Game Thread: NFL Wildcard Weekend Thread (All Posts Here for 1/15 and 1/16 Games)

B1GTide

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Agreed. I was hoping that was enough.

I think Shaun deserves it too, but I feel like there is a bias against him. Holmgren did him no favors, IMO.
He walked away from the game too soon to make the HoF. He made a choice, and it was the right choice for him and his family, but a few more years without too many injuries and he would be in.
 

81usaf92

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Have you ever noticed that Rodgers off the field is exactly what Brady haters act like Brady is… a self absorbed jerk that is an “I before team” guy that brags on his own greatness. People have had a harder time in the good guy vs bad guy narrative between Rodgers and Brady than they did with Peyton and Brady.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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I look at a guy like Terrell Davis being in the HOF, and his numbers pale in comparison to Shaun's. But he's got those 2 rings.
I disagree with this (at least in part).

Shaun Alexander's numbers don't "really" blow Terrell Davis' away because that's a comparison between a guy who had 532 more carries but (key stat here) carried the ball for 4.3 ypc while Davis carried it for 4.6 ypc. That's the key component as to why TD is in and Shaun is not. When you make comparison scores, Davis is in the Gale Sayers/Thurman Thomas/Marcus Allen category while Shaun falls more into the Otis Anderson/Freeman McNeil/Fred Taylor category of borderline/maybe cases. Now to be clear - YES, Shaun was better than those guys were, what undercuts his HOF case is he didn't have the long career of Anderson.

But you're right on another point that galls me: WHY is Terrell Davis in the HOF?
a) he had three "in the spotlight" big-time moments in a brief period of time that elevated his status
b) one of them was he was the fourth guy to rush for over 2,000 yards in a season
c) he was on a good team that won consecutive Super Bowls

He's not "really" in the Hall because of his career, he's in there because he captured everyone's attention multiple times in a short span, which persuaded folks he was even better than he was (and make no mistake, he WAS good).

Shaun Alexander might have some of the worst luck in the whole thing, too. He got hosed by his coach and - worse - his stats were during a period of transition of the NFL from the run-based offenses (largely) to the pass happy bomb throwing we have now. He's almost like Fred McGriff in baseball, a solid contributor with maybe a borderline Hall case who is hurt by where he played (other than when he was with the Braves) and the time he played (his prime/decline years were right as the steroid era was beginning).

I think Shaun will go in at some point, but he's not a slam dunk case nor do I sign off with the idea he was ever better than Terrell Davis, and I say this as an unabashed fan of Shaun Alexander.

And then remember that Pro Football Hall of Fame voting is among the biggest jokes this side of the Heisman Trophy.
 

81usaf92

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I disagree with this (at least in part).

Shaun Alexander's numbers don't "really" blow Terrell Davis' away because that's a comparison between a guy who had 532 more carries but (key stat here) carried the ball for 4.3 ypc while Davis carried it for 4.6 ypc. That's the key component as to why TD is in and Shaun is not. When you make comparison scores, Davis is in the Gale Sayers/Thurman Thomas/Marcus Allen category while Shaun falls more into the Otis Anderson/Freeman McNeil/Fred Taylor category of borderline/maybe cases. Now to be clear - YES, Shaun was better than those guys were, what undercuts his HOF case is he didn't have the long career of Anderson.

But you're right on another point that galls me: WHY is Terrell Davis in the HOF?
a) he had three "in the spotlight" big-time moments in a brief period of time that elevated his status
b) one of them was he was the fourth guy to rush for over 2,000 yards in a season
c) he was on a good team that won consecutive Super Bowls

He's not "really" in the Hall because of his career, he's in there because he captured everyone's attention multiple times in a short span, which persuaded folks he was even better than he was (and make no mistake, he WAS good).

Shaun Alexander might have some of the worst luck in the whole thing, too. He got hosed by his coach and - worse - his stats were during a period of transition of the NFL from the run-based offenses (largely) to the pass happy bomb throwing we have now. He's almost like Fred McGriff in baseball, a solid contributor with maybe a borderline Hall case who is hurt by where he played (other than when he was with the Braves) and the time he played (his prime/decline years were right as the steroid era was beginning).

I think Shaun will go in at some point, but he's not a slam dunk case nor do I sign off with the idea he was ever better than Terrell Davis, and I say this as an unabashed fan of Shaun Alexander.

And then remember that Pro Football Hall of Fame voting is among the biggest jokes this side of the Heisman Trophy.
Shaun will get in at some point in the next 15 years but you really have to start looking at who is clearly ahead of him that is not in. I think a case for next year or the next you could seriously seeing his name as a semi finalist but I think his best chance is in a weak class. He isn’t going in one in which the 2004 QBs were going or the inevitable Brady one.

