King Trump: What if he chooses to ignore the judiciary?

[Bamaro]

The SC has basically said already that trump can do what he wants as president. Mayby the answer is to go after those that back up his impulses.

 

[Huckleberry]

NYT gift link


What if There’s No Way to Stop Trump’s Approach to Power?
And how this could all go down in the courts.

President Trump may forever reshape the boundaries of executive power. This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat and Jack Goldsmith, who was the head of the White House’s Office of Legal Counsel under President George W. Bush, discuss which cases are most likely to win in the courts and permanently expand the executive branch — for better or worse.

 

[Tidewater]

As I said before, we'd better hope a lot of people act like Robert E. Lee in 1861 and decline to follow his orders.

 

[Tidewater]

It's worse than that. After the decision in Ex-Parte Merryman, Lincoln, it seems issues arrest warrants for the justices who voted against Lincoln.

The Lincoln Administration did arrest a federal circuit judge in the DC circuit (William Matthew Merrick) for issuing a writ of habeas corpus for a minor child who had stupidly enlisted in the Union army without parental permission. The child thought better of his career choices and his father petitioned for a writ of habeas corpus to Merrick's DC court. Merrick issued the writ..
For this "crime," the judge was placed under house arrest and Republicans terminated the judge's tenure (without impeachment) by "re-organizing" the federal DC judiciary and naming four reliably Republican judges to replace two existing federal judges. Judge Merrick's employment was terminated.

This makes another relevant precedent: if Republicans do not like Judge Boasberg's rulings, they can disestablish his court, and establish another one and fill the "vacancy" with reliably Republican judges. They would only be following the example of Mr. "Government of the people, by the people and for the people." Who could oppose that?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

QED.
It is not the Constitution's place to conform to the Supreme Court (which is a creature of the Constitution). It is the job of the Supreme Court to conform to the provisions of the Constitution. Being a human institution, the court is flawed and prone to making mistakes.

Your position kind of makes my point. The Supreme Court claims the power to rule anything they do not like as unconstitutional. (A federal judge Virginia declared the Constitution unconstitutional, citing the preamble of the Declaration of Independence to do so.) Since the federal judiciary claims the unconstitutional power* to declare others' actions unconstitutional, what prevents the president from doing the same thing?


* Article III: The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;

But it took Justice Marshall in Marbury v. Madison to tell us what that meant...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

As I said before, we'd better hope a lot of people act like Robert E. Lee in 1861 and decline to follow his orders.

I interests me that, in the "it really happened" era, the primary worry seemed to be illegal military orders. That turns out not to be the crux at all...

 

[Tidewater]

I interests me that, in the "it really happened" era, the primary worry seemed to be illegal military orders. That turns out not to be the crux at all...

True, but military officers are not the only ones who take an oath to the Constitution. Military officers are just the ones most prone to violent action.

 

[AWRTR]

The Lincoln Administration did arrest a federal circuit judge in the DC circuit (William Matthew Merrick) for issuing a writ of habeas corpus for a minor child who had stupidly enlisted in the Union army without parental permission. The child thought better of his career choices and his father petitioned for a writ of habeas corpus to Merrick's DC court. Merrick issued the writ..
For this "crime," the judge was placed under house arrest and Republicans terminated the judge's tenure (without impeachment) by "re-organizing" the federal DC judiciary and naming four reliably Republican judges to replace two existing federal judges. Judge Merrick's employment was terminated.

This makes another relevant precedent: if Republicans do not like Judge Boasberg's rulings, they can disestablish his court, and establish another one and fill the "vacancy" with reliably Republican judges. They would only be following the example of Mr. "Government of the people, by the people and for the people." Who could oppose that?

This type of stuff is why when people call Lincoln the greatest president ever or even a top 5 president my eyes roll so hard I worry they could get stuck like that. Lincoln was for whatever would get him what he wanted not what was right. He didn't free slaves during the war in the places he actually could have done it.

 

[Tidewater]

This type of stuff is why when people call Lincoln the greatest president ever or even a top 5 president my eyes roll so hard I worry they could get stuck like that. Lincoln was for whatever would get him what he wanted not what was right. He didn't free slaves during the war in the places he actually could have done it.

~698,000 dead.
30,000 northern "political prisoners" (as the administration itself called them).
400 newspapers closed because of what they printed.
Maryland legislators arrested before they could vote "the wrong way."
A member of Congress banished.
Eleven elected state governments over thrown and replaced by appointed military governors.

Slavery is gone and thank God for it, but the way he conducted himself leaves a lot to be desired. If Trump did half as much, his opponents were scream, bloody murder.

 

[Bamaro]

This type of stuff is why when people call Lincoln the greatest president ever or even a top 5 president my eyes roll so hard I worry they could get stuck like that. Lincoln was for whatever would get him what he wanted not what was right. He didn't free slaves during the war in the places he actually could have done it.

He was a political pragmatist and aware of political limitations.

 

[AWRTR]

He was a political pragmatist and aware of political limitations.

So that’s why he threw a federal judge into house arrest and took his position from him. That’s super pragmatic.

