The Decline of the DNC III

[Bamabuzzard]

HOLY SMOKES: CNN veteran pollster is completely FLABBERGASTED by new polling that reveals how Democrats are failing even FURTHER behind. "How is that possible, Democrats?!" "Democrats have traditionally been the party of the middle class. NO MORE...! Adios, amigos!" BRUTAL.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1929546587782484255

If we were to look at political parties and their supporters like businesses and customers. Democrats have gravitated (and continue to gravitate) to a customer base that doesn't represent a large portion of the country. I could also say the same thing about elements of the republican party. But I think the Dems have doubled down on it.

There used to be a local restaurant in our city that a lot of people loved to frequent. They had a very solid customer base and built it by creating a model that catered to that customer base. Then, at some point, they decided to start making changes to that model by making changes to the menu, changing the decor, and the overall ambience of the place. Slowly but surely, the customers that had built the business to what it became quit coming, and there wasn't enough of the new customer base to keep it open. I know the Dems have historically been the party for the "working class," but I think they have moved away from that customer base.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

neither party cares about the middle class

 

[Bamabuzzard]

neither party cares about the middle class

And that's what both of them have in common.

 

[UAH]

neither party cares about the middle class

I made several small contributions to Democratic candidates during the first Biden Campaign. Since then I am bombarded daily with request for contributions 30 to 50 emails every day. Not once in those five plus years has there been an appeal made to gain independent voters. The Democratic party is plagued by its strong bias toward left leaning and minority politics. Saving Public Radio receives nearly as much notice as the serious pocket book issues facing us all.

 

[Crimson1967]

I made several small contributions to Democratic candidates during the first Biden Campaign. Since then I am bombarded daily with request for contributions 30 to 50 emails every day. Not once in those five plus years has there been an appeal made to gain independent voters. The Democratic party is plagued by its strong bias toward left leaning and minority politics. Saving Public Radio receives nearly as much notice as the serious pocket book issues facing us all.

A friend of mine donated to Elizabeth Warren and has regretted it because he gets bombarded with emails.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

A friend of mine donated to Elizabeth Warren and has regretted it because he gets bombarded with emails.

I've mentioned this before but my brother - the Emmy Award winning news producer in Rhode Island - says answering the phone during the political campaign season drives him to drink pretty much. And he has said repeatedly - you CANNOT tell the difference between the Trump, Warren, and Bernie voters on a phone call as far as their attitude and demeanor. Yes, you can on issues. But he has said repeatedly that if a Warren or Sanders supporter called to rant, they were every bit as insane, every bit as rude, every bit as raging lunatic as the worst MAGA caller.

He said it isn't too bad when there's not an ongoing campaign, though; after all, there aren't very many MAGAs in New England in the first place.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

If we were to look at political parties and their supporters like businesses and customers. Democrats have gravitated (and continue to gravitate) to a customer base that doesn't represent a large portion of the country. I could also say the same thing about elements of the republican party. But I think the Dems have doubled down on it.

Democrats cultivated two groups very smartly over the years:
1) African-Americans
2) gay people

One of their biggest misreads is assuming Mexican Hispanics are African-Americans, a fact they keep finding out in numerous elections. And they don't seem to grasp there's a huge difference between "look, a gay person just wants to live in peace with the same rights everyone else has" and "look at all these used to be boys winning at girls sports and shattering records in the process." (Are they not paying attention to a number of LGBs, including Martina Navratilova and Andrew Sullivan? Apparently not).

I know the Dems have historically been the party for the "working class," but I think they have moved away from that customer base.

They got that reputation largely based on FDR and affixing the blame for the Great Depression on the GOP (like everything - there's some truth to that as well, but it's not as simple as 'elect Republicans, here comes a Depression', either). They have a bit of a point in the claim civil rights messed with their base, but they're always careful to never mention the bigger elephant in the room, the Vietnam War. Clinton did about as good a job as a President could do trying to rebuild it in a more moderate image, but Gore forsook a lot of that with his populist campaign.

