Judge orders Verizon to hand over all cell phone call data to NSA

[lazlohollyfeld]

I'm saying people on this board criticize Obama in this very way. Come on don't you think they should at least question his family? Might be way Bush could not get the guy. Didn't bush cut FBI counter terrorism funds by 2/3 after 9/11. He was really out to win the war on "terror".

You are saying people on this board criticize Obama in that way, Mikes12 was pointing out that the media criticized Bush that way. See the difference?

And no, he didn't cut FBI counter terrorism funds by 2/3 after 9/11. The FBI requested an additional $1.5 billion for counter terrorism over and above what was already budgeted. They only received $500 billion in additional funds. Again, that was $500 billion over and above what they already had. Although to a lefty you probably do see that as a cut, but any sane person realizes that is just silly. Oh, and the Department of Homeland Security was formed shortly after this "cut" to the FBI. Their mission statement begins:

"The mission of the Office will be to develop and coordinate the implementation of a comprehensive national strategy to secure the United States from terrorist threats or attacks. The Office will coordinate the executive branch's efforts to detect, prepare for, prevent, protect against, respond to, and recover from terrorist attacks within the United States."

But you already knew that....

 

[swoop10]

My typically bull crap you were the one that took this convo down this road. Second it seems okay for you to blame 9/11 on Clinton but O God do not let Obama blame Bush. So are you saying Bushed screwed up by visiting the WTC site? It seems that would have stopped workers as well. Plus what about the great body armor Bush gave troops while in Iraq? Nice to know it wouldn't stop a bullet.

Yes it is your typical bull crap and I took it down this road because you said the story was BS without anything to back it up. I simply wondered if you thought it was BS during the Bush years and typically you didn't think so.

As to my blaming Clinton and Obama blaming Bush, the difference is Bush didn't blame Clinton. Obama never accepts responsibility for anything. He is a wimp and if really had to face a media the way Bush did he would fold like a rug.

The last thing about the flak jackets is just stupid. The President doesn't inspect military gear, that is someone else's job.

 

[BamaPokerplayer]

You are saying people on this board criticize Obama in that way, Mikes12 was pointing out that the media criticized Bush that way. See the difference?

And no, he didn't cut FBI counter terrorism funds by 2/3 after 9/11. The FBI requested an additional $1.5 billion for counter terrorism over and above what was already budgeted. They only received $500 billion in additional funds. Again, that was $500 billion over and above what they already had. Although to a lefty you probably do see that as a cut, but any sane person realizes that is just silly. Oh, and the Department of Homeland Security was formed shortly after this "cut" to the FBI. Their mission statement begins:

"The mission of the Office will be to develop and coordinate the implementation of a comprehensive national strategy to secure the United States from terrorist threats or attacks. The Office will coordinate the executive branch's efforts to detect, prepare for, prevent, protect against, respond to, and recover from terrorist attacks within the United States."

But you already knew that....

I was just using the board has an example, the Media has hammered Obama as well. On the FBI it makes sense now. . Was not aware of the money going to Homeland.

 

[BamaPokerplayer]

Yes it is your typical bull crap and I took it down this road because you said the story was BS without anything to back it up. I simply wondered if you thought it was BS during the Bush years and typically you didn't think so.

As to my blaming Clinton and Obama blaming Bush, the difference is Bush didn't blame Clinton. Obama never accepts responsibility for anything. He is a wimp and if really had to face a media the way Bush did he would fold like a rug.

The last thing about the flak jackets is just stupid. The President doesn't inspect military gear, that is someone else's job.

You gave me two options, saying the story was the easier out. What are you saying that I didn't think was B.S. during the Bush years?

The president doesn't inspect but he knows when they are wearing paper thin vest.

We don't even want to go down the road of Bush trying to put a lid on everyone and everything about 9/11. That is about a 1000 times more screwed up than the Benghazi debacle.

 

[lazlohollyfeld]

I was just using the board has an example, the Media has hammered Obama as well. On the FBI it makes sense now. . Was not aware of the money going to Homeland.

There are quite a few scandals brewing out there. The whole NSA/Verizon thing, the IRS issue, the DOJ vs AP, the continuing search for what exactly happened in Banghazi, and so on. Which of these stories was broken, Woodward and Bernstein style, by the mainstream American media? I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

 

[BamaPokerplayer]

There are quite a few scandals brewing out there. The whole NSA/Verizon thing, the IRS issue, the DOJ vs AP, the continuing search for what exactly happened in Banghazi, and so on. Which of these stories was broken, Woodward and Bernstein style, by the mainstream American media? I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

I'll say none. Can you give me an example outside the infamous gate?

