Bush to solve gas price problem!!

TexasTide

All-SEC
Jan 11, 2002
1,132
24
0
Navasota,Texas,USA
Psychopeach,

What the he!! are you talking about? I wrote a civil, well thought out post and you respond with a bunch of gibberish regarding things I never mentioned. I'm not sparring with anyone, although you may be.

Just because you served in the Navy has nothing to do with the fact that most Southerners place a high importance on God, Guns, and Kids. The Democrats neglecting of those 3 has created a more unified South. It has nothing to do with "good ole boy" Republicans as you suggested.

The fact that at one time you could not even vote Republican merely reinforces what I wrote concerning the Democrats alienating the South and that the Democratic party was the racist party. I know there were Republicans in the South, whether you could vote that way or not.

I never judged anybody and although I probably should, I don't really care if you're a Christian or not, and never once mentioned anything about what you do in your bedroom. However this too does not change the fact that religion is important to most Southerners and the Democrats infringing upon their expression of religion, whether real or perceived, has furthered the alienation of the South from the Democratic party.

It's not really been a 180 degree switch. At one time that may have been the case, or at least appeared so. The Republican party is in reality now the party of the common man, but unlike the old Democrats, racism is not a requirement. The Democrats try to give the perception they are for the common man but that is getting harder and harder for them to do. They are now the party of the elite and are becoming more and more Socialist, which the Republican party never was. Just look at the map of the areas that voted for Bush and tell me the Republican party is not the party of the average American.

I don't understand your incoherent comment about geography. I do know that most states were in their current locations before the 2 party system dominated American politics. It is impossible for a location of a particular state to cause such a change in party policies as we have witnessed. The parties changed, and that change brought about a change in voting among the Southern states. For a prime example look at the '94 congressional elections. That was a major turning point in Democrats losing control in the South.
 

fundytide

1st Team
Oct 22, 1999
661
0
0
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Pachy:

Is hyphenated?

fundy - I am not sure why you posted what you did, but you should have refrained.

You normally post thoughtful intelligent responses. Not sure of the reason for the departure. Please help us out here.


[This message has been edited by fundytide (edited 03-12-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ValuJet (edited 03-12-2004).]
 

fundytide

1st Team
Oct 22, 1999
661
0
0
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Valujet: It was really just a simple grammar question asked of an individual who I expected, for a variety of reasons, would know the answer.

Pachy:

I'm so glad you're willing to share your knowledge on the subject of OPEC history and operations.

I had foolishly thought that the economic theory that price is determined by the interaction of supply and demand in the market still held true. As you have indicated in your commentary, it appears that this is not true.

As for OPEC's history...

I was under the impression that the member countries of this cartel fixed oil prices indirectly by colluding among themselves to set output and export quotas which
raised market prices for the short run price inelastic commodity of oil in the 1970's. I thought this subsequently raised potential oil profits sufficiently to encourage other countries to develop oil production capacity, thereby increasing aggregate oil supply on the world market which caused price to fall and diminished the revenues, reserve share and accordingly, the macroeconomic influence of OPEC members on the world oil market. I naievely thought that the resultant loss of OPEC member oil revenues due to the price decline resulted in disagreement about quotas among OPEC members (a classic real world economic example of game theory) and subsequently, an abandonment of OPEC quotas in the early 1980's.

If I had known that it was a simple as a "bald raise in prices" or "jacking the price per barrel up" I wouldn't have wasted my time studying economics, that's for sure.

Just curious about one thing though; if non-OPEC countries control 60% of world oil, how exactly does OPEC "jack the price per barrel up", or is it jack-up the price of oil?

Anxiously awaiting a response at your earliest convenience.
 

Pachydermatous

All-American
Feb 21, 2000
2,151
15
0
Birmingham, AL, Jefferson
fundy ---

You apparently have been hitting the books. However, I have read accounts of earliest OPEC meetings in which the chairman simply announced the new price of crude. I can recall at the time being slightly miffed that a group of OPECers across the sea could determine what I would be paying henceforth for the price of gasoline.

Non-OPEC nations usually followed. It would be stupid to sell below the OPEC-set price.

