Alabama QBs in 2024, II

[colbysullivan]

Two great posts, IMO.

PA's bullet points paint the picture as well as it can be understood, IMO. Conspiracy theories exist in place of a vacuum. You can choose to believe CNS was fully in control (which he wasn't and it's leaking out now that he wasn't - see post #79 by JD Crimson and many of '81's post) OR you can follow the events that happened and use your common sense. @davefrat CNS definitely said at some point that the team chose Jalen. I don't have the quote saved to offer proof but it was discussed at length on here!

So there's no question that last year there was probably more drama than in all the other years combined. It was the perfect storm of CNS's soft side and uncertainty of when to retire and the NIL/portal storm.

I've thought about it a lot and there's only one thing after the USF game that I think might have allowed this to play out better. Instead of CNS declaring Jalen as starter (this is when he said the team chose Jalen) if CNS would have been honest and said JM had been suspended and also if he would have declared they'd use to next couple of weeks to let JM, TS and TB duke it out in practices and games. But, as it occurred, with the team not trying in the USF gave and then JM being "given" the starting role back by the team choosing him, it just gave off a terrible look and feel for the season unfolding.

If JM would have simply dominated and played unbelievably those of us who have been labeled "anti-Jalen" would not have had a "leg to stand on" in regards to our objective pushback of his skills or lack thereof. But because he struggled and we were barely able to beat mid-level SEC teams AND because CTR had to dumb down the offense (call it what you want to call it but that's what we did - we simplified the offense so Jalen could hopefully run it better) it just left a very unsatisfied feeling that even if TS would have been a better option as the season went on that he would have never been given the opportunity because JM had been crowned as the favorite among the OL and the media played along to act as if he was the greatest thing since sliced bread even though the results on the field proved otherwise.

Man, this is a perfect post.

 

[davefrat]

The OL won that game. They played like the 2012 OL that day.

That's why it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, the OL kind of dominated that night.

 

[81usaf92]

If you want to know how in the world we beat Georgia in the SEC championship amid all this season upheaval you have to ask yourself why you believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny???

Sometimes magic happens despite reality.

It was almost like the "football gods" wanted to foil a Georgia three-peat and allow CNS to have one more day in the sun before he retired at season's end.

One of these days a long, long time from now, our grandchildren will ask us if Bama really beat Georgia that day for CNS's last SEC championship and we'll be able to set them in our lap and say "Yes, it may be hard to believe but I saw it with my own eyes."

To me, that's how unlikely and unfathomable it was that we beat Georgia on that day considering all the selfish drama of the season.

I think two often forgotten parts of the Georgia game were that Bowers and Mcconky were hurt and we got the lead off a bad handoff. Neither of those were Milroe's doing but too often Milroe defenders want to parade the game as him having this unreal performance against Georgia. He did well but had we gotten in a shootout vs them then I doubt we win. The defense really won that game.

 

[davefrat]

Two great posts, IMO.

PA's bullet points paint the picture as well as it can be understood, IMO. Conspiracy theories exist in place of a vacuum. You can choose to believe CNS was fully in control (which he wasn't and it's leaking out now that he wasn't - see post #79 by JD Crimson and many of '81's post) OR you can follow the events that happened and use your common sense. @davefrat CNS definitely said at some point that the team chose Jalen. I don't have the quote saved to offer proof but it was discussed at length on here!

So there's no question that last year there was probably more drama than in all the other years combined. It was the perfect storm of CNS's soft side and uncertainty of when to retire and the NIL/portal storm.

I've thought about it a lot and there's only one thing after the USF game that I think might have allowed this to play out better. Instead of CNS declaring Jalen as starter (this is when he said the team chose Jalen) if CNS would have been honest and said JM had been suspended and also if he would have declared they'd use to next couple of weeks to let JM, TS and TB duke it out in practices and games. But, as it occurred, with the team not trying in the USF gave and then JM being "given" the starting role back by the team choosing him, it just gave off a terrible look and feel for the season unfolding.

