Concerning Diego Pavia( AKA Johnny Manzel II IMHO ), Is a Dedicated Spy Worth The Potential Reward Vs. The Risk?

[Bama Lee]

Wommack is Wommack. He runs a Sun Belt D and that won't change. Unless DeBoer forces changes....he won't.....we have the D that we have.

Vandy may rush for 300 yards and throw for 150. But if we can get up early on them, have intensity and focus and not play with our food, we should force them into some bad outcomes.

Forcing a turnover or two would be helpful too.

the interesting thing is the defense is #4 overall and #1 versus the pass. We already know the run defense is bad coming in at #14 (All of the rankings are just SEC numbers). The point per game though comes in at a respectable #7. Maybe the defense isn’t as bad as we perceive it to be

 

[tusks_n_raider]

Pavia hasn’t run his mouth about us this year that I’ve heard. That tells me we win by 2-3 scores.

He posted something on his IG that I can’t link because it’s too close to using a word that isn’t allowed here.

But he’s basically saying “Bring it ON” and has a shaking hands emoji.

So a bit respectful but expressing he’s looking forward to the competition.

If we don’t want to hear him talk smack we better beat them.

 

[mlh]

He's a brawler. A really fierce competitor. But he can't beat us if he's standing on the sideline with his helmet in his hands.

We just need to run our offense, eat some clock, be disciplined and not make stupid mistakes, and we'll be fine.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Revenge week ... Vandy.

Those words have never existed in the same sentence in the history of human communication. Make the world make sense.

 

[92tide]

looking back at last year’s schedule, their 40 points vs us was an anomaly

their o is far from some unstoppable force, and we gifted them an awful lot with our almost nonstop bed crapping during the game

 

[Bodhisattva]

looking back at last year’s schedule, their 40 points vs us was an anomaly

their o is far from some unstoppable force, and we gifted them an awful lot with our almost nonstop bed crapping during the game

I lost so much money to the "swear jar" that I had to make an ATM run. SMH.

 

[tidefan39817]

So, not a Vandy question/response, but with the overall sentiment of this thread being our defense is a liability once again, how do we get this fixed next year and do you think Deboer will actually pull the trigger on moving on from Womack? There are times last year the defense seemed to work but overall the scheme seems pitiful in both stopping the run and pressuring the QB. At the very least we need upgrades in linebacker and defensive line coaching. I’m also still not sold on the offensive line staff. Maybe we should give Sam pitman a call since he got the boot

I think Pittman would be a solid upgrade as an Oline Coach. I also agree on needing an upgrade in Dline Coaching. As far as getting it "fixed," the only way to do that is recruit and develop players. as others have discussed, the key to stopping an option offense is on the Dline. The line has to stop the dive play and the Lb's have to fill the right gap.

 

[arthurdawg]

I think Pittman would be a solid upgrade as an Oline Coach. I also agree on needing an upgrade in Dline Coaching. As far as getting it "fixed," the only way to do that is recruit and develop players. as others have discussed, the key to stopping an option offense is on the Dline. The line has to stop the dive play and the Lb's have to fill the right gap.

Our D-line has 5/8 of our two deep compromised... playing Hill, Fagia, and Simmons...

And our LBs have shown little discipline...

 

[Carollovestide]

If we play like we did against Jawga we will win hands down. I agree we will not be caught flat footed again. I'm not here to reopen old wounds about Milroe , but any game he struggled in resulted in the entire team going to hell . Ty Simpson is a BOSS and his leadership skills will make the difference in tough games this year. He's STEADY and god knows we need THAT !!! As far as that loser Manzel goes ....... should make great BB material !!!!! What a stupid stunt ...... last I checked he played for A@M . Is this supposed to scare us ????? Lol

 

[BamaInBham]

Or if the defense could have stopped anything.

The turnovers were bad...but we scored 35.

No way we should lose to a 4 foot tall QB running the option for Vandy if we score 35 points.

Milroe was terrible...the defense was "terribler".

There’s a lot of revisionist history being posted. Milroe was 18-24 310 yards in this game. He was the front runner or close for the Heisman. We are aware of his shortcomings - we hear the constant drumbeat. Some are not satisfied to be happy about and for Ty, but they feel compelled to to show their ignorance about the early ‘24 Milroe. It wasn’t until the UT game that his season began to unravel. Even then his LSU game was good-great and AU game was OK. The OU and Mich games were the disasters but OU wasn’t until the 10th game.

