Chris Low and Andy Staples on3 article - Early in KDB’s tenure, real concerns are surfacing in Tuscaloosa.

[CajunCrimson]

I remembered Norvell being mentioned. I chalked it up to media and him angling for better contract/protection at FSU and that he was never seriously considered. If he was then, well, that's not great.

The coaching talent has shrunk over the last 5-10 years. Not seeing the next Saban anywhere.

 

[TideEngineer08]

The coaching talent has shrunk over the last 5-10 years. Not seeing the next Saban anywhere.

You are absolutely right.

 

[BamaNation]

"Alabama is 5-5 in its last 10 games, and four of those losses have come against unranked teams. Saban won 100 games in a row against unranked opponents."

 

[CoolBreeze]

The coaching talent has shrunk over the last 5-10 years. Not seeing the next Saban anywhere.

There is no next Saban. We have been lucky to have two of the very best to ever do it so odds are we won't get another for quite a long time. What we need is a hard nosed coach that can recruit players and other coaches. I mean, we were destined to fall off a bit after Nick retired but this new coach has sped up that process exponentially.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The coaching talent has shrunk over the last 5-10 years. Not seeing the next Saban anywhere.

I don't know what the next "Saban" results will look like with the new landscape of college football. I highly doubt it's 6 NC's and 15 years of dominance. I still think the teams that are able to recruit, develop, and retain will be at the top. Money may get them there, but as this plays on, I think we're going to see that recruiting and development are still going to be pillars of championship teams.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

I don't know what the next "Saban" results will look like with the new landscape of college football. I highly doubt it's 6 NC's and 15 years of dominance. I still think the teams that are able to recruit, develop, and retain will be at the top. Money may get them there, but as this plays on, I think we're going to see that recruiting and development are still going to be pillars of championship teams.

If the game stays the way it is right now or especially if it devolves further there will never be a run like that again.

It’s easier to make the CFBP field now but that also means a team has to be ‘On’ for 3-4 straight games against Top 12 teams with no slip ups or catastrophic injuries to key players.

Not only did we win 6 NCs but we made the NCG 9 times in 13 seasons.

From ‘09-23 we were in the Postseason as a Semi Finalist or NCG participant 11 times in 15 seasons.

Nobody is going to get that far that often again.

 

[Cruloc]

If you want something a bit more ominous, there's this tidbit:"
" Byrne had DeBoer, and ironically enough, FSU coach Mike Norvell at the top of his list from the outset, and some will tell you the order was really Norvell and then DeBoer. Either way, they were the two Byrne wanted. "

That is basically how to make a candidate list based off of nothing but recency bias. I had both on my list, but Norvell was below Kiffin and DeBoer, closer to 10th than the top. That's an insane list if true, it's basically who won a bunch of games last season list, which is just... lazy.

Novell is 34–27 at FSU, was 38-15 at Memphis, if he was at the top of the list it says a lot about how bad the search process was. I hope that isn't true because it reeks of incompetence.

I wanted us to get Lanning from the get go. He's hard nosed and knows the grind of the SEC. But he's locked with all that Nike money at Oregon.

 

[lowend]

The coaching talent has shrunk over the last 5-10 years. Not seeing the next Saban anywhere.

Honestly, I think Saban's dominance has stymied an entire generation of coaches. Schools were trying so hard to keep up with Saban that they were firing decent coaches who never had a chance to turn into good/great coaches.

 

[lowend]

To me this was the big quote:
" You need to be able to coach Southern guys,” a coaches’ agent (not DeBoer’s) said. “They want to be coached hard. Look at the way [Georgia’s] Kirby Smart coaches."

This was my biggest concern with DeBoer from the start. Not that he can't coach, obviously he can. But can he coach these players? Can he compete in the SEC? It's not the same as the west coast. It's not the same as coaching 3 stars.

It's interesting to look at exactly who our players are. Heavy on the Bama boys (especially Northridge High, which isn't known for good football). Our next biggest source of players is California. Lots of players with what appears to be no emotional connection to our state or university.

 

[Cruloc]

I won't soon forget the Vandy loss, the Oklahoma loss or the Michigan loss.....where in all 3 we looked like we didn't want to be there, weren't prepared, had no answers for anything.

Then we go to FSU this season and not only do we look like we did in those 3 games.....we were completely unsound on the OL, the entire defense. Gap integrity was nonexistent. Two players on D going for one responsibility leaving massive holes.....two OL going for one guy, leaving another completely unblocked....the LT getting blown by constantly.

With a QB you hasn't been given an opportunity to get actual game experience, we never had a chance.

 

[KrAzY3]

I remembered Norvell being mentioned. I chalked it up to media and him angling for better contract/protection at FSU and that he was never seriously considered. If he was then, well, that's not great.

Yeah, I'd kind of hoped that the notion of him taking a shot at Lanning and missing was the true story, but while I've seen some posters mention that I've seen no corroboration. Every official narrative has been DeBoer was the first guy they went after. However, this is the most reputable source I've seen yet that indicated Norvell might have been at the top of the list as well and this honestly means the whole situation might be worse than I thought.

