Has Obama really been harmed by Rev. Wright?

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I would just like to hear your opinion about Obama. Does the point I made hold any water?

You say that Obama is confronting something before it comes a monster; my question would be, what is he confronting? Exactly what did he confront? He clings to the man who represents the antithesis of what he is saying. Does that not show at least a little hypocrisy?
BTiP, I guess I see a clear distinction between confronting an issue that you see is wrong and dealing with it now, and continuing to perpetuate a lie, and ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

In Obama's case, are you expecting him to reject and cast out a man who he sees as almost a father figure/family? I object to a lot of racist and otherwise awful things people in my family are know for saying, but I don't disown them for their own failings.
 
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jthomas666

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This is idiotic. First of all, the views of an "incredible" conservative are not even close to being as dangerous as Wright's. Wright's training a generation--including Obama's children--and teaching them that the government invented HIV to kill black people. He also thinks that Obama being black somehow qualifies him to be President over a white person.
You want to talk idiotic? You claim that Wright's comments are worse than those of my former pastor--and you don't even know what my former pastor said! You are one blissful individual.
 
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BamaNation

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This guy will not be Swift-boated without a damn good fistfight. In that respect, I say: bully for him.
Since you brought it up...;)

Does "Swift-boating" mean exposing ugly truths about a candidate's past that he/she has kept hidden for many years? In that case, I'm all for swift boating - on both sides of the aisle.

If those 'ugly truths' result from partisan fabrications, should we call those "Rather-izations"?

Obama seems to be doing the same thing that Kerry did: blame the messenger instead of explaining the cause of the message.


Even taking as truth these things, I would still put going to a church for 20 years where the preacher preaches hate against "Whitey" and "USKKKA" and gives out lifetime achievement awards to Louis F. at the top of the most despicable list.

I like Obama a lot - even though I disagree w/his policy positions on almost every issue. However, I'm having a REALLY REALLY hard time reconciling his actions and his rhetoric.
 
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92tide

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Obama seems to be doing the same thing that Kerry did: blame the messenger instead of explaining the cause of the message.
did you read/listen to the speech? he is actually trying to address the underlying issues. he is not blaming the messenger at all, he explicitly explained the cause of the message.

guilt by association is a pretty weak foundation, but unfortunately it is very hard to respond to. i give obama alot of props for actually trying to discuss this as an adult rather than running from it. unfortunately, this involves explaining things in more than one simple sentence, and that simply doesn't fly in our country today.

Even taking as truth these things, I would still put going to a church for 20 years where the preacher preaches hate against "Whitey" and "USKKKA" and gives out lifetime achievement awards to Louis F. at the top of the most despicable list.
and now the even more absurd guilt by association. obama = wright = farrakahn. speaking of despicable.

obama is a sort of scary black man, but he knows some really scary black men, who know some even more scary black men.
 
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I

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If those 'ugly truths' result from partisan fabrications, should we call those "Rather-izations"?
The problem I have with a "Rather-ization" is that when the media immediately drops a hot potato because someone else in the media screwed it up.

Notice that the valid issue (Bush's NG service records) was never the issue anymore. Only the media screwed up the reporting. The original issue was never addressed properly.

And, yes, it is valid to label Rev-gate as a Swift Boat attempt. This stuff has been out there in public knowledge for over a year, but, curiously, it only comes to light now? I wonder why that is?
 
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BamaNation

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did you read/listen to the speech? he is actually trying to address the underlying issues. he is not blaming the messenger at all, he explicitly explained the cause of the message.

guilt by association is a pretty weak foundation, but unfortunately it is very hard to respond to. i give obama alot of props for actually trying to discuss this as an adult rather than running from it. unfortunately, this involves explaining things in more than one simple sentence, and that simply doesn't fly in our country today.
Yep...and read transcript multiple times. It's an awesome speech, but misses the point on so many levels....for instance:

Barak Obama said:
...And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way.

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

Let's take out RevWright's name and insert your favorite racist group (like the KKK) or terrorist group (like Hamas) that probably has done some 'good' things as well. Does that excuse their hate?

