The "I told you so crowd" didn't give up 18 sacks in the final two games, the OL did.ldlane said:
Commentary: Shula could soon find out how important Auburn is
- Thread starter JessN
- Start date
I said this before. It wasn't that we lost. I can deal with that.JessN said:
But, even yesterday, as I visted with some relatives who were Auburn fans...it was the way we lost that game (flat, unemotional to start the game) that still bothers me.
with all the excuses, which are very valid, i just can't get myself to believe that a coach that went 4-9 and 6-6 his first two seasons at alabama is going to get us to the promised land. look what spurrier inherited this year. you think he would have gone 10-15 if he were in shula's shoes? mark richt? bob stoops? houston nutt? guy morris?
"Peaking at midseason and then fading??....Don't you thing it could have something to do with:
(1) The "meat" on our schedule is the latter part of the season?
(2) Undermanned and lack of depth can cause weariness?
(3) Lack of depth (again) shows up more when players are nicked and bruised?
(4) Lack of depth (again) is impossible to overcome when key players are injured and out for the season?
Was is just a coincedance that our season faltered after 3 games last year, when we started having injuries that put us down to the 3rd string QB, 4th string RB and 3rd string TE?
Could it also just be coincedance it happened this year after losing our top playmaker and Center on offense?
Bama will have a full class of seniors in 2008 and that should be the year the evaluations of CMS start. We can't forget that the momentum the success that Tubs has had (while Bama was/is down) has also carried over into recruiting and will make it even tougher to beat them at full strength. I believe the success that CMS has shown with the undermanned and crippled teams he has had to field that he will get the job done.
I also believe that if the Bama Nation is not behind him it will make it that much harder. Recruits like programs that put off positive vibes (this includes from the fans). JMHO
(1) The "meat" on our schedule is the latter part of the season?
(2) Undermanned and lack of depth can cause weariness?
(3) Lack of depth (again) shows up more when players are nicked and bruised?
(4) Lack of depth (again) is impossible to overcome when key players are injured and out for the season?
Was is just a coincedance that our season faltered after 3 games last year, when we started having injuries that put us down to the 3rd string QB, 4th string RB and 3rd string TE?
Could it also just be coincedance it happened this year after losing our top playmaker and Center on offense?
Bama will have a full class of seniors in 2008 and that should be the year the evaluations of CMS start. We can't forget that the momentum the success that Tubs has had (while Bama was/is down) has also carried over into recruiting and will make it even tougher to beat them at full strength. I believe the success that CMS has shown with the undermanned and crippled teams he has had to field that he will get the job done.
I also believe that if the Bama Nation is not behind him it will make it that much harder. Recruits like programs that put off positive vibes (this includes from the fans). JMHO
You see it doesn't matter. This goes deeper than Wins and Losses. It is a problem that has grown out of proportion since the hiring of Coach Bryant and the coming of "The Family." Since the passing of Coach Bryant this small, elite group of former players, boosters and fans has poisoned football at Alabama for the common fan.HITIDE said:
Becoming a Coach at the University of Alabama is like trying to be ordained Pope. Coach Bryant was one of the Greatest Coaches at the University of Alabama and probably in the Nation, however he is not bigger than the University and Athletic program. We had no problem getting and keeping quality coaches before Coach Bryant, what is the problem now. The problem goes deeper and is the cause of many of our woes. This Oligarchy must die, before the program can live!
That's my Ten cents on the matter. Flame Away!
Yes, some of the problems could be a result of these things... however, it also could be a result of our game planning being "figured out" by our opponents by that time in the season. Also, just as we are nicked up, so are the defensive players we face. Problem is that this is not a "one-time thing." This has been occuring prior to this year, even when we had quality OL depth (03/04; although you can throw out last year due to backfield problems). Jess accurately points out that the trend has to be stopped one way or the other... if it doesn't, CMS will not be around to make that decision in a couple of years.