 

[gmart74]

I don't really understand what everyone is getting excited about. The Obama and Bush administrations both made it very clear that the Bill of Rights is irrelevant to the functioning of a police state. They have both made it very clear that people here are subjects, not citizens. They both have twisted laws to say whatever they desire. And we, the people, rewarded both of them by reelecting them. It isn't just that we deserve it, we actually begged them to do it to us.

This is news only in the sense that specific companies and programs have been mentioned. However, if any of you truly are astonished that this type of surveillance is happening need to realize many people have been screaming at the top of their lungs for well over a decade about this. Time to crawl out from under that rock and start developing an informed knowledge base about the world around you.

 

[chanson78]

I just thanked/liked gmart's post. What is the world coming to.

PS Its ok Fed's hes not a terrist'.

 

[swoop10]

You gave me two options, saying the story was the easier out. What are you saying that I didn't think was B.S. during the Bush years?

The president doesn't inspect but he knows when they are wearing paper thin vest.

We don't even want to go down the road of Bush trying to put a lid on everyone and everything about 9/11. That is about a 1000 times more screwed up than the Benghazi debacle.

I gave you two options because those were the only two options I saw, if you were calling something else BS you were free to say so. That is what happens when you give such a simplistic answer as BS and don't explain yourself. I asked if you thought this happened during the Bush years and you said yes. So the story is BS for Obama but happened during Bush according to you. Obama doesn't have to take responsibility for anything as long as peopele like you excuse everything he does.

Sorry but that's just stupid. You don't expect Obama to know anything that is going on right under his nose but Bush should know about flak jackets. That's ridiculous, IMO.

Bush handled somethings wrong on 9/11 but he didn't go to bed and tell the SOS and Defense Minister to handle the problem. He sit in the situation room and watched the BL raid but went to bed while a so-called friend was being killed. Sorry but both were screw ups but Benghazi will eventually come out as a far bigger one.

 

[BamaPokerplayer]

I gave you two options because those were the only two options I saw, if you were calling something else BS you were free to say so. That is what happens when you give such a simplistic answer as BS and don't explain yourself. I asked if you thought this happened during the Bush years and you said yes. So the story is BS for Obama but happened during Bush according to you. Obama doesn't have to take responsibility for anything as long as peopele like you excuse everything he does.

Sorry but that's just stupid. You don't expect Obama to know anything that is going on right under his nose but Bush should know about flak jackets. That's ridiculous, IMO.

Bush handled somethings wrong on 9/11 but he didn't go to bed and tell the SOS and Defense Minister to handle the problem. He sit in the situation room and watched the BL raid but went to bed while a so-called friend was being killed. Sorry but both were screw ups but Benghazi will eventually come out as a far bigger one.

I said Bush stared us down this road. I don't think I said Obama shouldn't know everything. Congress wad pushing for more protective gear for troops. I don't think I excused anything Obama did in this thread. Lastly, I'll say you win we are wasting time.

 

[Jon]

6 pages in and we are already doing an Us versus Them (R Vrs D) blame fest.

They don't even have to try and divide us, we do it to ourselves. The party means nothing, don't believe Limbaugh or Maddow. Both sides are slight variations on the same thing. Both grow government, both ignore the Constitution when they feel like it. Sure you may like the stated motivation (though it is rarely their true motivation) of one side or the other but ultimately it's all about gaining more power for them at the expense of us.


If you are a Republican and honest with yourself you can easily see how Bush went against "Conservative Principals" throughout his tenure as President. If you are a Democrat and honest with yourself it should be increasingly obvious that your guy is full of crap too. When the next election comes up try and recall this and go a different direction.

 

[Tide1986]

...you can easily see how Bush went against "Conservative Principals" throughout his tenure as President.

Yes, he did, which was quite disappointing.

 

[chanson78]

When the next election comes up try and recall this and go a different direction.

I would love to, but the jerkwads in both parties have rigged the system so that a legitimate third party contender will never be able to be competitive. You say that the parties are exactly the same. I would modify that slightly. There are two parties/divisions. One sees themselves as the ruling class, and the other is that of "Joe the Plumber". Everyday working folks who just try and make it in the midst of the rich and the powerful including self indulgent politicians who don't see Americans as equals anymore, but something to either be taken care of, or marginalized in such a way that they can't ever hope to join that rarified air.