If JM would have simply dominated and played unbelievably those of us who have been labeled "anti-Jalen" would not have had a "leg to stand on" in regards to our objective pushback of his skills or lack thereof. But because he struggled and we were barely able to beat mid-level SEC teams AND because CTR had to dumb down the offense (call it what you want to call it but that's what we did - we simplified the offense so Jalen could hopefully run it better) it just left a very unsatisfied feeling that even if TS would have been a better option as the season went on that he would have never been given the opportunity because JM had been crowned as the favorite among the OL and the media played along to act as if he was the greatest thing since sliced bread even though the results on the field proved otherwise.

I’m a conspiracy theorist because I asked some questions?

Perhaps I’m misreading your post, but since I was called out specifically, I’m a bit confused.

 

[Ledsteplin]

Two great posts, IMO.

PA's bullet points paint the picture as well as it can be understood, IMO. Conspiracy theories exist in place of a vacuum. You can choose to believe CNS was fully in control (which he wasn't and it's leaking out now that he wasn't - see post #79 by JD Crimson and many of '81's post) OR you can follow the events that happened and use your common sense. @davefrat CNS definitely said at some point that the team chose Jalen. I don't have the quote saved to offer proof but it was discussed at length on here!

So there's no question that last year there was probably more drama than in all the other years combined. It was the perfect storm of CNS's soft side and uncertainty of when to retire and the NIL/portal storm.

I've thought about it a lot and there's only one thing after the USF game that I think might have allowed this to play out better. Instead of CNS declaring Jalen as starter (this is when he said the team chose Jalen) if CNS would have been honest and said JM had been suspended and also if he would have declared they'd use to next couple of weeks to let JM, TS and TB duke it out in practices and games. But, as it occurred, with the team not trying in the USF gave and then JM being "given" the starting role back by the team choosing him, it just gave off a terrible look and feel for the season unfolding.

If JM would have simply dominated and played unbelievably those of us who have been labeled "anti-Jalen" would not have had a "leg to stand on" in regards to our objective pushback of his skills or lack thereof. But because he struggled and we were barely able to beat mid-level SEC teams AND because CTR had to dumb down the offense (call it what you want to call it but that's what we did - we simplified the offense so Jalen could hopefully run it better) it just left a very unsatisfied feeling that even if TS would have been a better option as the season went on that he would have never been given the opportunity because JM had been crowned as the favorite among the OL and the media played along to act as if he was the greatest thing since sliced bread even though the results on the field proved otherwise.

I recall Saban didn't say that. It was a widely accepted assumption made by members here. He may have said something related, but I never saw a quote from CNS.

 

[81usaf92]

I’m a conspiracy theorist because I asked some questions?

Perhaps I’m misreading your post, but since I was called out specifically , I’m a bit confused.

I dont think that was his meaning. I think what he was saying is that just because there is no physical proof that openly exists then everyone who is saying things arent necessarily pot stirrers or conspiracy theorists.

I mean at the time of the Pruitt situation I was employed in a place in which I could be fired or lose major privileges if I revealed exactly who told me and how it was said that Alabama was not going to hire him in any capacity. Yet when I posted here there were several that wanted to run with the Dodd article and say I was just a Pruitt hater, look at the pictures of his truck, and you dont have physical proof. Just because someone doesnt want to reveal their source or there is a paper trail on the internet doesnt mean it cant or isnt true.

 

[davefrat]

I dont think that was his meaning. I think what he was saying is that just because there is no physical proof that openly exists then everyone who is saying things arent necessarily pot stirrers or conspiracy theorists.

I mean at the time of the Pruitt situation I was employed in a place in which I could be fired or lose major privileges if I revealed exactly who told me and how it was said that Alabama was not going to hire him in any capacity. Yet when I posted here there were several that wanted to run with the Dodd article and say I was just a Pruitt hater, look at the pictures of his truck, and you dont have physical proof. Just because someone doesnt want to reveal their source or there is a paper trail on the internet doesnt mean it cant or isnt true.

