Murdaugh Murder and More

[4Q Basket Case]

Murdaugh is clearly a terrible human being. Not having heard the defense yet, I think he did what he’s accused of.

I also think the prosecution has a logistical problem it needs to reconcile: The wife was killed with a rifle. The son with a shotgun. The bodies were found near each other, and I’ve heard no mention of either being moved.

So how does a single shooter kill one victim with one long gun, and the other victim with another long gun…both guns requiring both hands to operate?

Regardless of which was shot first, it seems that the second victim would be running — might be toward the first victim or away from the shooter. Either way, the shooter would have to drop the first weapon, pick up the second, and bring it to bear with some measure of accuracy.

Mrs. Basket Case and I talked about this last night, and came up with several scenarios that would end with the scene as it has been described.

My personal theory is that the son was shot first. Murdaugh then hollered for his wife (who undoubtedly heard the two blasts), saying the son’s hurt. Mama comes running, during which time Murdaugh has time to drop the shotgun, pick up the rifle and shoot the wife.

But there are lots of other perfectly plausible possibilities (including a second shooter) — IOW, reasonable doubt — and I think that poses a problem for the prosecution.

BTW — even if Murdaugh’s found not guilty of murder (I would favor the Scottish law verdict of Not Proven, but that’s not an option in the US), he still has a boatload of legal problems stemming from the theft from his former law firm and a bunch of clients. I doubt he makes it out of prison alive.

And none of that speaks to the civil suit from the family of the girl killed in the boat crash a couple of years ago -- where a drunk Paul Murdaugh was driving the boat.

 

[CoachJeff]

If anyone saw "Reacher" on Amazon last year this whole sordid tale reminds me of season 1.

 

[lowend]

I've listened to every episode of the Murdaugh Murders Podcast and Cup of Justice and the whole thing blows my mind; but, having lived and taught in small towns, I totally understand how people get away with stuff like that.

I think he's guilty, but I also think his defense team is playing for a mistrial or hung jury. The audio snippets I've heard from witnesses are very compelling toward guilty; but, you've had bomb threats, two alternate jurors sent home for COVID, and who knows what else. I hope we see guilty, but I doubt it.

 

[Padreruf]

I've listened to every episode of the Murdaugh Murders Podcast and Cup of Justice and the whole thing blows my mind; but, having lived and taught in small towns, I totally understand how people get away with stuff like that.

I think he's guilty, but I also think his defense team is playing for a mistrial or hung jury. The audio snippets I've heard from witnesses are very compelling toward guilty; but, you've had bomb threats, two alternate jurors sent home for COVID, and who knows what else. I hope we see guilty, but I doubt it.

The defense is banking on a hung jury at least. The Murdaughs have been picking juries, i.e., paying people, down here for decades. By not sequestering the jury you will get a "community verdict." No way the community can do that...

 

[lowend]

The defense is banking on a hung jury at least. The Murdaughs have been picking juries, i.e., paying people, down here for decades. By not sequestering the jury you will get a "community verdict." No way the community can do that...

Not changing venue has been a head scratcher. The state attorney general has been noticably silent. I wish someone would deep dive his relationship to the Murdaughs.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Not changing venue has been a head scratcher. The state attorney general has been noticably silent. I wish someone would deep dive his relationship to the Murdaughs.

Usually, I've thought of a change of venue as a protection for the defendant. As in, the crime is so heinous and there's been so much publicity that it's impossible to find an impartial jury in the area where it occurred.

This case is unusual in that the crime is heinous and has received tons of pre-trial publicity. But the defendant has good reason to want it tried in the local jurisdiction.

For our legal eagles: I know it's too late for this particular trial. But in general, can the prosecution request a change of venue? If so, is that done much at all?

 

[4Q Basket Case]

A new documentary mini-series called, "Murdaugh Murders: A Southern Scandal," is available on Netflix beginning February 22.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The wife and I watched the Dateline NBC documentary on this a few weeks ago. Good lord at the tangled web and cluster crap this guy has gotten into.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

The wife and I watched the Dateline NBC documentary on this a few weeks ago. Good lord at the tangled web and cluster crap this guy has gotten into.