Elections are mainly so that those at the top can find some legal way to be the people who get to fleece the rest of us. I liken the elections in the US to that of a mental patient getting to pick which behavior modification therapy he wants to use. You can pick either lobotomy or electro shock, which at first makes you feel as if you have some say in the matter, but at the end of the day you are still sitting in your chair drooling at the TV.

Edit: I needed to clear it up. There aren't parties any more, its just rich people who want to get richer selling varying brands of snake oil.

 

[bamachile]

I would love to, but the jerkwads in both parties have rigged the system so that a legitimate third party contender will never be able to be competitive.

The chief frustration of all third party/indie politics is that there is no short game, only a long one. We serve more as a protest than as an influence, unfortunately. Occasionally we get a Representative or Senator who aligns with use somewhat, but for the most part this is our role:

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think the two parties are "Thieves and Liars on the Left" and "Thieves and Liars on the Right". Take your pick.

I would love to, but the jerkwads in both parties have rigged the system so that a legitimate third party contender will never be able to be competitive. You say that the parties are exactly the same. I would modify that slightly. There are two parties, but one is of the ruling class, and the other is that of "Joe the Plumber". Elections are mainly so that those at the top can find some legal way to be the people who get to fleece the rest of us. I liken the elections in the US to that of a mental patient getting to pick which behavior modification therapy he wants to use. You can pick either lobotomy or electro shock, which at first makes you feel as if you have some say in the matter, but at the end of the day you are still sitting in your chair drooling at the TV.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I would love to, but the jerkwads in both parties have rigged the system so that a legitimate third party contender will never be able to be competitive. You say that the parties are exactly the same. I would modify that slightly. There are two parties, but one is of the ruling class, and the other is that of "Joe the Plumber". Elections are mainly so that those at the top can find some legal way to be the people who get to fleece the rest of us. I liken the elections in the US to that of a mental patient getting to pick which behavior modification therapy he wants to use. You can pick either lobotomy or electro shock, which at first makes you feel as if you have some say in the matter, but at the end of the day you are still sitting in your chair drooling at the TV.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the bolded statement.

Are you saying something like Republicans are big business while Democrats are more for the common man?

 

[Tide1986]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the bolded statement.

Are you saying something like Republicans are big business while Democrats are more for the common man?

I was confused as well. It seems that the so-called "ruling class" is comprised of the financial, social, and academic elite of both parties.

 

[chanson78]

I think the two parties are "Thieves and Liars on the Left" and "Thieves and Liars on the Right". Take your pick.

I probably should have stated it better. I don't think there are true parties in politics. Its parties in society. Those at the very top who view themselves as shepherds to the flock of unknowing, dimwitted people and everyday folks like you and me who are the standard US populace without a true window into just what really goes on. That is unless you are one of them!

 

[Jon]

I would love to, but the jerkwads in both parties have rigged the system so that a legitimate third party contender will never be able to be competitive. You say that the parties are exactly the same. I would modify that slightly. There are two parties, but one is of the ruling class, and the other is that of "Joe the Plumber". Elections are mainly so that those at the top can find some legal way to be the people who get to fleece the rest of us. I liken the elections in the US to that of a mental patient getting to pick which behavior modification therapy he wants to use. You can pick either lobotomy or electro shock, which at first makes you feel as if you have some say in the matter, but at the end of the day you are still sitting in your chair drooling at the TV.

See, this is part of the problem. The two majors have pushed the Lie that a vote for a third party is "throwing your vote away" for so long that most people believe it.

I've been arguing for years that the only way to truly throw your vote away is to vote for a party over a person when the candidate sucks. If you hold your nose to vote for Romney or McCain when you only liked them more than the guy with the (D) after his name you threw your vote away. Same thing if you voted for Obama for reelection after he went back on so many campaign promises or voted for Kerry because "at least he's not Bush". By still giving them your vote you are telling them that they can get away with whatever they want. They can put a crap candidate up and you'll still vote for them.

We need to shake things up. The only way to take back power is to deflate the power of the parties. Leave, stop giving them money and more than anything stop voting for their crap candidates just because they are in your party.

 

[chanson78]

Found this on reddit.