Perhaps...I hope so.

Seemed like I was getting personally called out.

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

Anyone who has ever put on shoulder pads knew what was going on that day.

We only beat Georgia and made the playoffs because of our defense. If Petey had been the DC last year, we would have probably finished barely above 500.

We beat Georgia because our defense played great and our offense steam-rolled their supposedly top-notch defense every time the Dawgs drew close. That included Milroe going 4 for 4 in the fourth quarter on the most important drive of the season.

We also built a 10-point lead in the first half with two great drives, including a terrific Milroe throw just before halftime to Burton.

That said, Milroe took way too many sacks in the game. But he directly contributed to three long touchdown drives and sealed the win with two dynamic runs. Criticize his mistakes, sure. The guy doesn't see the field. But give him credit for the plays he does make.

 

[CrimsonBloodn62]

We beat Georgia because our defense played great and our offense steam-rolled their supposedly top-notch defense every time the Dawgs drew close. That included Milroe going 4 for 4 in the fourth quarter on the most important drive of the season.

We also built a 10-point lead in the first half with two great drives, including a great Milroe throw just before halftime to Burton.

That said, Milroe took way too many sacks in the game. But he directly contributed to three long touchdown drives and sealed the win with two dynamic runs. Criticize his mistakes, sure. The guy doesn't see the field. But give him credit for the plays he does make.

Yea Milroe made some plays in the Georgia game, but if it hadn't been for the defense holding our opponents to less than 24/27 points throughout the year, Bama wouldn't even have made the SEC championship or playoffs. If this team repeats last year's offensive performance, I don't see us making it to Atlanta again in 2024.

 

[Ledsteplin]

Yea Milroe made some plays in the Georgia game, but if it hadn't been for the defense holding our opponents to less than 24/27 points throughout the year, Bama wouldn't even have made the SEC championship or playoffs. If this team repeats last year's offensive performance, I don't see us making it to Atlanta again in 2024.

It looks like they're doing great learning DeBoer's offense. CKD says they keep making progress, and believes they'll get there. From what I cantell, this offense should be much better than last year. It's just a matter of being fine tuned in time. They didn't do that bad last year after South Florida. Made it undefeated to the playoffs, and lost a close game to Michigan.

 

[92tide]

We beat Georgia because our defense played great and our offense steam-rolled their supposedly top-notch defense every time the Dawgs drew close. That included Milroe going 4 for 4 in the fourth quarter on the most important drive of the season.

We also built a 10-point lead in the first half with two great drives, including a terrific Milroe throw just before halftime to Burton.

That said, Milroe took way too many sacks in the game. But he directly contributed to three long touchdown drives and sealed the win with two dynamic runs. Criticize his mistakes, sure. The guy doesn't see the field. But give him credit for the plays he does make.

being a long-time georgia resident, that game was a thing of beauty by our o and d

 

[bamajas]

I think two often forgotten parts of the Georgia game were that Bowers and Mcconky were hurt and we got the lead off a bad handoff. Neither of those were Milroe's doing but too often Milroe defenders want to parade the game as him having this unreal performance against Georgia. He did well but had we gotten in a shootout vs them then I doubt we win. The defense really won that game.

The defense did their part, for sure

CKS using two spies instead of sending 6 or more like Michigan was a major factor, too. I'm betting he was as sick as any non-Bama person watching the Rose Bowl. Our OL did great vs UGA, but UGA helped make that possible

 

[92tide]

It looks like they're doing great learning DeBoer's offense. CKD says they keep making progress, and believes they'll get there. From what I cantell, this offense should be much better than last year. It's just a matter of being fine tuned in time. They didn't do that bad last year after South Florida. Made it undefeated to the playoffs, and lost a close game to Michigan.

i'm hoping the novelty of it helps us in the sec this year as we transition into a new coach

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

I recall Saban didn't say that. It was a widely accepted assumption made by members here. He may have said something related, but I never saw a quote from CNS.

