Coach Saban Addressed UCF's "National Championship"

[selmaborntidefan]

Who cares about people complaining? Let them complain. Excellence should be rewarded, not mediocrity.

I don’t want a 2 or 3 loss national champion. College football has the best regular season in all of sports and it needs to matter.

but you're okay with a one-loss team or even a two-loss Ohio State getting into the playoffs ahead of UNDEFEATED UCF??

(I'm just trying to draw out what you're saying here and follow it - because it's right here that CFB fans become illogical).



Who was more deserving of the playoff? Two-loss Ohio State or undefeated UCF?

If you don't say UCF then your entire "the regular season matters" argument falls to the wayside. I don't disagree with you that two-loss Ohio St would be more deserving (which I assume is your position), but you can't then say you don't want two-loss national champions, either.

Besides, we've already had a two-loss champion in CFB (2007 LSU).

We've also had teams with a loss and a tie (1965 Alabama, 1990 Colorado).

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Can I get a link for this please sir?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[emoji208]

https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/scott-frost-on-ucfs-national-title-claim-the-national-champion-is-the-team-that-wins-the-playoff

 

[RedWave]

I really like the 4 team playoff. I think I could be convinced of a 6-8 team playoff depending on the setup but that's as far as I would go. Something like conference champs and a few "wild card" teams makes a lot of sense IMO.

I really wish it would go this way, actually. Then a team like UCF, if undefeated, could get in there and not have a reason to complain after they get their butts handed to them by real contenders. I don't think 6 would work though. I know they do something like this in the NFL, but for a couple of teams to basically get a 1st round bye would bring in more complainers about how not getting that week off hurt them (or in some cases, getting that week off hurt them more than playing would have). I used to be in favor of 6, but based on the crying I have already seen with the CFP system, I know bye weeks would get some groups triggered as well.

 

[81usaf92]

The only "real" issue with the NFL's playoff system is that when they went to all four-team divisions in 2002, they ensured this nonsense of 8-8 playoff teams would happen in a particularly mediocre division. This whole "I have a problem with 9-7 Super Bowl champions" is also overblown. Everyone dissed the 12-4 Baltimore Ravens, who went an entire month without scoring a touchdown, too.

Furthermore, the whole argument is talking out of both sides of the same mouth.

"The regular season should matter." Fine, then what's your problem with UCF? Shouldn't they have been in the playoffs?

"Oh, but they didn't play anybody."

So a poorer record is OKAY as long as you "play somebody"? Is THAT the argument?

The Giants played four playoff teams in the regular season and that was 3 of their losses - two were one-score games.

New England, who had the superior record (2nd best in the NFL), only played two playoff teams in the regular season. Oh, they were 0-2. And one of
those two teams was the NY Giants btw.

The Packers, with the NFL best 15-1 record, played the same number of playoff teams the Giants did but went 4-0.



But if you ever needed proof that you can't apply the argument......15-1 Green Bay only beat 9-7 New York by 3 points......and even that required Rodgers to take the Packers down in the final minute for a game-winning FG.


In other words, the gap between a one-loss Packers team and a seven-loss Giants team was......a last minute field goal.

You simply cannot argue that the regular season is supposed to matter and THEN exclude an UNDEFEATED TEAM with the dismissal "they didn't play anybody" and then ignore where that contradicts your argument. UCF had no business there in their sport, the Giants did in theirs. Anyone who had a problem with the Giants being there should have simply beaten them IF, in fact, they were the better team. The Giants - whom for the record I HATE - beat two of those three teams ON THE ROAD and both had a week of rest while the Giants played a wildcard game.


What's funny is this: the NFL and CFB are in many ways the exact same. The best team doesn't always win the championship but the best team DOES get the opportunity to try. This was CFB's biggest flaw back 20-30 years ago.

I think many college football fans believe that the NFL playoffs are like the MLB playoffs in which it’s better to be the hottest team than the team with the best record. While it’s somewhat true that many times a #6 seed in the NFL has upset a #3 seed it’s only happened 3 times that the #6 seed has advanced to the conference championship and only 2 have won it all. It really puts pressure on teams to do well in the regular season to get rest. In the MLB many #1 seeds pull pitchers when they know it’s in the bag in the last month while teams fighting for the wild card are basically playing playoff games their whole last month. Basically MLB is about rhythm

 

[RedWave]

No expansions necessary, imo. If you cannot make the top four you have no claim to being the best. But even if that's expanded to six teams, it should NEVER be mandatory that P5 champs get in. There could be years where three of the best teams in the country come from one P5 conference, and the Championship should be about the best team in there country, not winning a conference title.