How many people would be making excuses if we took out the words "African-American" and "Black" and instead substituted "White" or "Hispanic" or "Asian"?

Obama threw his own grandmother under the bus in trying to explain away Wright's comments.

I want him to just stand up and say "These are stupid statements. There are no excuses -NONE - for any of this being said. It doesn't matter that 400 years ago slaves were brought to this country. I went to Harvard, my wife went to Princeton, I'm a US Senator, and a strong candidate for President. My LIFE is an example of the fact that what Rev Wright is saying makes no sense and is talk from a hater, a racist, and I will have nothing more to do with him. I should have expelled myself and my family from his congregation 19 years and 364 days ago and I'm sad that I didn't. I want to be a president for ALL americans and not just these inner city black folk who hate whitey"

If he had said that, I think he would have won 65-35 in the general election. Heck, I may have even voted for him. As it is, this blackwashing of these stupid statements probably cost him even the DNC nomination.

Again, his rhetoric and his actions are crossways against each other, and that's a terrible position to be in as a politician before you're elected, especially.
 

BamaNation

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And, yes, it is valid to label Rev-gate as a Swift Boat attempt. This stuff has been out there in public knowledge for over a year, but, curiously, it only comes to light now? I wonder why that is?
Because Hill/Bill made it so in desperation. I remember Hannity & Colmes covering this last year but the rest of the media didn't bite then b/c he wasn't the lead candidate. Now that their favorite girl is behind, they're more willing to cover it.

So, if I get you straight, swift-boating is the LATE coverage of factual past events?

Wouldn't you rather these things actually come out BEFORE a candidate is elected??? I don't understand the logic in not wanting these things discussed.

You're also correct in your GWB NG experience analysis. However, if one makes up stuff and knowingly reports lies, then that makes the whole topic less credible. Also, isn't the difference in this that almost everyone involved said GWB didn't get any preferential treatment except for the guy who forged the documents and int John F. Kerry's case, his entire squad who was with him during the whole time came out against him???


Until and unless we start holding our politicians to higher standards we'll keep on getting what we've always gotten!
 
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Tide n True

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Big difference between having advisers in your administration and the preacher at your church.
You're exactly right! You can tell an adviser to kindly eff-off if you don't agree with him. It's much harder to say that to a pastor. I would say the pastor carries more weight.

You want to talk idiotic? You claim that Wright's comments are worse than those of my former pastor--and you don't even know what my former pastor said! You are one blissful individual.
You referred to your pastor as incredibly conservative. If your pastor made hateful, bigoted, or similar remarks, I would hope you would refer to him as a bigot, etc. instead of an "incredible conservative." Surely you're not so [warning: Liberal buzzword] close-minded or [warning: Another Liberal buzzword] intolerant that you believe incredibly conservative thought requires those types of ideals. So, going by what you stated, I can easily say that Wright's comments were more dangerous.

Either way Josh, if your pastor did make those types of comments and you did not immediately go seek another church headed by a more loving man, you're no better than your former pastor.
 
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Because Hill/Bill made it so in desperation. I remember Hannity & Colmes covering this last year but the rest of the media didn't bite then b/c he wasn't the lead candidate. Now that their favorite girl is behind, they're more willing to cover it.

So, if I get you straight, swift-boating is the LATE coverage of factual past events?

Wouldn't you rather these things actually come out BEFORE a candidate is elected??? I don't understand the logic in not wanting these things discussed.

You're also correct in your GWB NG experience analysis. However, if one makes up stuff and knowingly reports lies, then that makes the whole topic less credible. Also, isn't the difference in this that almost everyone involved said GWB didn't get any preferential treatment except for the guy who forged the documents and int John F. Kerry's case, his entire squad who was with him during the whole time came out against him???


Until and unless we start holding our politicians to higher standards we'll keep on getting what we've always gotten!
I understand your points.

However, many times silence equals a tacit acceptance. Making an issue out of it now seems a little odd to me.

I continue to posit that Kerry should have responded to the Swift Boat charges immediately. Yet he continued to let the media frame him......playing on his windsurf board, not being able to differentiate himself from Bush. He was his own worse enemy.
 