Your argument plays right to one of our other problems... creativity on offense and the ability to make adjustments to minimize your weaknesses. Bottom line is that Steve Spurrier used his offense creatively this year to get to 7 wins... had he displayed the same philosophy we have had over the past couple of years (no adjustments... just reduce the playbook), he would have been at 4 or less. BTW, our offensive woes were clearly shown before Closner went down... if you doubt it, go back and watch the MSU game BEFORE his injury. Also, it we ought to learn a lesson that (if what you're saying is correct) we have to be careful in using our front-line players any more than absolutely needed in a game (i.e. pull them when the game is no longer in doubt).
With these things said, I do believe that CMS can make vast improvements IF he will do a couple of things this offseason. One, either demand that CBC make changes in his OL philosophy or replace him (if he won't change). Two, demand that CCH do whatever it takes to improve as a WR coach (technique is as important at WR as it is on the OL). Three, either recruit a new OC rather than Dave Radar that has expertise in Shula's offense or demand that he do all that he can to become proficient enough that Shula is not on his own when it comes to the in-game playcalling. NOTE: In all of these things, Shula has a common problem... he has tried to fit square pegs into round holes. CBC's OL philosophy is not the philosophy of a pro-style offense... CCH is a DB coach (first time to ever coach receivers)... CDR ran a completely different offense when he was a HC and OC. Somehow or another, either those square pegs have to become round or he's got to recruit the right pegs for the holes.
"These are the same people that ran Coach Perkins (Handpicked by coach Bryant), and Curry out of the state. They continue to be the reason why many coaches don't want to coach at the U of A. The "I told you so crowd" is what is wrong with Football at the University of Alabama not the Offensive Line!"
The only coach since Bryant who was "run off" was Mike Dubose, who should have been fired long before he actually was. Lying to your boss gets you fired anywhere but the University of Alabama.
Coach Perkins took a higher paying job. Bill Curry was offered a contract extension and a raise, but UA was not going to match what Kensucky was offering him. UK made Bill Curry the highest paid college football coach in the country at the time. Gene Stallings retired, we know what happened to Dubose, and FRanchione left in the middle of the night, which is what he does. Mike Price, well it's all still fresh in our memories and he should have been fired.
And before you bring up "the brick" that is a myth. The media loves this stuff, it is an unfair and untrue reputation that UA chews up coaches and spits them out, and posts like this from Bama fans perpetuate it. Listen to Bill Curry talk, he brings up how great he was at Alabama every chance he gets, insinuates how horribly he was treated and perpetuates the myth. I've been alive long enough to remember he preached the same things at Kentucky, where he wanted to make Tim Couch an option quarterback, and he supposedly was getting death threats from Kentucky fans, who actually could care less about football. Bill Curry, the perpetual victim.
I get so aggravated with this board sometimes. People like JessN, who volunteer their time to give us an honest OPINION get ripped and bashed continuously on a personal level every time they state their opinion, and I think sometimes why do they even bother?
We do not have to agree all the time but why does it always degrade into this?
The only coach since Bryant who was "run off" was Mike Dubose, who should have been fired long before he actually was. Lying to your boss gets you fired anywhere but the University of Alabama.
Coach Perkins took a higher paying job. Bill Curry was offered a contract extension and a raise, but UA was not going to match what Kensucky was offering him. UK made Bill Curry the highest paid college football coach in the country at the time. Gene Stallings retired, we know what happened to Dubose, and FRanchione left in the middle of the night, which is what he does. Mike Price, well it's all still fresh in our memories and he should have been fired.
And before you bring up "the brick" that is a myth. The media loves this stuff, it is an unfair and untrue reputation that UA chews up coaches and spits them out, and posts like this from Bama fans perpetuate it. Listen to Bill Curry talk, he brings up how great he was at Alabama every chance he gets, insinuates how horribly he was treated and perpetuates the myth. I've been alive long enough to remember he preached the same things at Kentucky, where he wanted to make Tim Couch an option quarterback, and he supposedly was getting death threats from Kentucky fans, who actually could care less about football. Bill Curry, the perpetual victim.