It very nearly happened to us last year. I do think we were the best, but because of one bad game, many people thought we were undeserving of that playoff spot. The results proved them wrong, but what if we had come in at 5 and not gotten a chance to prove it? Yes, there is going to be bickering about 8 vs 9 or 10. But at that point, once well out of the top 4, I agree with you. If you can't get in the top 8, you definitely don't deserve to claim to be the best. But I would have a hard time arguing too much against, for example, a Buckeyes fan who thinks his team got screwed last year and should have had a shot. I think they should have gotten a shot, just like we did. 8 gets you there, with no bye game bias to consider. And I know UCF finished outside the top 8 in the final CFP poll, but I believe that if we were looking at an 8 team playoff, they would have likely found a 7 or 8 rank and a playoff bid.

All this said, I am not of the "everyone should get a trophy" mentality at all. I want the whiners to stop and the only way I can see to shut up the UCF's of the world is to give them the beating they claim to want.

 

[BamaHoosier]

https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/...al-champion-is-the-team-that-wins-the-playoff

However, Frost decided to fire back at Saban's comments here:

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...nal-titles-claimed-alabama-crimson-tide-legit

"'Alabama's probably has one or two national championships they claim that weren't necessarily recognized by everybody,' Frost told KETV."

Big difference though, all of ours were at least recognized by somebody, we only choose which ones we acknowledge the legitimacy of. At least none of ours were manufactured out of our imaginations as a marketing ploy.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

However, Frost decided to fire back at Saban's comments here:

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...nal-titles-claimed-alabama-crimson-tide-legit

"'Alabama's probably has one or two national championships they claim that weren't necessarily recognized by everybody,' Frost told KETV."

Big difference though, all of ours were at least recognized by somebody, we only choose which ones we acknowledge the legitimacy of. At least none of ours were manufactured out of our imaginations as a marketing ploy.

This is beyond petty and is the reason I am extremely surprised that Saban is still using good oxygen to address it. He needs to take some of his own advice and stop giving life to a subject by acknowledging it and talking about it. Ignore it and it will go away. Keep talking about it and it won't. Like the Pardon the Interruption crew said yesterday about this "You're ALABAMA for crying out loud! Who cares what UCF says?!". I tend to agree with them.

 

[B1GTide]

This is your statement:

"And there is a ton of parity. In college sports there is a huge gap between a 7 loss team and a 2 loss team. Not so in professional sports."

Are you not talking about teams in this statement?

Player parity - talent parity. The difference is night and day from college to professional sports in this regard. That is what I was talking about.

 

[BamaHoosier]

This is beyond petty and is the reason I am extremely surprised that Saban is still using good oxygen to address it. He needs to take some of his own advice and stop giving life to a subject by acknowledging it and talking about it. Ignore it and it will go away. Keep talking about it and it won't. Like the Pardon the Interruption crew said yesterday about this "You're ALABAMA for crying out loud! Who cares what UCF says?!". I tend to agree with them.

Agreed. A year from now UCF will be a forgotten blip on the radar. Let them milk it for all it's worth now, because that talk will become irrelevant the moment that toe meets leather on September 1st.

 

[B1GTide]

However, Frost decided to fire back at Saban's comments here:

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...nal-titles-claimed-alabama-crimson-tide-legit

"'Alabama's probably has one or two national championships they claim that weren't necessarily recognized by everybody,' Frost told KETV."

Big difference though, all of ours were at least recognized by somebody, we only choose which ones we acknowledge the legitimacy of. At least none of ours were manufactured out of our imaginations as a marketing ploy.

Two points -

First, Saban opened himself up to this when he made his comments. Even Alabama fans look sideways at the 1941 championship. So, while Saban has never personally claimed the 1941 championship is legit, he supports the "17 Championships", which amounts to the same thing. This opens the door for EVERYONE to criticism him. He should have just let it go.

Second, UCF also has a respected national poll recognizing them as championships - the Colley Matrix (used in the BCS formula). So, they didn't declare themselves national champions, as Saban claims. They are not "self proclaimed" national champions because of the Colley Matrix.