OPEC has become considerably more sophisticated and PR conscious since. Early on they were an arrogant bunch of SOBs, as evidenced by that famous oil embargo. Now, back to the original argument: does it make any practical difference if one sets a price, or restricts production until that price is achieved??? There is one difference: the natives who pay the ultimate pump price are less restless.

Comeuppance --- Try Webster's New World College Dictionary. The word is an Americanism.
 

fundytide

1st Team
Oct 22, 1999
661
0
0
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
"Hitting the books?"

Uh, OK, but then that was in the late 1980's and the first half of the 1990's. Look, there's little in your argment that couldn't easily be debunked by someone with a first year university economics course.

If, as you claim, "It would be stupid to sell below the OPEC-set price.", perhaps you could help me understand how exactly non-OPEC countries were able to take market share from OPEC countries over the past two decades.

As for your question, "Now, back to the original argument: does it make any practical difference if one sets a price, or restricts production until that price is achieved???".

Since the former is impossible in the absence of true monopolistic conditions, yes, it does make a difference. It also makes a difference in that artificially high market price will encourage other firms to enter the market and offer oil at a lower price which will ultimately reduce the price of the commodity assuming no decline in demand. And that's exactly what has happened.

The high oil prices of the early 1970's encouraged Russia, Venezuela, Canada, Nigeria, Scotland and Norway to get into the oil production business and thus shift the oil market from one heavily influenced by a cartel (OPEC) to one that is closer to perfect competition. This is why the real market price of oil is lower today than it was in the early 1980's, as DBF correctly pointed out.

I mean, would it make any sense for OPEC to lower the price of oil over this period when they are drawing down their own supply of the commodity and demand is rising? If they simple "set the price", how did it begin falling (again, in real terms) in the first place and how were they not able to stop this from happening?
 

MegaVars

All-American
Nov 17, 2002
4,508
0
0
60
Warrior, AL.
Drudgin' up some old stuff.....2004 average price of gas at the pump $1.74/gal and this is the topic and threads......fast forward 8 years to 2012 average price at the pump $3.57/gal....and rarely a peep. Man, times have changed. :)
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
7
0
Prattville
I was here but was scared to talk to yall. But I finally said screw it. I still dont have anything to add, just random perversion.
I was (still am sometimes) the same way. I usually don't add anything great, but I just post anyway. Posting on the NS board has helped me get my sarcasm up. People are surprised at my jokes. Thanks you guys!
 

RVTIDER

Hall of Fame
Oct 29, 2004
5,759
0
0
58
Tuscaloosa, Al.
I was (still am sometimes) the same way. I usually don't add anything great, but I just post anyway. Posting on the NS board has helped me get my sarcasm up. People are surprised at my jokes. Thanks you guys!
Even sometimes when I try to post a serious thought either I dont express it right or someone makes a penis joke about it.:) So I just love to be here and go with the flow. Be hard to live without it now.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
33,183
27,864
337
49
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
I guess we have grown accustomed to getting nailed from behind by the gas pump...
I've come to the conclusion that no one in government, or not enough of them, are serious about getting us to independent status with regards to fuel. Here we are with an enormouse surplus of natural gas that we get from within our own borders and it seems no one in government is really that interested in seeing how we can benefit from it.
 

nx4bama

All-SEC
Apr 8, 2010
1,141
1
57
NW Alabama
Even sometimes when I try to post a serious thought either I dont express it right or someone makes a penis joke about it.:) So I just love to be here and go with the flow. Be hard to live without it now.
pun intended?????

sorry, couldn't resist..... :)
 

twofbyc

Hall of Fame
Oct 14, 2009
12,222
3,377
187
I've come to the conclusion that no one in government, or not enough of them, are serious about getting us to independent status with regards to fuel. Here we are with an enormouse surplus of natural gas that we get from within our own borders and it seems no one in government is really that interested in seeing how we can benefit from it.
Too much money from big oil to allow it to happen. Oh, you see the commercials by big oil about how we need to use our natural gas resources, but it's just that - talk. They have no interest in seeing it happen, because even though they control most of it, there's not enough profit in it.