Why are we still constantly dealing with a player who is gone and distracting from his replacement’s great play with this ignorant and often malicious stuff?

 

[tusks_n_raider]

There’s a lot of revisionist history being posted. Milroe was 18-24 310 yards in this game. He was the front runner or close for the Heisman. We are aware of his shortcomings - we hear the constant drumbeat. Some are not satisfied to be happy about and for Ty, but they feel compelled to to show their ignorance about the early ‘24 Milroe. It wasn’t until the UT game that his season began to unravel. Even then his LSU game was good-great and AU game was OK. The OU and Mich games were the disasters but OU wasn’t until the 10th game.

Why are we still constantly dealing with a player who is gone and distracting from his replacement’s great play with this ignorant and often malicious stuff?

No there isn’t revisionist history going on in that particular post.

Milroe threw a Pick 6 and lost a fumble that led to a TD.

He straight gave Vandy 2 TDs on a silver platter.

That nullifies a lot of the yardage and his scoring.

He was a Turnover Machine from the Vandy game onward.

He threw 11 INTs and had 6 Lost fumbles and several more recovered fumbles.

He was a liability on the field.

He’ll get brought up when we play Tenn and OU too I’m sure to contrast the difference a player can make by not giving games away.

Ty has 13 TDs and 0 turnovers. If he continues that trend vs Vandy well we’re in a better position to win right there.

It’s worth highlighting. It’s notable.

 

[Carollovestide]

No there isn’t revisionist history going on in that particular post.

Milroe threw a Pick 6 and lost a fumble that led to a TD.

He straight gave Vandy 2 TDs on a silver platter.

That nullifies a lot of the yardage and his scoring.

He was a Turnover Machine from the Vandy game onward.

He threw 11 INTs and had 6 Lost fumbles and several more recovered fumbles.

He was a liability on the field.

He’ll get brought up when we play Tenn and OU too I’m sure to contrast the difference a player can make by not giving games away."

Ty has 13 TDs and 0 turnovers. If he continues that trend vs Vandy well we’re in a better position to win right there.

It’s worth highlighting. It’s notable.
[/QUOTE

No there isn’t revisionist history going on in that particular post.

Milroe threw a Pick 6 and lost a fumble that led to a TD.

He straight gave Vandy 2 TDs on a silver platter.

That nullifies a lot of the yardage and his scoring.

He was a Turnover Machine from the Vandy game onward.

He threw 11 INTs and had 6 Lost fumbles and several more recovered fumbles.

He was a liability on the field.

He’ll get brought up when we play Tenn and OU too I’m sure to contrast the difference a player can make by not giving games away.

Ty has 13 TDs and 0 turnovers. If he continues that trend vs Vandy well we’re in a better position to win right there.

It’s worth highlighting. It’s notable.

EXACTLY!!!!!!! That last game against Michigan ..... I know it was raining but holy cow ..... what a horrible performance.He had some great ones too , ya just never knew who you were going to get. As far as I'm concerned everyone around him from HS thru College did him a disservice by allowing him to be a QB . He would have made an AMAZING RB !!!!! Anyway ..... that's just what an old lady who loves Bama footbal thinks and I doubt anyone really cares !!!!! . Roll Tide !!!!!

 

[BhamToTexas]

We won’t take them for granted this year.
We are better at every single position.
We have a better QB (this year).
We are at home.
We are Alabama and they are Vandy.
We are going to crush them.

 

[BamaInBham]

No there isn’t revisionist history going on in that particular post.

Milroe threw a Pick 6 and lost a fumble that led to a TD.

He straight gave Vandy 2 TDs on a silver platter.

That nullifies a lot of the yardage and his scoring.

He was a Turnover Machine from the Vandy game onward.

He threw 11 INTs and had 6 Lost fumbles and several more recovered fumbles.

He was a liability on the field.

He’ll get brought up when we play Tenn and OU too I’m sure to contrast the difference a player can make by not giving games away.

Ty has 13 TDs and 0 turnovers. If he continues that trend vs Vandy well we’re in a better position to win right there.

It’s worth highlighting. It’s notable.

We completely disagree.

75% completion rate on 24 passes is outstanding. 310 yards on 24 passes is 13 ypa, again outstanding.

His 1 int was a well thrown ball that hit his receiver in a catchable position. It’s possible it was DPI. in any case it was a fluke that popped up in the air.

The fumble was not an automatic TD, Vandy has 53 yards to go. That is on the D. The fumble was as much on the RT as Jalen. He never saw the rusher. But the D had plenty of time to stop them.