This fades away if every respected person in the sport stops talking about it. Saban is such a person.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

Too much was made about UCF beating Auburn. UCF had a lot to play for in that game and Auburn didn't. After beating #1 Georgia and #1 Alabama during the regular season Auburn thought it was their destiny to win it all, so they experienced a terrible shock in the SECCG when they were dominated by Georgia. Their season was basically over at that point. Then they had to play UCF in the very stadium where their championship hopes had just ended a month earlier, so they still had to have some negative thoughts about playing there again. Put Auburn in a game with UCF with a lot on the line for Auburn and I think Auburn wins.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

I have asked multiple times now for this site to stop giving it life, no one has listened. Instead, more threads pop up and it goes on for pages and pages.

 

[B1GTide]

By the way, when people like Scott or DK bring up Alabama's less legitimate championships, all that does is further delegitimize UCF's claim. After all, if Alabama should not be claiming championships only recognized by lesser polls, neither should UCF. That knife cuts both ways. That is why neither UCF nor Alabama fans should wield it.

 

[BamaHoosier]

Coach Saban Addressed UCF's "National Championship"

Two points -

First, Saban opened himself up to this when he made his comments. Even Alabama fans look sideways at the 1941 championship. So, while Saban has never personally claimed the 1941 championship is legit, he supports the "17 Championships", which amounts to the same thing. This opens the door for EVERYONE to criticism him. He should have just let it go.

Second, UCF also has a respected national poll recognizing them as championships - the Colley Matrix (used in the BCS formula). So, they didn't declare themselves national champions, as Saban claims. They are not "self proclaimed" national champions because of the Colley Matrix.

This fades away if every respected person in the sport stops talking about it. Saban is such a person.

I completely agree to both your first and last point.

To your second point, I couldn't disagree more. Their claim absolutely is a "self proclaimed" championship and I don't see how that can be argued. I realize there is fogginess surrounding our claimed championships. Heck, I've said before that only the AP and Coaches championships should be recognized, which removes '41 from the discussion all together. However, whether you're talking about '41, '73, or any other year that is considered "claimed," you are still referring to a timeframe where a process of declaring a champion wasn't clearly defined. At that point the term national champion was entirely media driven and almost anyone could declare their own champions. Therefore it was up to the school which sources you considered legitimate enough to recognize. It was a very fluid claim with a lot of gray area. The media was largely driven from the process within the BCS when their portion of the process was eliminated to only 1/3 of the decision. This however still left gray area., which we saw very clearly in '03. Then the era of the media having any say was resoundingly removed with the emergence of the playoffs.

Now the only ranking that matters is that of the college football playoff committee. Now even the illustrious AP and USA Today Coaches polls are worth little more than the paper they are printed on. So whether the Colley Matrix ranked UCF #1 or not no longer matters. This is the price of the playoff. (Which fans of teams like Boise and UCF were extremely vocal about moving to as they believed it gave their teams a better shot at a title.) You can't have it both ways. Yes we may claim an erroneous title or two, but that was part of the process of a different era. It's no longer a relevant methodology of declaring a champion which therefore makes their recognition of it "Self-proclaimed."

 

[B1GTide]

Now the only ranking that matters is that of the college football playoff committee. Even the illustrious AP and USA Today Coaches polls are worth little more than the paper they are printed on.

We will have to continue to disagree about this. If/When the AP poll votes someone else #1 after the playoffs have been played, they will be a legit national champion. Why? Because too large a percentage of the sports community sees a field of 4 to be too small, and because the AP has been doing this for a very long time.

Alabama proudly displays the AP championship trophies from the BCS and CFP eras. Why? Because it still matters.

Should the Colley Matrix matter? Of course not. But it still exists, and it declared UCF to be national champions. It would have been nice to see UCF ignore that, but they chose not to do so.

 

[81usaf92]

I have asked multiple times now for this site to stop giving it life, no one has listened. Instead, more threads pop up and it goes on for pages and pages.

It’s not as bad as the “I told you so” Lane Kiffin threads that popped up last year. But Lane has kinda killed those threads with a great season.

