It's official - Russia enters Crimea

[crimsonaudio]

Sometimes trade/economic sanctions aren't enough. Just ask the Japanese. Too many people think that Vlad is thinking like most leaders of today. He isn't. Look at Soviet history. They have a loooooonnnnggg history of not caring if their people suffer at the expense of achieving their empirical goals.

That's fine - when he's a real threat to us we can discuss further action, but at this point, it's simply not our problem. It's akin to being in a foreign country and seeing two drunk guys fighting - you going to pick sides and get involved?

And you can forget the 'global economy' argument - if that's really true, the global economy will punish the Russian economy - which is weaker than ours - before we have to get involved militarily.

If Putin moves again, it simply proves we need to stay out of it.

 

[CajunCrimson]

That's fine - when he's a real threat to us we can discuss further action, but at this point, it's simply not our problem. It's akin to being in a foreign country and seeing two drunk guys fighting - you going to pick sides and get involved?

And you can forget the 'global economy' argument - if that's really true, the global economy will punish the Russian economy - which is weaker than ours - before we have to get involved militarily.

If Putin moves again, it simply proves we need to stay out of it.

We've maneuvered ourselves out of being able to do anything to stop him. In 5 1/2 years, Obama has turned us back into a regional power -- as we no longer have the resources to defend the world.

I know the Libertarians really want us to be more isolationist in our behavior -- but when we aren't the world's policeman, the world ends up not having one -- and if we end up with another World War scenario -- we may be able to defend ourselves -- and we have the resources to be self sufficient -- but, man, oh man! The rest of the world is really going to miss us .... lots of people are going to die.

 

[bamacon]

That's fine - when he's a real threat to us we can discuss further action, but at this point, it's simply not our problem. It's akin to being in a foreign country and seeing two drunk guys fighting - you going to pick sides and get involved?

And you can forget the 'global economy' argument - if that's really true, the global economy will punish the Russian economy - which is weaker than ours - before we have to get involved militarily.

If Putin moves again, it simply proves we need to stay out of it.

I'm not for WWIII. I'm not for world cop or nation building either, but I'm also against breaking our word. We could do more than MREs for the Ukraine. If we were serious about stopping Vlad they would have already put the teeth in with the sanctions. What they did was laughably pathetic. We could do a training exercise and that would likely be the end of it. My overall question is how long do we just ignore him? IOW, do we do something if he attacks NATO or Alaska? I beginning to think he is simply a pure, unadulterated megalomaniac who needs to have his fingers very far away from red buttons is all.

 

[LMCane]

True that

Sometimes trade/economic sanctions aren't enough. Just ask the Japanese. Too many people think that Vlad is thinking like most leaders of today. He isn't. Look at Soviet history. They have a loooooonnnnggg history of not caring if their people suffer at the expense of achieving their empirical goals.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I'm not for WWIII. I'm not for world cop or nation building either, but I'm also against breaking our word.

What word have we broken by not getting involved?

 

[bamacon]

What word have we broken by not getting involved?

Budapest Memorandum.

http://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

 

[crimsonaudio]

Budapest Memorandum.

http://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Yah, the Russians have stomped all over it, but what have we done?

 

[Tide1986]

Yah, the Russians have stomped all over it, but what have we done?

It appears that we are substantially fulfilling our obligations under the agreement.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

Let the Germans, French, Poles, Italians, Brits, Dutch, Finns, Swedes, Norwegians, Belgians, Czechs, Danes, Hungarians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Lithiuanians, Lativians, Estonians, Greeks and Turks handle this one.

Time for them to "man" up instead of relying on Uncle Sam to bail their cracks out of a jam every time.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

In fact, the Germans already signaled they aren't ready to do anything. If the Germans don't want to deal with it, then let it ride.

 

[crimsonaudio]

And here... we... go...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26910210

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

And here... we... go...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26910210

Yep. I still stick by my statement that Russia takes the eastern, heavily Russian dominated provinces and several southern ones that link to Moldova and give them a land bridge to Crimea. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania may be "repatriated" as well.

 

[Bama Reb]

Let the Germans, French, Poles, Italians, Brits, Dutch, Finns, Swedes, Norwegians, Belgians, Czechs, Danes, Hungarians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Lithiuanians, Lativians, Estonians, Greeks and Turks handle this one.