He said the quarterback has to win the locker room, an expression he had used every time he’s had a QB competition. It has been contorted into something else.

 

[Ledsteplin]

He said the quarterback has to win the locker room, an expression he had used every time he’s had a QB competition. It has been contorted into something else.

But he never said the locker room said who to start. Big difference. These are his quotes from that time.


Saban after the South Florida game:
"We're going to evaluate the quarterbacks that played today and evaluate Jalen Milroe in terms of how he played and decide this week who gives us the best opportunity to be successful as an offensive team, and that's the way we'll go,"

"Thought [Simpson] did OK. He made a couple really good throws and we missed a couple big-play throws that we've been making some of those, but I thought he played well, managed the game well," Saban said. "We ran the ball quite a bit when he was in there. I don't think the sacks were necessarily his fault so we'll evaluate it when we watch the film."

Saban on why he started Milroe against Ole Miss:

"Jalen really showed the leadership that I was looking for during the game in terms of supporting his teammates and doing the things he needed to do," Saban said. "He's had the opportunity to play. So have the other guys. Jalen played the best of all those guys."

 

[deltatider]

First and foremost, I will support whoever Bama ends up starting at quarterback this season. That said, I will admit that I am all over the place with regards to my expectations when it comes to Bama's quarterback position going into the 2024 season. On one hand, I do think that Jalen has a skillset that can make him a very difficult guy to defend....and he did start all but 1 game last year in a season where we did make the playoffs and where we very much could (probably should) have beaten the Michigan team that went on the win it all. However, I think that 1) for as much talent as Jalen has, he also has some areas that he needs to show improvement in order to take full advantage of that skillset and 2) in my opinion that is a whole lot of context around last season's results....

I think Jalen is a good kid, I really do. I think he really does want to do the right things...I think he wants to be a leader, I think he has a very good work ethic, and I do think he has the best of intentions. That said, I also think he has some maturity issues that I think makes him come across as not very genuine at times...and that he might have a tendency to be a bit too emotional at times. The USF game is a good example....I don't know what went down during the week prior to that game, but I'm pretty sure I heard Greg McElroy say point blank that Jalen was suspended for that game. But my biggest concern for Jalen is that I'm not sure coaching will be able to fix his biggest weakness, which is how quickly he can process information and make decisions. I've heard it mention multiple times during broadcasts later in the year that Bama didn't run more RPO because Jalen was not comfortable running it...and that the RPOs we did run later in the year were all predetermined....That to me is the biggest concern with Jalen. If he can't process information quick enough to run a RPO game, then that nullifies his biggest weapon in my opinion. At the end of the day, Jalen's 2023 season reminded me a bit of a politician that likes to create a problem for the sole purpose of giving him a problem to resolve. Jalen got a lot of credit nationally for his performances in coming back and winning games, but at the same time it was his performance that put the team in the position they were in to have to come back and win games to begin with.

All that said, the fact that Ty was not able to separate himself from Jalen at any point during the offseason going into this year does have some cause for concern. But I also don't think either Jalen or Ty has had the best position coaches during their time at Bama...so provided that Ty is able to go his process information make his reads faster than Jalen, then I think that gives him a higher ceiling than Jalen considering the fact that both guys will have better coaching that in the past. However, if Ty has similar issues as Jalen with regards to how fast he can make his reads and process information; then Jalen's running ability will be the deciding factor that tips the scales in his favor.

 

[BamaMoon]

I’m a conspiracy theorist because I asked some questions?

Perhaps I’m misreading your post, but since I was called out specifically, I’m a bit confused.

No...it's what '81 said.

I was trying to convey "conspiracy theories" exist when there's no information to suggest something else happened. Because of the way the JM/USF benching and re-ascension after not playing occurred without CNS givining more info the "conspiracy" that the team laid down to protest for JM against USF sprouted wings. And, since there's never been a better explanation of what happened, it seems reasonable to believe.