But the UCF thing would die if fans and coaches would just stop caring to comment an obsess over it. That’s why I’m kinda annoyed that CNS brought it up because everyone knew 1941 was going to be thrown right back at us

 

[BamaHoosier]

We will have to continue to disagree about this. If/When the AP poll votes someone else #1 after the playoffs have been played, they will be a legit national champion. Why? Because too large a percentage of the sports community sees a field of 4 to be too small, and because the AP has been doing this for a very long time.

Alabama proudly displays the AP championship trophies from the BCS and CFP eras. Why? Because it still matters.

Should the Colley Matrix matter? Of course not. But it still exists, and it declared UCF to be national champions. It would have been nice to see UCF ignore that, but they chose not to do so.

I'm absolutely fine agreeing to disagree. I like you too much to argue for the sake of arguing. Let ask you this though, whose banners are we hanging when a new championship banner goes up? Are we hanging banners based off of the AP vote or the BCS or CFP official ranking?

That question can be semantically confusing, so allow me to pose a hypothetical. We go undefeated and lose a heartbreaker in the semis. The 4th ranked team squeaks out an ugly win in the championship, but it's obvious that we were the best team. The official champion is that 4th ranked team but the AP still ranks us as #1. You really see us hanging a banner to commemorate that loss? If your team is not in the championship game, are you watching breathlessly hoping that both teams playing look bad enough that the AP names you national champions? That would never even cross my mind. Of course that will never happen because the AP doesn't want to compromise their legitimacy by voting against the system, but that goes to further prove their lack of worth in this day and age.

Like I mentioned, the AP was still 1/3 of the decision in the BCS era, so they did carry weight. That's why a team like USC can still claim 2003 even though they weren't a unanimous champion. They may still give out a trophy at the end of the year, but ask the coaching staff whether they'd win the playoffs, or be declared a champion by a media source and see which they'd rather have.

 

[B1GTide]

I'm absolutely fine agreeing to disagree. I like you too much to argue for the sake of arguing. Let ask you this though, whose banners are we hanging when a new championship banner goes up? Are we hanging banners based off of the AP vote or the BCS or CFP official ranking?

That question can be semantically confusing, so allow me to pose a hypothetical. We go undefeated and lose a heartbreaker in the semis. The 4th ranked team squeaks out an ugly win in the championship, but it's obvious that we were the best team. The official champion is that 4th ranked team but the AP still ranks us as #1. You really see us hanging a banner to commemorate that loss? If your team is not in the championship game, are you watching breathlessly hoping that both teams playing look bad enough that the AP names you national champions? That would never even cross my mind. Of course that will never happen because the AP doesn't want to compromise their legitimacy by voting against the system, but that goes to further prove their lack of worth in this day and age.

Like I mentioned, the AP was still 1/3 of the decision in the BCS era, so they did carry weight. That's why a team like USC can still claim 2003 even though they weren't a unanimous champion. They may still give out a trophy at the end of the year, but ask the coaching staff whether they'd win the playoffs, or be declared a champion by a media source and see which they'd rather have.

If Alabama is undefeated and fails to make the CFP for some reason. You go on to win your bowl game, finishing 14-0. Now, the 4th ranked team that made it into the playoffs wins the CFP, but they have one loss. The AP decides to award Alabama with their trophy.

Yes - you would hang a banner. So would every other program in America.

 

[BamaHoosier]

If Alabama is undefeated and fails to make the CFP for some reason. You go on to win your bowl game, finishing 14-0. Now, the 4th ranked team that made it into the playoffs wins the CFP, but they have one loss. The AP decides to award Alabama with their trophy.

Yes - you would hang a banner. So would every other program in America.

Fair enough. Hopefully we'll never know who's right here. However on the off chance that we find out, I'm willing to put a beer on me being right.

 

[crimsonaudio]

You simply cannot argue that the regular season is supposed to matter and THEN exclude an UNDEFEATED TEAM with the dismissal "they didn't play anybody" and then ignore where that contradicts your argument.

Of course you can, as long you don't try to compare apples and oranges.

In the NFL, the reality is most schedules are pretty dang comparable, because the teams are, generally speaking, pretty dang comparable. CFB is far different in that regard, and anyone with a brain knows that half (or more) of the SEC would have gone undefeated with UCF's schedule.

So yah, I can absolutely make the argument that they don't deserve to be there while making the argument that any playoff allowing a 9-7 team is a farce - two different situations...