Even if he beats the double murder charge (I think he did it, but expect a hung jury), he still has a boatload of criminal and civil liability related to the boat crash and thefts from his firm and clients.

One way or another, I think he dies in prison.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

The Netflix documentary has 3 episodes, each between 40 minutes and an hour. I watched the first one today.

Episode 1 really establishes that the murdered son (Paul) was an over-privileged, entitled, rich, brat punk. It also establishes the Murdaughs as exceedingly permissive parents.

- The Murdaughs freely and openly gave alcohol to the son, his girlfriend and their friends. The parents did so at the law offices, at home, and in travel, at a time when the kids were 16 - 17 years old.

-The Murdaughs took the son and his girlfriend on multiple trips. On at least one occasion (probably others, but only one was specifically mentioned), paid for them to stay in their own hotel room — also while still in high school.

- The girlfriend talked to Paul’s mother more than once about Paul’s drinking — again, this is at 17 or 18 years old — and was told, essentially, that boys will be boys….take him or leave him.

- On the night of the boat crash, Paul physically struck the girlfriend in the presence of their group of friends, calling her a really bad name in the process. One of the other girls said that he did it in a manner that made it clear it wasn’t the first time he’d hit her. In a different scene, unrelated to the boat crash, the girlfriend recounted an incident where Paul choked her and hit her on the knee with a clenched fist.

None of this speaks directly to the murders of Paul and his mother, so I’m not sure whether the last two episodes will concentrate on them or on the multi-tentacled mess surrounding the family.

 

[Padreruf]

Even if he beats the double murder charge (I think he did it, but expect a hung jury), he still has a boatload of criminal and civil liability related to the boat crash and thefts from his firm and clients.

One way or another, I think he dies in prison.

I think you are very much on target...however, I also expect a hung jury. They've bought a lot of good will through the decades...have paid off literally everyone in Hampton County in one way or another.

 

[Saban4Ever]

The Netflix documentary has 3 episodes, each between 40 minutes and an hour. I watched the first one today.

Episode 1 really establishes that the murdered son (Paul) was an over-privileged, entitled, rich, brat punk. It also establishes the Murdaughs as exceedingly permissive parents.

- The Murdaughs freely and openly gave alcohol to the son, his girlfriend and their friends. The parents did so at the law offices, at home, and in travel, at a time when the kids were 16 - 17 years old.

-The Murdaughs took the son and his girlfriend on multiple trips. On at least one occasion (probably others, but only one was specifically mentioned), paid for them to stay in their own hotel room — also while still in high school.

- The girlfriend talked to Paul’s mother more than once about the son’s drinking — again, this is at 17 — and was told, essentially, that boys will be boys….take him or leave him.

- On the night of the boat crash, Paul physically struck the girlfriend in the presence of their group of friends, calling her a really bad name. One of the other girls said that he did it in a manner that made it clear it wasn’t the first time he’d hit her. In a different scene, unrelated to the boat crash, the girlfriend recounted an incident where Paul choked her and hit her on the knee with a clenched fist.

None of this speaks directly to the murders of Paul and his mother, so I’m not sure whether the last two episodes will concentrate on them or on the multi-tentacled mess surrounding the family.

I just finished watching all 3 episodes. Definitely a lot of stuff going on with that family and the things Alex has done. I have not kept up with the trial in the news much, but now I plan to.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Well, Alex Murdaugh took the stand today, and played a variation of what Mrs. Basket Case and I call, “the fraternity boy defense.”

It’s what a fraternity boy pleads the morning after a drunken night of offensive and/or destructive conduct. He says, “Come on, man….brotherhood….I was drunk.”

IOW, “I was drunk, so what I said to whom and what I destroyed aren’t my fault and therefore don’t count against me. Because, you know….I was drunk.”

One of the prosecution’s key points is that Murdaugh has maintained since the murders that he was at his parents’ house when they happened. Trouble there is, the murdered son (Paul), took a video and sent it to a friend just minutes before his death, with Alex’s voice clearly heard in the background of the video.