The thing I still don't get is - how in the world can so many people (voters) memory hole who was President when the Covid-19 pandemic hit, and who did about as poor a job managing it as was humanly possible?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The thing I still don't get is - how in the world can so many people (voters) memory hole who was President when the Covid-19 pandemic hit, and who did about as poor a job managing it as was humanly possible?

Promises of "fixing" the economy seem to always get people excited. Then add on top of that promises to "clean up" Washington, cut wasteful spending, etc. Then, to add the cherry on top, promises to deport illegals, and all of a sudden, past sins become a distant memory.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Selma:
What the Democrats need to do is come up with a middle class agenda on the economy and the importance of taking care of the vulnerable and....WHAT....THE....HELL.......

Democrats Will Hand Out Free Tacos to Mock Trump – Mother Jones

The Democratic Party has commissioned a taco truck to serve free lunch outside the Republican National Committee’s DC headquarters beginning at noon on Tuesday. The giveaway is not just to mark taco Tuesday, says a Democratic National Committee staffer who tipped Mother Jones off about the free grub. The food is also meant to get under the skin of President Donald Trump, who has recently become associated with the acronym TACO—shorthand for Trump Always Chickens Out.


Oh, well that's almost as good......

 

[jthomas666]

Democrats have gravitated (and continue to gravitate) to a customer base that doesn't represent a large portion of the country. I could also say the same thing about elements of the republican party. But I think the Dems have doubled down on it.

It might be more accurate to say that the GOP has sworn eternal fealty to Trump while paying lip service to the masses.

The DNC also pays lip service to the masses, it just doesn't do a very good job of it.

 

[81usaf92]

It might be more accurate to say that the GOP has sworn eternal fealty to Trump while paying lip service to the masses.

The DNC also pays lip service to the masses, it just doesn't do a very good job of it.

if the goal is to win elections and they are winning elections then why change the message?

I think the core problem these last 8 years is the Democrats always seem to take the approach of “no one is stupid enough to vote for him other than the racists”. If the economy didn’t take a significant hit during COVID then it’s likely we would now be witnessing a far right dynasty because Democrats still have not learned who the average voter is. They are in desperate need of a new face.

 

[jthomas666]

if the goal is to win elections and they are winning elections then why change the message?

I could say something about not wanting to sell the country down the river to a charlatan, but who am I kidding?

I think the core problem these last 8 years is the Democrats always seem to take the approach of “no one is stupid enough to vote for him other than the racists”. If the economy didn’t take a significant hit during COVID then it’s likely we would now be witnessing a far right dynasty because Democrats still have not learned who the average voter is. They are in desperate need of a new face.

More accurately, "I cannot comprehend how anyone other than the uber-rich could vote for Trump." Which is a minor, but important distinction.

That attitude was fine right up until Trump won the first election. Since then, that party has been acting more like a punch-drunk fighter, convinced that the strategy that one that one fight will surely lead to victory again.

Ironically, the GOP needs a new face because otherwise Trump will run the country into the ground, while the DNC, ditto.

 

[81usaf92]

More accurately, "I cannot comprehend how anyone other than the uber-rich could vote for Trump." Which is a minor, but important distinction.

Well Caesar was rich far richer than the people who supported him ever could have dreamed, yet they marched on Rome all the same because they truly believed “he was one of them”. While we are on that Caesar’s family to include Caesar himself tried to overthrow the republic in an armed insurrection years before he crossed the Rubicon, and the people knew this and didn’t care.

What’s the correlation…. The average person hates the government and how its members have gotten rich over profiting over the Cold War and Post Cold War period, just like the Romans did after the Punic Wars. Trump has weaponized that anger and made a movement that isn’t going to go away until the Democrats can find a viable alternative in the minds of voters.

I’m not saying go far left with it, but right now they can’t just bank on “we are the anti Trump party” because it’s just a weak platform for voters. I would probably suggest start convincing the blowhards that have zero chance in 2028 not to run and have a good primary amongst strong candidates. Because ultimately 2028 might be a tipping point for the Democrats because the census projections don’t look very good for the future.