92tide

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I should have expelled myself and my family from his congregation 19 years and 364 days ago and I'm sad that I didn't. I want to be a president for ALL americans and not just these inner city black folk who hate whitey"
FWIW, the you tube moments were mostly in 2007 and covered maybe 10 minutes of a 30 year career. yet those 10 minutes are being repeated ad nauseum as if they define the entire 30 years.

he has never said or implied that he only wants to be president to the ICBFWHW, quite the opposite.

as to the other stuff.

he is explaining, not excusing. there is a difference. in the part of the speech you didn't quote, he says he does not excuse the rev.s nasty statements.
 
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FWIW, the you tube moments were mostly in 2007 and covered maybe 10 minutes of a 30 year career. yet those 10 minutes are being repeated ad nauseum as if they define the entire 30 years.

he has never said or implied that he only wants to be president to the ICBFWHW, quite the opposite.

as to the other stuff.

he is explaining, not excusing. there is a difference. in the part of the speech you didn't quote, he says he does not excuse the rev.s nasty statements.

My Mom and Dad have made some pretty awful comments about blacks, jews and other ethnic groups over the years. I guess if I run for office, I've got to tell them, "Hey Mom and Dad, I love you, but I can't be your son anymore because of all that stuff you've said over the years."
 

BamaNation

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FWIW, the you tube moments were mostly in 2007 and covered maybe 10 minutes of a 30 year career. yet those 10 minutes are being repeated ad nauseum as if they define the entire 30 years.

he has never said or implied that he only wants to be president to the ICBFWHW, quite the opposite.

as to the other stuff.

he is explaining, not excusing. there is a difference. in the part of the speech you didn't quote, he says he does not excuse the rev.s nasty statements.


If you want to know what I really think Obama was thinking, here it is:

"Hey there's a huge black church with nearly 10,000 congregants who are a lot like the folks I've been organizing. I bet if I get in real good with that Pastor Wright, those black folks will like me and it will seem like I'm one of them instead of the highly educated man that I really am. Since I wanna run for local and then state wide office pretty soon, these black folks, who are my target demographic, will be pretty useful to me in those campaigns. So what that the preacher is a racist. I'll just show up every once in while to make it look like I'm in good with Pastor Wright and nobody will be the wiser. Surely white folks won't think me being at church is a bad thing. Even if Pastor Wright says some of those crazy things he's known for preaching, so what. I don't believe those things (even if my wife does). Nobody gonna rat me out cause they think I'm one of them."

and there you go...
 

92tide

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If you want to know what I really think Obama was thinking, here it is:
im glad you're able to tell me what obama is thinking. ;)

now that i have the proper frame from which to judge him, i will dutifully fall in line ;)
 

BamaNation

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My Mom and Dad have made some pretty awful comments about blacks, jews and other ethnic groups over the years. I guess if I run for office, I've got to tell them, "Hey Mom and Dad, I love you, but I can't be your son anymore because of all that stuff you've said over the years."
Many of us might be able to say the same thing. The HUGE difference is you don't have a choice who your parents/grandparents/kids are or any real control over their actions or words. HOWEVER, you do have a choice of who your preacher is and which church pew you put your rear-end in!
 

92tide

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Many of us might be able to say the same thing. The HUGE difference is you don't have a choice who your parents/grandparents/kids are or any real control over their actions or words. HOWEVER, you do have a choice of who your preacher is and which church pew you put your rear-end in!
i think we should institute a test for presidential office to ensure that all candidates went to an acceptable church
 

BamaNation

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im glad you're able to tell me what obama is thinking. ;)

now that i have the proper frame from which to judge him, i will dutifully fall in line ;)
Good... Actually , I kind of want to believe what I said he's thinking. I'm just trying to explain what I think Obama was thinking about what black folks think since he tried to explain away what 'black folks' are doing on Sunday mornings "across America" as being something based on the experiences of their ancestors.

i think we should institute a test for presidential office to ensure that all candidates went to an acceptable church
Nah. That's a red herring. Just don't try to tell me after going to a church for 20 years that you didn't believe anything the preacher was saying.

:)
 

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