I get so aggravated with this board sometimes. People like JessN, who volunteer their time to give us an honest OPINION get ripped and bashed continuously on a personal level every time they state their opinion, and I think sometimes why do they even bother?
We do not have to agree all the time but why does it always degrade into this?
GOSH - being extremely close to things makes me want to at least say something here: Idlane has a lot of things correct. I8au does too - Jess does, lots others are touching on parts of it - BUT - agreeing to disagree may well be a first step in "analyzing" why a game was lost or whatever. (Mainly because most fans don't REALLY know the REAL deal....) BUT: Just know that we as fans can play such a big role in the image of our program in this NEW & DIFFERENT age than the way things were back in the 60's & 70's...Things ARE different - & we need to remember that how we present what we agree or disagree with makes a DIFFERENCE. And we need to remember that how we respect/stand by our coaches & players publically makes a HUGE difference. I'm not kidding.
True. Very true. That is what bites me the most. Now we have broken down into two camps: Apologist and Realist. Which one is right? Ask an Apologist. Realistically, the preparation for the game left a lot to be desired as did the execution.TiderinMiss said:
Knowing who you are and the relationship you have with several important people at the University, I'm in full agreement with the gist of your post. However, it is because things are different that the "microscope mentality" is tougher today than it ever has been in the past. Today, we receive much more information and have much more hype regarding sports in general (i.e. the T.O. situation in PA). As a result, there will be greater criticism from the public sector. Criticism, however, does not automatically indicate a lack of support/respect for either coaches or players. Frankly, sometimes it is the only thing that puts pressure upon those (being criticized) to correct the problem (s) that exist. With that said, it is always wise to remember that criticism usually works best when it is couple with some positives.
What I am saying is that Jess is RIGHT! However, it is wrong that he is right. The Post Coach Bryant Era at Alabama has created this atmosphere of Terror for coaches. The small elite group of people that decide on Alabama's future has created the rules for keeping your job at Alabama:
1. You Got to beat Auburn, I don't care if your is 1 - 11 (See Rule 2).
2. You better win at least 10 games a year.
3. Run the program the way we want you to run it!
4. The Penalty is Firing.
Heaven forbid that you have to go to work on Monday morning and face a "happy" Auburn fan after the Iron Bowl.
This mentality has poisoned the program and some of the fan base. Our solution for a 9-2 season: Start Firing people!! That is ridiculous! It's not everyone and it isn't even many of the regulars on the board.
I respect the administration of this board alot! In fact, I recently saw a post from Terry (2004) that stated that, "We wouldn't feel the end of sanctions until the 2009 season." Oh no! What will we do? (Sarcasm)
1. You Got to beat Auburn, I don't care if your is 1 - 11 (See Rule 2).
2. You better win at least 10 games a year.
3. Run the program the way we want you to run it!
4. The Penalty is Firing.
Heaven forbid that you have to go to work on Monday morning and face a "happy" Auburn fan after the Iron Bowl.
This mentality has poisoned the program and some of the fan base. Our solution for a 9-2 season: Start Firing people!! That is ridiculous! It's not everyone and it isn't even many of the regulars on the board.
I respect the administration of this board alot! In fact, I recently saw a post from Terry (2004) that stated that, "We wouldn't feel the end of sanctions until the 2009 season." Oh no! What will we do? (Sarcasm)
RICH: I gotcha...& you're so right - the sprinkling in of those positives was exactly what I meant when I stated that the presentation of what we say is so very important...
IDLANE: I do know that the people in the postions to hire/fire don't subscribe to the attitude you're describing, thankfully...some of those who would like to think their pressure would influence those people exercise it often, & so do some fans' - but the actual ones doing the hiring/firing just plain don't think in those terms.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread - very very interesting. I so respect Jess' thoughts & IDLANE & several others who psoted here & other threads as well - I think it all boils down to what we all just CANNOT WAIT FOR: the day when we're once again on EQUAL playing terms - PERIOD!
