusions would be Starr, Namath and Snake. The 4th spot is a tough one but Bama does have active QBs with a lot to prove.
Imagine this discussion before 2011??? It would have been relatively easy.
The last 12 seasons have really changed the narrative.
The last 12 seasons have really changed the narrative.
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