Politics: Is Obama Learning, or Was He Lying?

[gmart74]

I'm an Obama supporter and I voted for him solely on his policy positions.

which positions were those again?

was it his policy to end the war immediately... which he has now said he will not do.

was it his plan to tax windfall profits form oil companies... which he has now said he will not do.

how about his promise to bring new blood to washington.... which he has shown no urge to do considering the make up of his cabinet.

wow you must feel like he has lied to you. I would even hazard a guess that you and the rest of the obama supporters probably even want to impeach him for all his lies.... or are you only interested in lies when it comes to republican presidents?

He simply looks different than all the rest of the presidents. However he is actually a carbon copy once you get past his name and skin tone.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

which positions were those again?

. . .

wow you must feel like he has lied to you. I would even hazard a guess that you and the rest of the obama supporters probably even want to impeach him for all his lies.... or are you only interested in lies when it comes to republican presidents?

He simply looks different than all the rest of the presidents. However he is actually a carbon copy once you get past his name and skin tone.

I'm sorry if I'm not as up to date on my Weekly World News or [insert neocon rag] as you might be, but I would have to disagree with you on much of those position characterizations. Though it may come as a surprise, Obama is a politician, like McCain is a politician, like Dubya was a politician and Clinton before him and Reagan before him. Things change once a candidate has to start looking at policy implementation and has the means to do so - I don't think this has ever NOT happened in the history of elected offices.

The policy I care about is health care, and everything is going along better than expected in that regard. I find it hilarious that anti-Obama folks are relying on videos like those above and bunk surveys to make them feel better about the crushing defeat at the polls, despite the fact that exit polls showed voters with college and postgrad degrees favored Obama.

Maybe if McCain supporters had spent less time with a camcorder and survey trying to find the fraction of wholly uninformed Obama voters, then they could have given McCain a chance at the polls.

 

[NYBamaFan]

...Maybe if McCain supporters had spent less time with a camcorder and survey trying to find the fraction of wholly uninformed Obama voters, then they could have given McCain a chance at the polls.

No, the election was decided the day that the president had to go in front of Americans on national television and tell them that a $700BB bank bailout was required to keep our economy from collapsing altogether.

Even Bush Sr, who was enormously popular just 1 year before election day, was turned out when the economy cratered. When it comes right down to it, Americans didn't vote for Obama because of healthcare or Iraq - they voted for him because he represented the other party in an economic downturn. Obama went from a cool guy, to the guy almost overnight...

 

[gmart74]

I'm sorry if I'm not as up to date on my Weekly World News or [insert neocon rag] as you might be, but I would have to disagree with you on much of those position characterizations. Though it may come as a surprise, Obama is a politician, like McCain is a politician, like Dubya was a politician and Clinton before him and Reagan before him. Things change once a candidate has to start looking at policy implementation and has the means to do so - I don't think this has ever NOT happened in the history of elected offices.

All of those assertions can be found in Neocon spin sites such as CNN or Obama's own tv interviews.

So you freely admit that although Obama ran on a platform of "Change" it was all empty rhetoric just like all the politicians before him. I think we completely agree on this point. If you voted on a platform purely for universal healthcare then I agree- That is probably the one thing he will influence. I just hope it comes out better than I think it will.

One final thing- A lot of us who don't like Obama didn't like McCain either. So we aren't trying to soothe our open wounds from McCain's crushing defeat. We are simply shaking our heads at what a debacle elections have become and our zero confidence in either party to do anything positive for this country.

 

[brandon13830]

Obama said what he needed to say to win the election. McCain did the same thing but he just couldn't overcome the crumbling economy. So yeah, I'd guess you'd say Obama was lying but in the way that 99.9% of all politicians lie.

I'm actually not too bothered by the lies, though, as it appears from his early cabinet appointments that he's going to govern as more of a pragmatist than an ideologue, and in my opinion a pragmatist is better for the country at this point in time.

 

[NYBamaFan]

...I'm actually not too bothered by the lies, though...

In short, you do not care if he is a liar because he will do what is best for you? You trust a man with no integrity? Good luck with that...

 

[brandon13830]

In short, you do not care if he is a liar because he will do what is best for you? You trust a man with no integrity? Good luck with that...

No, I actually chose not to vote for Obama in part because of some of the lies he told. However, Obama will be the next POTUS and as such I am somewhat encouraged to see that the people who are most upset with the decisions he has made so far tend to be on the far left. It leads me to believe he may be more of a pragmatist than an ideologue.

 

[RhodeIslandRed]

The policy I care about is health care, and everything is going along better than expected in that regard. I find it hilarious that anti-Obama folks are relying on videos like those above and bunk surveys to make them feel better about the crushing defeat at the polls, despite the fact that exit polls showed voters with college and postgrad degrees favored Obama.