It took me a day or two to warm up to the Nate Oats hire, but once I did my homework I saw he was a good candidate. That caused me to respect Byrne's prowess, and even with the DeBoer hire I was hopeful it was just a situation where he couldn't get who he wanted most and DeBoer was an obvious alternative.

Norvell though? Until 2023 he was 18-16 at FSU. That's FSU! A strong program in fertile recruiting territory. The idea that Byrne could consider that desirable is both baffling and really bad news to me.

I wanted us to get Lanning from the get go. He's hard nosed and knows the grind of the SEC. But he's locked with all that Nike money at Oregon.

I've taken enough shots, I should try to post my list as best I can remember it. If I can throw stones, I might as well subject myself to scrutiny.

1: Kirby Smart - Obviously was never going to happen, but he was the one coach who could have instantly improved Alabama (if nothing else just via Georgia transfers and bringing coaches with him).
2: Dan Lanning- I'm not sure how hard a push was made to get him, if any, or if he could have been enticed. But I sure would have liked to see them try, he was an obvious fit.
3: Urban Meyer - Another long shot, but he's clearly the second best coach of his era. His 187-32 record came against real competition. The off-field type stuff is a giant red flag, but if you want to win and win now, he knows how to do it.
4: Sark - I'm not in love with the thought of him as a coach, but he knows offense and he knows to delegate. As long as Texas wants him he's not leaving though.
5: Dabo - I open myself up to criticism by bringing him up, but for at least a couple years I think he'd win a lot of games with the talent Alabama has. A bit of a Bobby Bowden situation as well, he's from 'Bama, played for 'Bama, so he might have dropped everything to come. He's won against SEC team's, but I'd be lying if I said there's no concerns.
6: Kiffin/DeBoer - I'm not even sure which I had ahead of the other and I think that changed at any given point. The plus for DeBoer is I think he's less volatile, the plus for Kiffin is his familiarity with the SEC. At this point I'd have Kiffin ahead, but to be fair it wasn't that obvious to me at the time.
8: Mike Norvell - I don't think I ever ranked him this high, in fact I think I only ranked him at all because he was on some lists. But, because that one good season he was on a lot of lists. He's 72-42 as a head coach, that's not the Alabama standard. The only plus is his familiary with the southeast, but to me he should have only been a consideration after a bunch of other coaches turned you down.
Should have been on the list:
Cignitti: I think he is actually who people thought DeBoer was. He brought James Madison to the FBS and then went 19-5 there (compared to DeBoer's 12-6 at Frenso St.). He then went to Indiana and without top tier NFL talent he goes 11-2. I can't blame anyone for overlooking him though, I did.

Anyway... TLDR is I don't see how you make a list and put Norvell and DeBoer at the top unless you're just lazy or don't know what you're doing.

 

[Cruloc]

Yeah, I'd kind of hoped that the notion of him taking a shot at Lanning and missing was the true story, but while I've seen some posters mention that I've seen no corroboration. Every official narrative has been DeBoer was the first guy they went after. However, this is the most reputable source I've seen yet that indicated Norvell might have been at the top of the list as well and this honestly means the whole situation might be worse than I thought.

It took me a day or two to warm up to the Nate Oats hire, but once I did my homework I saw he was a good candidate. That caused me to respect Byrne's prowess, and even with the DeBoer hire I was hopeful it was just a situation where he couldn't get who he wanted most and DeBoer was an obvious alternative.

Norvell though? Until 2023 he was 18-16 at FSU. That's FSU! A strong program in fertile recruiting territory. The idea that Byrne could consider that desirable is both baffling and really bad news to me.

I've taken enough shots, I should try to post my list as best I can remember it. If I can throw stones, I might as well subject myself to scrutiny.

1: Kirby Smart - Obviously was never going to happen, but he was the one coach who could have instantly improved Alabama (if nothing else just via Georgia transfers and bringing coaches with him).
2: Dan Lanning- I'm not sure how hard a push was made to get him, if any, or if he could have been enticed. But I sure would have liked to see them try, he was an obvious fit.
3: Urban Meyer - Another long shot, but he's clearly the second best coach of his era. His 187-32 record came against real competition. The off-field type stuff is a giant red flag, but if you want to win and win now, he knows how to do it.
4: Sark - I'm not in love with the thought of him as a coach, but he knows offense and he knows to delegate. As long as Texas wants him he's not leaving though.
5: Dabo - I open myself up to criticism by bringing him up, but for at least a couple years I think he'd win a lot of games with the talent Alabama has. A bit of a Bobby Bowden situation as well, he's from 'Bama, played for 'Bama, so he might have dropped everything to come. He's won against SEC team's, but I'd be lying if I said there's no concerns.
6: Kiffin/DeBoer - I'm not even sure which I had ahead of the other and I think that changed at any given point. The plus for DeBoer is I think he's less volatile, the plus for Kiffin is his familiarity with the SEC. At this point I'd have Kiffin ahead, but to be fair it wasn't that obvious to me at the time.
8: Mike Norvell - I don't think I ever ranked him this high, in fact I think I only ranked him at all because he was on some lists. But, because that one good season he was on a lot of lists. He's 72-42 as a head coach, that's not the Alabama standard. The only plus is his familiary with the southeast, but to me he should have only been a consideration after a bunch of other coaches turned you down.
Should have been on the list:
Cignitti: I think he is actually who people thought DeBoer was. He brought James Madison to the FBS and then went 19-5 there (compared to DeBoer's 12-6 at Frenso St.). He then went to Indiana and without top tier NFL talent he goes 11-2. I can't blame anyone for overlooking him though, I did.