Cornered like the rat he is, Alex Murdaugh‘s variation on the fraternity boy defense is, “OK, I lied about my alibi. And then I lied to cover up the lie. And then I lied to cover up the coverup. But I did it only because I was in a state of paranoia brought on by my opioid addiction. Thererfore the lies aren’t my fault, and you can believe me now.”

If this is the best his defense can come up with, I’m convinced he is guilty as charged. Whether all 12 of the jury agree is another question entirely.

Due to primarily to problems establishing a motive and secondarily to problems with the logistics of the shooting, I still expect a hung jury.

 

[Bazza]

---snip---
I also think the prosecution has a logistical problem it needs to reconcile: The wife was killed with a rifle. The son with a shotgun. The bodies were found near each other, and I’ve heard no mention of either being moved.
---snip---

Very good point and I agree with the possible scenario you and the Mrs. came up with.

Further, Murdaugh seems to be the kind of person who would concoct this idea of using two different guns - in order to deflect guilt in his direction.

---long snip---
I still expect a hung jury.

Can't blame anyone for feeling this way....but I think the jury sees through all his BS and he's found guilty.

We shall see.......

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Very good point and I agree with the possible scenario you and the Mrs. came up with.

Further, Murdaugh seems to be the kind of person who would concoct this idea of using two different guns - in order to deflect guilt in his direction.




Can't blame anyone for feeling this way....but I think the jury sees through all his BS and he's found guilty.

We shall see.......

Mrs. BC said the same thing about Murdaugh using two weapons to deflect suspicion.

Hope you’re right about the jury.

 

[twofbyc]

Well…right or wrong, once you lie (and I don’t buy the addiction excuse; I’ve been there and that excuse is just that, an excuse. He knew he was lying), any subsequent testimony is (has always been considered to be) unreliable.
Is he guilty? As sin. Will he be be convicted? Money is frequently (almost always, actually) a “get out of jail free” card. With no change of venue, it’s no better than a 50/50 shot IMO.
Change of venue, odds of conviction go way up.

 

[lowend]

If you've been keeping up with the entire thing, you'll recall the name Hakeem Pickney, who ended up dieing when his vent was mysteriously unplugged in a nursing home. Well, ole Alex was stealing money from him while pimping him out in a commerical. Scum.

 

[Padreruf]

Guilty on all counts...there is justice in SC no matter who you are or how much money you have...unbelievable.

 

[Bazza]

Guilty on all counts...there is justice in SC no matter who you are or how much money you have...unbelievable.

I never doubted he'd be found guilty.....

 

[4Q Basket Case]

WOW....just under 3 hours of deliberations. That's the jury saying not just "Guilty," but "Guilty as homemade sin, it's not close, and none of us believed a word of his garbage." I wonder if they actually reached verdicts within the first hour, and hung around a bit to make it look like they spent time on it.

I'm really surprised as well...I expected a hung jury, maybe 9 or 10 for conviction, with 2-3 feeling not proven, therefore not guilty.

Late add:
Alex made a lot of money legitimately from his law practice. Plus, he stole millions from clients. Plus, he stole still more from the law firm itself.

I saw where his older brother, and former partner in the law firm, sued him for non-payment of a debt (nice holiday dinners after that, I’m sure).

So I’m deadly curious as to where the money went. Alex didn’t use that much oxy-contin. Might have sold some so he could use for free and maybe make some money on the side. But the numbers just don’t work for $50 - $60K a week of personal usage.

So if it didn’t go for drugs, where did the money go?

One of the TV talking heads pointed out that Alex’s law firm is liable for the money stolen from clients. I’m guessing the funds to pay the defrauded clients will come from D&O insurance…which might lead to the discovery of a money trail.

The insurance company will want to get their money back. That will likely involve action against Alex’s assets. Which will involve tracing cash so they track down money Alex might have tried to hide. Which will involve forensic accountants. Who often rival the IRS for ruthlessness.

Padreruf has suggested rumors of gambling, which is one of the few ways to run through that much money that quick, with nothing to show for it. So maybe that’s it. I don’t know.

The main part of this story is done. But it isn’t entirely over yet.