Housing, rent control, etc. thread

[Bodhisattva]

With a socialist now the mayor of NYC and promising more rent control, it will be interesting to see if that happens. Of course, NY already has rent control and is just leads to housing shortages, poor quality, and higher prices. Oddly, the rent control favors those with more money and hurts low income people. Funny how supposed compassionate socialism works.

I've written many times from first hand experience how "affordable" housing schemes actually raise prices. And it's not hard at all to understand why. Yet we never learn. Stossel's interview with a socialist city council member is hilarious. This woman has no idea what she is doing. She has no answers, but she'll forge on harming her constituents anyway. It's the politician's way. We never learn.

 

[Bodhisattva]

People get what they deserve. And when the more intelligent people get tired of being punished by other people's stupidity, they'll move to areas of the country that better reward good decision-making.

 

[mdb-tpet]

Austria has some interesting models to look at. If we can get out of the hamster wheel cost of living increases that start at ever increasing rent prices, we'll be on a much better path as a nation.

The social housing secret: how Vienna became the world’s most livable city

In the Austrian capital, renters pay a third of what their counterparts do in London, Paris or Dublin. How is it possible?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bodhisattva]

My wife and I have a nice collection of residential and commercial rental properties. The rent is what the market will bear, and it fluctuates depending on supply/demand. The rent for many of our properties is lower now than what we could get a couple of years ago because the high demand post-Covid lead to a supply boom, which lowered prices in these areas. The properties we bought pre-Covid saw a spike in rent, but we knew it wouldn't last. The market does a far better job than a political hack of determining what to build and where to build to satisfy consumer demand, and at what price to attract the desired tenant.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Austria has some interesting models to look at. If we can get out of the hamster wheel cost of living increases that start at ever increasing rent prices, we'll be on a much better path as a nation.

The social housing secret: how Vienna became the world’s most livable city

In the Austrian capital, renters pay a third of what their counterparts do in London, Paris or Dublin. How is it possible?

www.theguardian.com

I don't know anything about the Vienna housing scene other than what's in this article, but I take issue with a few things. This is subsidized housing, and while I prefer this over the government telling a private landlord that they must rent at lower than market rates, the rent the tenant is paying is only part of the real cost. Taxpayers are bearing the difference. I'm not a fan of subsidies and cost shifting.

But the reality doesn’t always live up to the ideal, and Barnerth is even more animated when complaining about the time it takes the city to carry out repairs in his estate. The light by the stairs leading to the basement hasn’t been working for three weeks, and when a door lock breaks, the residents usually don’t bother waiting for central management to fix it. “If you don’t sort a handyman to repair the lock overnight, the junkies try to break in,” he says. One of the downsides of having a single large company, Wiener Wohnen, in charge of managing and maintaining so much housing stock in the city is that logging and commissioning caretakers’ tasks can lead to bottlenecks.

When there's an issue with my rental properties, I have to address it quickly. Alienating a good tenant in a competitive market is not part of a good business plan when lease renewal time comes around. Take away these competitive forces, and repairs can lag indefinitely.

The other downside of the Vienna model is that while 60% of the city’s residents have hit the jackpot by getting into a Gemeindebau or subsidised co-op, that still excludes a large chunk of the population of a city in which 80% are renters. Only those who have resided permanently in Vienna for two years can apply for social housing, and those who stay in private rentals face problems more familiar from other European cities.

I'd rather rent to a good tenant, not to one that got lucky. If I'm a tenant, I'd rather get housing based on my merit than leaving it to chance.

... deregulation in the mid-90s, which allowed landlords to charge tenants not just for size and equipment standards, but also for location, often leading to arbitrary mark-ups.

This is an interesting interpretation. It should not be surprising at all that rent will vary based on unit size, updated furnishing, amenities, and location. Location is obviously a major driver. There's nothing arbitrary about it. I can't arbitrarily raise rent. If I do, no one would rent from me. I set the rent at what the market will bear. Actually, if the tenant is good, I will keep the rent on the low end of the market range to encourage them to stay longer. I'll forgo a little bit monthly in return for a tenant that pays timely, doesn't bother the neighbors, and takes care of the property. And there will be less turnover and down time, which is lost rent.