So, yes it is revisionist to say that Jalen played a “terrible” game. 18-24 310. 35 pts, 1 int not on him, 1 fumble shared with RT.

The vitriol by some is palpable, IMO, it stinks up the board. You just feel the hatred, it’s unpleasant. I don’t even read half of the posts but it seems like some will never let it go. It seems there is more than football involved.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

We completely disagree.

75% completion rate on 24 passes is outstanding. 310 yards on 24 passes is 13 ypa, again outstanding.

His 1 int was a well thrown ball that hit his receiver in a catchable position. It’s possible it was DPI. in any case it was a fluke that popped up in the air.

The fumble was not an automatic TD, Vandy has 53 yards to go. That is on the D. The fumble was as much on the RT as Jalen. He never saw the rusher. But the D had plenty of time to stop them.

So, yes it is revisionist to say that Jalen played a “terrible” game. 18-24 310. 35 pts, 1 int not on him, 1 fumble shared with RT.

The vitriol by some is palpable, IMO, it stinks up the board. You just feel the hatred, it’s unpleasant. I don’t even read half of the posts but it seems like some will never let it go. It seems there is more than football involved.

Milroe was careless with the ball.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone try to justify a strong side sack fumble only being 50% on the QB.

Blind side maybe.

You still want your QB to be aware and have pocket presence and not just drop the ball on the ground for the other team.

Get rid of the ball into the stands or get hit but hold onto the FB.

I’m trying to keep my criticism about the FB play only.

But if anyone including myself has vitriol for the off the field stuff it’s warranted.

He was Machiavellian behind the scenes.

So you combine that with play that directly contributed to all 4 losses then yes there’s a lot of non warm fuzzy feelings.

I don’t want to get into the specifics again. Many people have and it gets hand waved away every time.

 

[Stonecoldtide]

He's Golding 2.0 to me.

I think your point is spot on. DeBoer and Grubb look more and more like they can develop an elite offense. While Womack looks like his ceiling is UAB level football. His schemes are the worst I have seen in 60 years of watching the Tide. Constantly gashed defending the run. Linebacker play is atrocious. D backs took bad angles against UGA. I hope DeBoer gets this and doesn’t let his friendship with Womack cost him his job…

 

[graydogg85]

So, not a Vandy question/response, but with the overall sentiment of this thread being our defense is a liability once again, how do we get this fixed next year and do you think Deboer will actually pull the trigger on moving on from Womack? There are times last year the defense seemed to work but overall the scheme seems pitiful in both stopping the run and pressuring the QB. At the very least we need upgrades in linebacker and defensive line coaching. I’m also still not sold on the offensive line staff. Maybe we should give Sam pitman a call since he got the boot

I’m not sure if everyone realizes this, but DeBoer’s approach to schemes and coordinators (historically speaking) is the same as Saban’s. It’s his offense, regardless of the coordinator (although the playcaller is allowed liberties and wrinkles), and he’s fully commited to the 4-2-5 swarm defense regardless of the coordinator. This is what he’s done everywhere else he’s been. So even if Wommack departs, we are running the same scheme. He would probably promote Chuck Morrell to DC if that happened, since Morrell was his DC at Washington. The scheme is what it is, and probably only leaves with DeBoer.

All that said, something like half of FBS teams base from the 4-2-5 including a number of SEC teams so it’s not some enigma of a scheme. We need better boundary and leverage integrity, and hopefully that can be addressed over time but at the end of the day this scheme, by design, concedes some rushing success in favor of trying to limit explosive passing plays. We are still running this scheme largely with Saban players recruited for his 3-4 Under / nickel base - and Saban’s scheme had started to show significant cracks and never fared all that well with elite mobile QBs itself (very few defenses do).

The best job I’ve ever seen a defense do against this type of QB was LSU against Johnny Manziel with Chavis as DC. They just blitzed him into oblivion, and had the personnel and execution to do it that particular day. It’s a risky proposition and probably wouldn’t work every time.

 

[arthurdawg]

I’m not sure if everyone realizes this, but DeBoer’s approach to schemes and coordinators (historically speaking) is the same as Saban’s. It’s his offense, regardless of the coordinator (although the playcaller is allowed liberties and wrinkles), and he’s fully commited to the 4-2-5 swarm defense regardless of the coordinator. This is what he’s done everywhere else he’s been. So even if Wommack departs, we are running the same scheme. He would probably promote Chuck Morrell to DC if that happened, since Morrell was his DC at Washington. The scheme is what it is, and probably only leaves with DeBoer.