 

[JDCrimson]

Did any of this play a role in his assassination?

~698,000 dead.
30,000 northern "political prisoners" (as the administration itself called them).
400 newspapers closed because of what they printed.
Maryland legislators arrested before they could vote "the wrong way."
A member of Congress banished.
Eleven elected state governments over thrown and replaced by appointed military governors.

Slavery is gone and thank God for it, but the way he conducted himself leaves a lot to be desired. If Trump did half as much, his opponents were scream, bloody murder.

 

[Tidewater]

Did any of this play a role in his assassination?

Don't know for sure. Booth was killed shortly afterwards.
Lincoln's death, however, was a disaster for the South, coming when it did.
Lincoln was the only northern politicians with the clout to stand up to the Radical Republicans and it was Lincoln who had told Grant before the Appomattox Campaign, "Let'em up easy."
With Lincoln gone, evil, spiteful, hate-filled men took over.

 

[Huckleberry]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/30/us/trump-could-bring-abrego-garcia-back-us-hnk?cid=ios_app

Trump says he “could” bring Abrego Garcia back from El Salvador, but won’t



The courts and due process don’t seem to matter to Trump. If he’s willing to openly defy the judiciary and ignore the U.S. Constitution, how are the rights of any of us safe? Does this not greatly concern our conservative friends here, no matter how much you despise the Democratic Party? We have our fair share of strict constructionist posters with varying degrees of expertise regarding the document. It would be interesting to hear some of their thoughts.

 

[JDCrimson]

The only people who truly exhibit anf live the freedom of democracy are swing voters and independents who cross party lines when necessary. Everyone who supports one party regardless of its objectives above all else has already subjected themselves to diminished freedom.

themsleves

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/30/us/trump-could-bring-abrego-garcia-back-us-hnk?cid=ios_app

Trump says he “could” bring Abrego Garcia back from El Salvador, but won’t



The courts and due process don’t seem to matter to Trump. If he’s willing to openly defy the judiciary and ignore the U.S. Constitution, how are the rights of any of us safe? Does this not greatly concern our conservative friends here, no matter how much you despise the Democratic Party? We have our fair share of strict constructionist posters with varying degrees of expertise regarding the document. It would be interesting to hear some of their thoughts.

 

[Crimson1967]

Don't know for sure. Booth was killed shortly afterwards.
Lincoln's death, however, was a disaster for the South, coming when it did.
Lincoln was the only northern politicians with the clout to stand up to the Radical Republicans and it was Lincoln who had told Grant before the Appomattox Campaign, "Let'em up easy."
With Lincoln gone, evil, spiteful, hate-filled men took over.

I don’t really believe it, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Edwin Stanton was secretly involved in the plot to kill Lincoln.

The plan was also to kill Andrew Johnson and William Seward. The guy who was supposed to kill Johnson chickened out but Seward was brutally stabbed and was lucky to survive.

With the top two dead the succession law at the time gives the job to the pro tem of the Senate. But I could see Stanton as Secretary of War making a power play and declaring martial law and going full commando on the South.

He just happened to be at Lincoln’s deathbed and kicked Mary out of the room. Then an insane man defies orders and kills Booth before he could stand trial and say anything. The people at the trial weren’t allowed to testify and were kept in inhumane conditions before being hanged.

No, I don’t think he had a role in it but it isn’t that far fetched of a conspiracy theory. Anyone who thinks the CIA killed JFK and then Oswald to silence him could certainly buy this. I think it’s more likely than theory Jeff Davis was pulling the strings.

 

[Tidewater]

I don’t really believe it, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Edwin Stanton was secretly involved in the plot to kill Lincoln.

The plan was also to kill Andrew Johnson and William Seward. The guy who was supposed to kill Johnson chickened out but Seward was brutally stabbed and was lucky to survive.

With the top two dead the succession law at the time gives the job to the pro tem of the Senate. But I could see Stanton as Secretary of War making a power play and declaring martial law and going full commando on the South.

He just happened to be at Lincoln’s deathbed and kicked Mary out of the room. Then an insane man defies orders and kills Booth before he could stand trial and say anything. The people at the trial weren’t allowed to testify and were kept in inhumane conditions before being hanged.

No, I don’t think he had a role in it but it isn’t that far fetched of a conspiracy theory. Anyone who thinks the CIA killed JFK and then Oswald to silence him could certainly buy this. I think it’s more likely than theory Jeff Davis was pulling the strings.

I have read someone advance the theory before.
There were assassins designated for Pres (Booth), VP (Atzerodt), SecState (Powell), but nobody designated to kill Stanton. Hardly dispositive, but when you look at his later behavior (barricading himself into his office to disobey Pres. Johnson's firing of him as SecWar).
Stanton was one of the bitter hate-filled Republicans and getting the more moderate LIncoln out of the way once the war was over suited Stanton's politics.
I would say, "Possible. Hardly proven," though.

 

[Crimson1967]

I admit this is something I pulled out of my butt. That said, good point that they conspirators didn’t want to take out the guy leading the military.