I mentioned you because you've asked for proof of CNS saying "the team chose Jalen" (after USF). I don't know if CNS ever used those exact words, but the inference in the words he said is without doubt what he meant.

I suggested if CNS would have just come clean and explained JM had been suspended for behavioral issues and not allowed it to look like there was an open tryout for a new QB during the USF game it would have made a lot more sense. But, as it played out, it looked like JM was benched for his poor performance and that TB and TS where given an opportunity to win the job against USF. It looked like the team laid down in protest of JM not playing. The next Monday or Tuesday CNS announces JM is now the starter because the team chose him.

I love CNS. But he's not perfect and he bungled this situation IMO.

 

[Tidelines]

First and foremost, I will support whoever Bama ends up starting at quarterback this season. That said, I will admit that I am all over the place with regards to my expectations when it comes to Bama's quarterback position going into the 2024 season. On one hand, I do think that Jalen has a skillset that can make him a very difficult guy to defend....and he did start all but 1 game last year in a season where we did make the playoffs and where we very much could (probably should) have beaten the Michigan team that went on the win it all. However, I think that 1) for as much talent as Jalen has, he also has some areas that he needs to show improvement in order to take full advantage of that skillset and 2) in my opinion that is a whole lot of context around last season's results....

I think Jalen is a good kid, I really do. I think he really does want to do the right things...I think he wants to be a leader, I think he has a very good work ethic, and I do think he has the best of intentions. That said, I also think he has some maturity issues that I think makes him come across as not very genuine at times...and that he might have a tendency to be a bit too emotional at times. The USF game is a good example....I don't know what went down during the week prior to that game, but I'm pretty sure I heard Greg McElroy say point blank that Jalen was suspended for that game. But my biggest concern for Jalen is that I'm not sure coaching will be able to fix his biggest weakness, which is how quickly he can process information and make decisions. I've heard it mention multiple times during broadcasts later in the year that Bama didn't run more RPO because Jalen was not comfortable running it...and that the RPOs we did run later in the year were all predetermined....That to me is the biggest concern with Jalen. If he can't process information quick enough to run a RPO game, then that nullifies his biggest weapon in my opinion. At the end of the day, Jalen's 2023 season reminded me a bit of a politician that likes to create a problem for the sole purpose of giving him a problem to resolve. Jalen got a lot of credit nationally for his performances in coming back and winning games, but at the same time it was his performance that put the team in the position they were in to have to come back and win games to begin with.

All that said, the fact that Ty was not able to separate himself from Jalen at any point during the offseason going into this year does have some cause for concern. But I also don't think either Jalen or Ty has had the best position coaches during their time at Bama...so provided that Ty is able to go his process information make his reads faster than Jalen, then I think that gives him a higher ceiling than Jalen considering the fact that both guys will have better coaching that in the past. However, if Ty has similar issues as Jalen with regards to how fast he can make his reads and process information; then Jalen's running ability will be the deciding factor that tips the scales in his favor.

That's very well reasoned out and exactly how I feel.

 

[Toddrn]

I haven't read every post in this thread and I have no inside knowledge like some of you. But this is how I look at it. Most people mellow with age and CNS is no exception. Most likely this happened slowly over time without him realizing just how much. With NIL and the way players are coddled before they get to college he lost some control over this team and just didn't want to do what it would take to get it back. What I really hate is that he didn't go out the way he wanted to.

 

[BamaMoon]

They didn't do that bad last year after South Florida. Made it undefeated to the playoffs, and lost a close game to Michigan.

Do you remember what happened in the middle of the season? After struggling with mid-level SEC teams, the whole "Bama offense" had to be scrubbed for something much more basic.

That little CTR (obviously CNS approved) stunt is the only thing that saved the season. We won with smoke and mirrors, a whole lot of luck (4th and 31!), better athletes and good defense until we got to UM.