This year I would say Andre Johnson is the headliner along with Reggie Wayne. Yeah Tory Holt and Richard Seymour. But the two receivers needed to be in. I’m not sold on Hester but recency bias is a curse amongst voters. But this is going to be the type of class Shaun comes in on. Maybe next year because your headliner 1st ballot guys are Revis and James Harrison, but again you usually start seeing long waits start to end when someone hits the semis. I’m still surprised that Bennett hit it last year.
 

TideEngineer08

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I disagree with this (at least in part).

Shaun Alexander's numbers don't "really" blow Terrell Davis' away because that's a comparison between a guy who had 532 more carries but (key stat here) carried the ball for 4.3 ypc while Davis carried it for 4.6 ypc. That's the key component as to why TD is in and Shaun is not. When you make comparison scores, Davis is in the Gale Sayers/Thurman Thomas/Marcus Allen category while Shaun falls more into the Otis Anderson/Freeman McNeil/Fred Taylor category of borderline/maybe cases. Now to be clear - YES, Shaun was better than those guys were, what undercuts his HOF case is he didn't have the long career of Anderson.

But you're right on another point that galls me: WHY is Terrell Davis in the HOF?
a) he had three "in the spotlight" big-time moments in a brief period of time that elevated his status
b) one of them was he was the fourth guy to rush for over 2,000 yards in a season
c) he was on a good team that won consecutive Super Bowls

He's not "really" in the Hall because of his career, he's in there because he captured everyone's attention multiple times in a short span, which persuaded folks he was even better than he was (and make no mistake, he WAS good).

Shaun Alexander might have some of the worst luck in the whole thing, too. He got hosed by his coach and - worse - his stats were during a period of transition of the NFL from the run-based offenses (largely) to the pass happy bomb throwing we have now. He's almost like Fred McGriff in baseball, a solid contributor with maybe a borderline Hall case who is hurt by where he played (other than when he was with the Braves) and the time he played (his prime/decline years were right as the steroid era was beginning).

I think Shaun will go in at some point, but he's not a slam dunk case nor do I sign off with the idea he was ever better than Terrell Davis, and I say this as an unabashed fan of Shaun Alexander.

And then remember that Pro Football Hall of Fame voting is among the biggest jokes this side of the Heisman Trophy.
I agree "pales in comparison" was not an apt description. But his numbers are a good bit better. You are correct the ypc stat hurts Alexander here.

I believe it was the 2000 yard season that pushed Davis into instant HOF status. Again, I won't ever forgive Holmgren for his stupidity and stubbornness which has negatively effected Shaun's career. Alexander was a pro at a time that not many Alabama guys were in the NFL, and I just don't feel he has ever gotten his due.
 

81usaf92

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If you had told any fans of 80s NFL that Roger Craig (49ers) would not be in the HOF by 2022, not a single fan would have believed you.

(I get the pro and con of his case - but nobody would have believed he wasn't a HOFer at the time he was playing. Same is true in baseball of Keith Hernandez and Steve Garvey).
2022 HOF

Predicting next year

Harrison
Revis
Ward
Bolden
Steve Smith
Eddie George
Ronde Barber (if he doesn’t get in this year)
 

selmaborntidefan

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I agree "pales in comparison" was not an apt description. But his numbers are a good bit better. You are correct the ypc stat hurts Alexander here.

I believe it was the 2000 yard season that pushed Davis into instant HOF status. Again, I won't ever forgive Holmgren for his stupidity and stubbornness which has negatively effected Shaun's career. Alexander was a pro at a time that not many Alabama guys were in the NFL, and I just don't feel he has ever gotten his due.
Well, I'm a lab guy with an eye for detail - probably would have made a good lawyer but my ADHD got in the way.

Shaun has a solid case. The problem with the NFL as compared to MLB is that you have MANY more good players to choose and who gets left out?

How is Everson Walls not in the HOF? I mean, I'm a Cowboy hater and I still don't get that one. Everyone talks about Charles Woodson's coverage and rightly so. He's in the Hall. He had 65 INTs. But Walls had 57 in his career when there were FAR FEWER PASSES and thus FAR FEWER OPPORTUNITIES to intercept. Walls' high was 11 in his rookie season and he led the league three times. Walls's 57 picks during his time are FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE than Woodson's in his time. Throw in that Woodson played the equivalent of more than four seasons' worth of games during a pass happy era and how in the world is Walls not there?

He only made the finalist list once.

As I said, I HATE the Cowboys, but I still evaluate these guys fairly.
 

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