Time for them to "man" up instead of relying on Uncle Sam to bail their cracks out of a jam every time.

^^^This.

Seems most of Europe along with the Eastern Hemisphere is always so eager to criticize the US for our foreign policies,. Yet when another country invades theirs, they are the first to call for US to intervene and save them. Screw them.

 

[mittman]

Wow guys, it is if WWII never happened. I am not one for going in solo at this point, but where DO you draw the line? If Russia takes what it wants of the Ukraine, Moldova, Latvia , Lithuania, Estonia, and starts talking about their Balkan brothers what do we do then? We have been pushing for NATO membership of countries, does it only mean something when they aren't being invaded? It does make a good sound bite to force the EU countries to fend for themselves, but do we really want Germany to be the lead here? 70 years is a long time, but not that long.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

Wow guys, it is if WWII never happened. I am not one for going in solo at this point, but where DO you draw the line? If Russia takes what it wants of the Ukraine, Moldova, Latvia , Lithuania, Estonia, and starts talking about their Balkan brothers what do we do then? We have been pushing for NATO membership of countries, does it only mean something when they aren't being invaded? It does make a good sound bite to force the EU countries to fend for themselves, but do we really want Germany to be the lead here? 70 years is a long time, but not that long.

Until Europe ups the ante and raises all their militaries to show a strength of force, why should we care?

 

[mittman]

Until Europe ups the ante and raises all their militaries to show a strength of force, why should we care?

Because the days of this not affecting us are long gone (if they ever existed). It does. I don't think we even have an option to return to the isolationism we had prior to WWII. I don't think it will be allowed any more than we were allowed to stay out of that war.

My point about Germany was simply to remind what has happened when they have militarized. There are still nationalistic tendencies that will come into play.

I don't think we need to be chomping at the bit to get involved militarily in every skirmish that pops up around the world, but if we are going to have an organization like NATO where we make ourselves allies we do need to act like allies or we suffer the same consequences we have in the past. People will simply not trust us. I'll never forget something my uncle said when he returned from Vietnam. Other than the huge loss of life, the worst thing about that experience was seeing the faces of the people who had put their trust in us when we broke it. We have a lot of friends in the former communist block countries. They are still young enough to remember and be grateful to the U.S. for the stand that was taken. Do we want to just throw that away?

 

[GrayTide]

If history has taught us anything, it is that Germany is not to be trusted?

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

Because the days of this not affecting us are long gone (if they ever existed). It does. I don't think we even have an option to return to the isolationism we had prior to WWII. I don't think it will be allowed any more than we were allowed to stay out of that war.

My point about Germany was simply to remind what has happened when they have militarized. There are still nationalistic tendencies that will come into play.

I don't think we need to be chomping at the bit to get involved militarily in every skirmish that pops up around the world, but if we are going to have an organization like NATO where we make ourselves allies we do need to act like allies or we suffer the same consequences we have in the past. People will simply not trust us. I'll never forget something my uncle said when he returned from Vietnam. Other than the huge loss of life, the worst thing about that experience was seeing the faces of the people who had put their trust in us when we broke it. We have a lot of friends in the former communist block countries. They are still young enough to remember and be grateful to the U.S. for the stand that was taken. Do we want to just throw that away?

If you want your son to go fight for Europe, put him on a plane. Mine isn't going. Sorry.

 

[mittman]

If you want your son to go fight for Europe, put him on a plane. Mine isn't going. Sorry.

There is never a time when parents will be willing to send their children to war over anything. If that is the criteria we use to determine whether or not military action will be taken we will have a worse reputation than France. Just watched a good movie all about that same sentiment call The Patriot.

I AM NOT A HAWK on this, but there is going to be a line drawn somewhere if it keeps going down this path. Whether or not Hoover thought we should stay out of it; whether or not Gerald Nye or Smedley Butler convinced a lot of people that it is just the war profiteers wanting it; we still got drawn in. We got drawn in so late that it took much longer than if had happened earlier.

I just don't think we need to forget the recent past so quickly that's all.

 

[Tide1986]

Until Europe ups the ante and raises all their militaries to show a strength of force, why should we care?

I'm with you. If the Europeans don't want to fight for their land, then I don't particularly care to either.