All that said, something like half of FBS teams base from the 4-2-5 including a number of SEC teams so it’s not some enigma of a scheme. We need better boundary and leverage integrity, and hopefully that can be addressed over time but at the end of the day this scheme, by design, concedes some rushing success in favor of trying to limit explosive passing plays. We are still running this scheme largely with Saban players recruited for his 3-4 Under / nickel base - and Saban’s scheme had started to show significant cracks and never fared all that well with elite mobile QBs itself (very few defenses do).

The best job I’ve ever seen a defense do against this type of QB was LSU against Johnny Manziel with Chavis as DC. They just blitzed him into oblivion, and had the personnel and execution to do it that particular day. It’s a risky proposition and probably wouldn’t work every time.

It is an era ruled by offense. The rules and schemes favor that side of the ball now and we aren't going back to the heyday of Coach Saban's defenses and earlier. While we can all point the finger at Pete, and there were major issues under him, you aren't going to shut down teams all the time. We got torched more and more often after 2017 even with Coach Saban modifying his system over time.

I think we need to commit to rushing more people (seems like we rush 3 too much and get burned) and we need better LB play. Gap integrity was not good against Georgia and it will be evident if we don't step it up against Vandy. I suspect we will struggle against Vandy because 5/8 in our two deep at DL are dinged or out. We've got good young talent along the DL and OL that looks like it will work better with DeBoer's scheme, but it has to be developed and supplemented with good portal additions.

We also needed a more portal ready system where we could play more guys and they could be ready faster. We aren't going to be stockpiling 4/5* talent and having them spend two years learning the system before they hit the field! We've already played more guys in meaningful time than we ever did under CNS, and I think that will help retain more players.

 

[92tide]

We won’t take them for granted this year.
We are better at every single position.
We have a better QB (this year).
We are at home.
We are Alabama and they are Vandy.
We are going to crush them.

and we are (or at least seem to be) playing as a team

 

[Coach D]

I’m not sure if everyone realizes this, but DeBoer’s approach to schemes and coordinators (historically speaking) is the same as Saban’s. It’s his offense, regardless of the coordinator (although the playcaller is allowed liberties and wrinkles), and he’s fully commited to the 4-2-5 swarm defense regardless of the coordinator. This is what he’s done everywhere else he’s been. So even if Wommack departs, we are running the same scheme. He would probably promote Chuck Morrell to DC if that happened, since Morrell was his DC at Washington. The scheme is what it is, and probably only leaves with DeBoer.

All that said, something like half of FBS teams base from the 4-2-5 including a number of SEC teams so it’s not some enigma of a scheme. We need better boundary and leverage integrity, and hopefully that can be addressed over time but at the end of the day this scheme, by design, concedes some rushing success in favor of trying to limit explosive passing plays. We are still running this scheme largely with Saban players recruited for his 3-4 Under / nickel base - and Saban’s scheme had started to show significant cracks and never fared all that well with elite mobile QBs itself (very few defenses do).

The best job I’ve ever seen a defense do against this type of QB was LSU against Johnny Manziel with Chavis as DC. They just blitzed him into oblivion, and had the personnel and execution to do it that particular day. It’s a risky proposition and probably wouldn’t work every time.

It’s not the d scheme as in 4-2-5 it’s how he implements it and runs it. He does not do the best job so far (was going to say poor job but willing to give time) and often is out adjusted during games. The fact he lets his d get out leveraged/flanked pre snap is a sign of poor coaching at any level. Add in his actual position coaching has been poor then it gets worse. His play calling and tendencies were so limited and predictable last year teams knew exactly what was coming and even opponents said so. Has that been better this year, yes so far. He did well with running more zone against uga vs cover 1 and it worked but again he let his guys get out leveraged pre snap and more often than he should does not put the players in the best position to succeed. His pressures definitely leave a lot more to be desired.

With that said, Sabb has not helped himself either year as far as reading and reacting and made d look bad at times and other d last year as well and that seems mostly better this year so far. D line coaching is not helping either along with just not recruiting well there for years. The edge rushers on paper should be better but hard to judge other than they haven’t produced under him. Injuries stacking up this year don’t help. He is not a bad DC but is avg to decent but he is not the level that Bama has mostly had in a lifetime. Under CKD we might have to just adjust as a base mentally and know we might not have an elite DC here under CKD. Would I like a different DC yes, will he be decent enough to win a championship? I don’t think so unless it’s a 2020 type of offense.