IDLANE: I do know that the people in the postions to hire/fire don't subscribe to the attitude you're describing, thankfully...some of those who would like to think their pressure would influence those people exercise it often, & so do some fans' - but the actual ones doing the hiring/firing just plain don't think in those terms.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread - very very interesting. I so respect Jess' thoughts & IDLANE & several others who psoted here & other threads as well - I think it all boils down to what we all just CANNOT WAIT FOR: the day when we're once again on EQUAL playing terms - PERIOD!
"The question is, does Mike Shula know enough about that kind of born-in hatred to know that if he continues to lose to Auburn, he’ll be in danger of being out of a job no matter what else he does?"
I am a Bama fan , but this question is precisely what annoys me about the Bama nation. Yes, it was a flat game.(most importantly the defense in the first quarter against the best offense in the SEC) It was the most inopportune time for that to happen, but it did.
Fact is, the overall talent isn't there, and we won several games by the skin of our teeth this year. (same thing could have happend last year, but the luck went the other way). Our offense has sucked just as bad the whole second half of he season, but our defense played so flawlessly that it didn't make us lose games. The second that defense faltered a bit, Auburn jumped on top and there was no coming back.
For Bama fans to even be discussing Shula's job security at this point, especially in the media, is totally uncalled for and just plain stupid. Wake up people - we are coming out of a 'near death experience.' The fact that we won 9 games this year and won 2 of the big 4 is amazing. Also, Shula played in the Iron Bowl 4 years and has coached it three. I can assure you he understands what it means. NONE of this talk should come up until after 2007.
I am a Bama fan , but this question is precisely what annoys me about the Bama nation. Yes, it was a flat game.(most importantly the defense in the first quarter against the best offense in the SEC) It was the most inopportune time for that to happen, but it did.
Fact is, the overall talent isn't there, and we won several games by the skin of our teeth this year. (same thing could have happend last year, but the luck went the other way). Our offense has sucked just as bad the whole second half of he season, but our defense played so flawlessly that it didn't make us lose games. The second that defense faltered a bit, Auburn jumped on top and there was no coming back.
For Bama fans to even be discussing Shula's job security at this point, especially in the media, is totally uncalled for and just plain stupid. Wake up people - we are coming out of a 'near death experience.' The fact that we won 9 games this year and won 2 of the big 4 is amazing. Also, Shula played in the Iron Bowl 4 years and has coached it three. I can assure you he understands what it means. NONE of this talk should come up until after 2007.
RamJam,RamJam said:RICH: I gotcha...& you're so right - the sprinkling in of those positives was exactly what I meant when I stated that the presentation of what we say is so very important...
IDLANE: I do know that the people in the postions to hire/fire don't subscribe to the attitude you're describing, thankfully...some of those who would like to think their pressure would influence those people exercise it often, & so do some fans' - but the actual ones doing the hiring/firing just plain don't think in those terms.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread - very very interesting. I so respect Jess' thoughts & IDLANE & several others who psoted here & other threads as well - I think it all boils down to what we all just CANNOT WAIT FOR: the day when we're once again on EQUAL playing terms - PERIOD!
I hope your right and that I'm wrong!
OOooo ID - I wasn't saying you were wrong - just saying that the REAL inside-people who actually make those final decisions are not thinking in the terms of some of the fans, or of some of the power-people who THINK they will have a say-so, & so on.
Shula needs to grasp what's wrong wth the offense. If Bob Connelly is retained and the o-line regresses yet again next year, more people will question Shula's ability as a head coach. Next season will Shula still be stubborn and throw the ball on third and short 75% of the time? The running game will have tons of talent. Will he utilize it enough? He's had enough time to find better than average kickers too.
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