I understand that there is movement to improve reimbursement to primary care physicians, but in significant parts of the country, many primary care physicians have become heavily involved in diagnostic imaging and even minor vascular procedures. I understand their need to improve their reimbursement, but their mode to address this is to the detriment of the legitmate imaging and surgical specialists who train specifically for such procedures. I should wonder if there is any plan to limit by specialty who may own, operate, and maintain diagnostic imaging equipment for reimbursement. If not, can something with regards to this be introduced?

 

[TRUTIDE]

Obama said what he needed to say to win the election. McCain did the same thing but he just couldn't overcome the crumbling economy. So yeah, I'd guess you'd say Obama was lying but in the way that 99.9% of all politicians lie.

I'm actually not too bothered by the lies, though, as it appears from his early cabinet appointments that he's going to govern as more of a pragmatist than an ideologue, and in my opinion a pragmatist is better for the country at this point in time.

Socialism, as in government run healthcare and governernt taking over industry are ideologies. Communistic principles like redistributing wealth is an ideology. Running a campaign on "change" is an ideology.

Implementing policies that will increase our nation's debt in the middle of a recession and the logic of surrender in a war we have basically won do not seem very practical or pragmatic.

Now, Politicians lying is a "chic" thing. Since Obama is doing it, it is all of the sudden acceptable. If Obama lies then 99,9% of politicians must lie as well? Should we just sit back and accept lying as part of the game like we did when Barney Franks and his merry crew kept lying to us about Freddie/Fannie? Ridiculous. I dont doubt that 100% of people have told a lie at some point in time. The point is that some do it on a more regular and consistent basis. Obama has not even taken office yet and he is already backpedaling on the major issues he ran on. Now his informed constituents say all politicians lie so Obama should be praised more for catching on so quick. Such circular logic from the "change" crowd. Can someone link that Howard Stern video again?

 

[Bama4Ever831]

So how has he gone back on policies? He hasn't even stepped into the oval office besides to meet with George W. Bush. I think if you gave Bush several years to implement anything relatively useful you can at least give Obama a month in the presidency to try to hold true on his policies. I think all of you conservatives are going to be even more annoying with accusations than the liberals were during the Bush administration.

Perhaps he is moving towards the middle with some of his policies as he is seeing that it will benefit the most people. Isn't that what the conservatives want anyway? Why are you fighting him to stay as many of you point out "the most liberal US Senator?" I think he will move towards the middle with many of his policies.

 

[brandon13830]

Socialism, as in government run healthcare and governernt taking over industry are ideologies. Communistic principles like redistributing wealth is an ideology. Running a campaign on "change" is an ideology.

Implementing policies that will increase our nation's debt in the middle of a recession and the logic of surrender in a war we have basically won do not seem very practical or pragmatic.

Now, Politicians lying is a "chic" thing. Since Obama is doing it, it is all of the sudden acceptable. If Obama lies then 99,9% of politicians must lie as well? Should we just sit back and accept lying as part of the game like we did when Barney Franks and his merry crew kept lying to us about Freddie/Fannie? Ridiculous. I dont doubt that 100% of people have told a lie at some point in time. The point is that some do it on a more regular and consistent basis. Obama has not even taken office yet and he is already backpedaling on the major issues he ran on. Now his informed constituents say all politicians lie so Obama should be praised more for catching on so quick. Such circular logic from the "change" crowd. Can someone link that Howard Stern video again?

First off, I am not an Obama constituent. I never came remotely close to voting for the man.

Do you believe McCain to be, more or less, an honest politician? I don't. Frankly, in my opinion, there was only one honest person who ran for office this election cycle and he was laughed at because of his policies.

As for not being too bothered by the lies, as I stated my last post, that is because the decisions Obama has made since the election are upsetting the far left moreso than the middle or the right. It now appears Obama will not repeal the Bush tax cuts as he had stated he would while running for office. It also appears that he will not push for a hasty withdrawal from Iraq, something he has been hedging his position on ever since he became the Democratic nominee. From the cabinet appointments he has made thus far I have hope that he will govern from the center more than anyone on the far left can stand.

Could I be wrong about everything? Sure. But since becoming the President-elect Obama looks less and less like the far left idiologue some wanted him to be, and instead looks more like someone interested in a pragmatic approach.

 

[NYBamaFan]

...Perhaps he is moving towards the middle with some of his policies as he is seeing that it will benefit the most people. Isn't that what the conservatives want anyway? Why are you fighting him to stay as many of you point out "the most liberal US Senator?" I think he will move towards the middle with many of his policies.

The point is that McCain said throughout the campaign that Obama would have to back away from these policies. He pointed out to America that they were simply not viable options right now. Obama's response was the McCain was just another GWB.

Well, it turns out that McCain was right. It turns out that Obama knew this all along, and he was just lying to get votes from dupes. (I am not saying that everyone who voted for Obama is a dupe, so calm down).

Look, Obama was going to win this election anyway, especially with the economic meltdown. The point of this thread is to point out that even this man, the "Washington outsider", has already been bought and paid for. He is already marching to the beat of someone else's drum.