 

[75thru79]

With a socialist now the mayor of NYC and promising more rent control, it will be interesting to see if that happens. Of course, NY already has rent control and is just leads to housing shortages, poor quality, and higher prices. Oddly, the rent control favors those with more money and hurts low income people. Funny how supposed compassionate socialism works.

Rent "Control" in NY is a joke. It is not really means tested so there are tons of middle class people living in subsidized housing. It's current state is nothing like what the intent was when it was created. Getting a rent controlled apartment is like winning the lottery. You're benefitting off the backs of all the people who are "forced" to live in a market rate apartment.

The crazy thing is everyone in NY thinks it's a joke, completely unfair, but they hold out hope that one day they may be able to snag one. The mindset is like Powerball. They should kick out all the middle class and re-distribute the apartments to truly needy people. That'll never happen because it's a huge political football. It's almost sacred to average NY'ers.

 

[Bama_N_Va]

The same applies to health insurance related items. I thought it VERY interesting that my FIRST pair of hearing aids was exactly the cost of my insurance deductible....$4000!!!!

 

[Bodhisattva]

Rent "Control" in NY is a joke. It is not really means tested so there are tons of middle class people living in subsidized housing. It's current state is nothing like what the intent was when it was created. Getting a rent controlled apartment is like winning the lottery. You're benefitting off the backs of all the people who are "forced" to live in a market rate apartment.

The crazy thing is everyone in NY thinks it's a joke, completely unfair, but they hold out hope that one day they may be able to snag one. The mindset is like Powerball. They should kick out all the middle class and re-distribute the apartments to truly needy people. That'll never happen because it's a huge political football. It's almost sacred to average NY'ers.

Yep. The Reason video I posted upthread discusses how wealthier tenants benefit from rent-controlled apartments. It's dumb policy made extra-dumb by how it is applied. The lucky tenant benefits to the detriment of the unlucky (poorer) tenant, the landlord, and the taxpayer. But, populism works, and so it goes.

 

[Huckleberry]

Rent "Control" in NY is a joke. It is not really means tested so there are tons of middle class people living in subsidized housing. It's current state is nothing like what the intent was when it was created. Getting a rent controlled apartment is like winning the lottery. You're benefitting off the backs of all the people who are "forced" to live in a market rate apartment.

The crazy thing is everyone in NY thinks it's a joke, completely unfair, but they hold out hope that one day they may be able to snag one. The mindset is like Powerball. They should kick out all the middle class and re-distribute the apartments to truly needy people. That'll never happen because it's a huge political football. It's almost sacred to average NY'ers.

What’s considered a middle class household salary in NYC?

 

[75thru79]

What’s considered a middle class household salary in NYC?

Google is your friend:

 

[Huckleberry]

Google is your friend:

View attachment 54182

Sorry — I meant something a little different. I was asking what you think should count as middle-class specifically in the context of rent control in NYC. I agree with the idea that people who can afford to pay market rent probably shouldn’t be living in rent-controlled apartments. I’m just trying to get a sense of where that cutoff ought to be. Is about $50,000 the right line?

 

[75thru79]

Sorry — I meant something a little different. I was asking what you think should count as middle-class specifically in the context of rent control in NYC. I agree with the idea that people who can afford to pay market rent probably shouldn’t be living in rent-controlled apartments. I’m just trying to get a sense of where that cutoff ought to be. Is about $50,000 the right line?

Sorry, I don't live in New York so I am not familiar with the cost of living there. I would think that $50k for the cutoff of rent control is probably a little low. Maybe $75k, household income, for the cutoff. Even at $50k you would still have about 90% of people that would qualify for rent control wouldn't be able to get one due to lack of supply.