Anyway... TLDR is I don't see how you make a list and put Norvell and DeBoer at the top unless you're just lazy or don't know what you're doing.

Lanning would have been the best fit for Alabama. Maybe not immediately after Saban though. DeBoer appears to be the sacrificial lamb for the guy following the legend. No one ever want to be that guy.

Not sure Byrne would have ever gone after Lanning though.

 

[bamajas]

DeBoer feels closer to Brian Kelly than Kirby Smart.

Sure, i was just using Kirby because the quote did. Compare him to anyone coaching now. Which other teams nation-wide looked as lethargic as we did on Saturday, win or lose? That's a fair question to ask, and one he's got to answer 11 more times

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I would be surprised if they weren't upset

 

[TDBama78]

I think Byrne and Debore should be joined at the hip, where one goes the other goes too.

 

[spidermayin]

Who's to say Lanning wouldn't have had the same struggles. Then we would be here thinking we should have hired Deboer instead of Lanning. Same for Norvell. He was coming off a 2-10 season. We would have thrown a fit if we hired Norvell.

The main thing we need to address is the lack of effort/intensity on defense.

 

[bamajas]

Who's to say Lanning wouldn't have had the same struggles. Then we would be here thinking we should have hired Deboer instead of Lanning. Same for Norvell. He was coming off a 2-10 season. We would have thrown a fit if we hired Norvell.

The main thing we need to address is the lack of effort/intensity on defense.

Not disagreeing with your premise, who knows. But the number of top-tier coaches whose teams ever play a single game like we did Sat is slim to none (and we've arguably played 4-5 of them in 14 games)

And Norvell's 2-win team was 2024, DeBoer's first at Bama. Norvell was coming off the undefeated regular season/getting left out of the playoffs

 

[AlexanderFan]

I wanted us to get Lanning from the get go. He's hard nosed and knows the grind of the SEC. But he's locked with all that Nike money at Oregon.

They will pry that job out of his cold, dead hands for sure.

he and Gundy got into a spat about nil and Lanning said, “we pay to win”.

 

[KrAzY3]

Who's to say Lanning wouldn't have had the same struggles. Then we would be here thinking we should have hired Deboer instead of Lanning. Same for Norvell. He was coming off a 2-10 season. We would have thrown a fit if we hired Norvell.

The main thing we need to address is the lack of effort/intensity on defense.

Well first, let's try to create a bit of a baseline. A lot of people when they talk about first year coaches tend to look at coaches who replace a fired coach. Well, if the previous coach got fired, then generally the program isn't in great shape.

So you want to look for a coach who left when there weren't any major problems, when the program was on a good footing. Three names come to mind.

Les Miles at LSU
Year 1: 11-2
Year 2: 11-2

Lincoln Riley at Oklahoma
Year 1: 12-2
Year 2: 12-2

Ryan Day at Ohio State
Year 1: 3-0
Year 2 13-1
Year 3: 7-1

So, we've established you don't even have to be that great a coach to walk into a good program in good condition and win right away. It would be perfectly reasonable to expect a good hire to reach the playoffs in year 1 for example, given the talent Alabama had. I didn't check, but I'm guessing Miles, Riley and Day didn't have a lot of losses to unranked teams because... well they didn't have a lot of losses at all.

That aside, I specifically complained about Norvell then and now. I think he was a bad candidate. My point was the AD might have gotten the entire list upside down in terms of who he went after.

But let's discuss Lanning because he's an interesting case. I also think he compared quite well to Riley and Day considering he's a head coach with a record of 36-6 who coached under both Saban and Smart.

This means he knew the SEC, he knew Saban's defense, he'd have recruited and dealt with many of the players on the team, this was a natural fit. This would have been close to a Ryan Day type situation. And you might say well how do we know it's not like DuBose? Well, I reiterate Lanning has already shown he can win at the power conference level.

So we don't know what would have happened, but we do know that a better fit than Les Miles or Lincoln Riley would also be better than 9-5.

I'm not even saying he could have landed Lanning though, but it was a no brainer to try. If you go after Lanning and Meyer and you're left deciding between Dabo/Kiffin/DeBoer I can justify settling on DeBoer. I can't justify landing on Norvell though, not unless all those other guys blew you off at least, so if that's where you started then it means the whole process is suspect.

 

[92tide]

DeBoer feels closer to Brian Kelly than Kirby Smart.

to give DeBoer his due, at least he didn’t kill a dude /s