We have to stop this. We have to demand more. One side supports their guy no matter what he does wrong, and the other side throws rocks, no matter what he does right. To what end?

I think that America needs to completely reform our campaign finance and lobbying laws. All of our politicians are corrupt, and we don't seem to care...

 

[RhodeIslandRed]

I think we have all boarded the ride at the political themepark. We can't or not allowed to get off. We will just have to face whatever is thrown our way.

 

[Bama4Ever831]

The point is that McCain said throughout the campaign that Obama would have to back away from these policies. He pointed out to America that they were simply not viable options right now. Obama's response was the McCain was just another GWB.

Well, it turns out that McCain was right. It turns out that Obama knew this all along, and he was just lying to get votes from dupes. (I am not saying that everyone who voted for Obama is a dupe, so calm down).

Look, Obama was going to win this election anyway, especially with the economic meltdown. The point of this thread is to point out that even this man, the "Washington outsider", has already been bought and paid for. He is already marching to the beat of someone else's drum.

We have to stop this. We have to demand more. One side supports their guy no matter what he does wrong, and the other side throws rocks, no matter what he does right. To what end?

I think that America needs to completely reform our campaign finance and lobbying laws. All of our politicians are corrupt, and we don't seem to care...

I definetely agree with everything you said about the reform of campaign finance and lobbying laws. However, I still don't think he has backed down on his policies. That can't be deciphered until after he has passed some laws. I wouldn't point the finger at Obama. McCain's views from the 2000 campaign are very different from what he ran on in 2008. I think it is good that Obama has the intellectual flexibility to be able to change what to do based on the current situation. As someome already pointed out, it is not always good to charge in partian views and not try to look at the othersides and see if anything is better. In short, he hasn't lied because he hasn't done anything yet different from what he promised. Everything right now is just talk. And yes if/when I decide Obama has become "broken" in Washington I will be right there beside you, but I don't think it has happened or will happen.

 

[TRUTIDE]

First off, I am not an Obama constituent. I never came remotely close to voting for the man.

Do you believe McCain to be, more or less, an honest politician? I don't. Frankly, in my opinion, there was only one honest person who ran for office this election cycle and he was laughed at because of his policies.

As for not being too bothered by the lies, as I stated my last post, that is because the decisions Obama has made since the election are upsetting the far left moreso than the middle or the right. It now appears Obama will not repeal the Bush tax cuts as he had stated he would while running for office. It also appears that he will not push for a hasty withdrawal from Iraq, something he has been hedging his position on ever since he became the Democratic nominee. From the cabinet appointments he has made thus far I have hope that he will govern from the center more than anyone on the far left can stand.

Could I be wrong about everything? Sure. But since becoming the President-elect Obama looks less and less like the far left idiologue some wanted him to be, and instead looks more like someone interested in a pragmatic approach.

Well... hopefully you will be right and he will "change" from the far left positions he ran on. I just do not see it happening. He energized the far left with his promises of raising taxes, increasing government programs, socialized healthcare w/ government funding for abortions, gun control, cutting defense and quitting the war. He rallied all of these different groups to shell out big dollars for his campaign. There is no telling just who all he is indebted to. Then, he will have a democratic controlled Congress steering his path. There just is not much resistence built into the system as it is now.

The worst politician is the one that tells everyone everything they want to hear. Obama can talk like he supports the 2nd amendment but then vote for some of the most stringent gun laws presented. He can say he supports clean coal to the coal workers in Ohio in West Virginia and then tell another group in California that there is no such thing as clean coal. He can say that he is personally against abortion to the religious right and then try to pass laws that would allow infantcide. He can tell Jewish people that he supports Isreal and tell a Muslim group that Palistan has been right in their efforts. He can tell one group that they will not lose their employer based healthcare and tell another group that everyone will come under his government health plan. He can speak out against people like Rezko, Reverend Wright and Governor Blago after he spent years working alongside them and supporting them. His deception comes from telling everyone what they want to hear and with many Americans being uninformed about politics (as recent polling suggest) and the media in the state it's in, deception seems to work well for him.

 

[Tidewater]

As for not being too bothered by the lies, as I stated my last post, that is because the decisions Obama has made since the election are upsetting the far left moreso than the middle or the right. It now appears Obama will not repeal the Bush tax cuts as he had stated he would while running for office. It also appears that he will not push for a hasty withdrawal from Iraq, something he has been hedging his position on ever since he became the Democratic nominee. From the cabinet appointments he has made thus far I have hope that he will govern from the center more than anyone on the far left can stand.

Could I be wrong about everything? Sure. But since becoming the President-elect Obama looks less and less like the far left idiologue some wanted him to be, and instead looks more like someone interested in a pragmatic approach.

I believe that Obama appeared to embrace some far left positions largely because he came from urban Chicago and to retain his position, he had to.
Now liberated from that requirement, it appears he will not be the hard leftist that the far left had hoped.
We'll see.