 

[jthomas666]

Well Caesar was rich far richer than the people who supported him ever could have dreamed, yet they marched on Rome all the same because they truly believed “he was one of them”. While we are on that Caesar’s family to include Caesar himself tried to overthrow the republic in an armed insurrection years before he crossed the Rubicon, and the people knew this and didn’t care.

What’s the correlation…. The average person hates the government and how its members have gotten rich over profiting over the Cold War and Post Cold War period, just like the Romans did after the Punic Wars. Trump has weaponized that anger and made a movement that isn’t going to go away until the Democrats can find a viable alternative in the minds of voters.

I’m not saying go far left with it, but right now they can’t just bank on “we are the anti Trump party” because it’s just a weak platform for voters. I would probably suggest start convincing the blowhards that have zero chance in 2028 not to run and have a good primary amongst strong candidates. Because ultimately 2028 might be a tipping point for the Democrats because the census projections don’t look very good for the future.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

 

[Bamaro]

neither party cares about the middle class

Their primary concern is getting re-elected. Nearly everything goes back to that.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

if the goal is to win elections and they are winning elections then why change the message?

I agree with this UP TO A POINT. Of course, it's also how the Republicans lost the White House in 1992, when Clinton pivoted enough to not come across like a clone of McGovern/Mondale/Dukakis; Bush ran the Cold War campaign that wasn't relevant to domestic problems.

I think the core problem these last 8 years is the Democrats always seem to take the approach of “no one is stupid enough to vote for him other than the racists”.

You'd think both parties would learn by now, wouldn't you?

Democrats wanted Nixon to win the nomination - because only an idiot would vote for Nixon.
Then they wanted that again - and got beat worse.
They wanted Reagan - and got clobbered.
They wanted Bush (it's hard to believe now but the 1988 Dems feared BOB DOLE was more of a solid presence on the top of the ticket than Bush).
They wanted Trump - three times, and they lost twice.

Of course, this isn't a Democratic only problem, either.

Republicans figured Bill Clinton was so tainted by scandal, they couldn't possibly lose.
He beat them twice.

I'm not near as certain given that history that Howard Dean would have lost in 2004 as everyone else is. Of course, sometimes it DOES work - Goldwater in 1964 and Mondale in 1984.

If the economy didn’t take a significant hit during COVID then it’s likely we would now be witnessing a far right dynasty because Democrats still have not learned who the average voter is. They are in desperate need of a new face.

I disagree, respectfully.

Because if Trump had won again in 2020:
a) his party would have been saddled with the egg prices/inflation problem
b) Trump himself would have blown up the GOP primary to install a relative to keep his behind out of prison, which would have splintered the party
c) we haven't had a "longer than 8 years" dynasty since the 80s Republicans - and in all honesty, if the Dems had had a better candidate than Dukakis, they might have won in 1988. That 12-year Reagan-Bush period is the only time since the Democrats held the White House 20 yeas that we've had any single party in charge longer than 8 years. Americans are notoriously unhappy and desire change simply for the sake of change.

Of course - if you're saying, "The Democrats are experts at blowing winnable elections" in regards to 2024 if Trump served two terms, I agree with you.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

More accurately, "I cannot comprehend how anyone other than the uber-rich could vote for Trump." Which is a minor, but important distinction.

That attitude was fine right up until Trump won the first election. Since then, that party has been acting more like a punch-drunk fighter, convinced that the strategy that one that one fight will surely lead to victory again.

I think a HUGE part of their problem going back to 1964 is STILL a problem: they really do think that Chicago is the very first city west of the Eastern Seaboard, and there are no other people in the country until they reach the West Coast cities (most notably San Francisco but also Seattle). We can cite example after example, but to use a prominent one: EVs ain't gonna fly as a policy out West. Even the most ardent endorsers of climate change or environmental voters (and I've met MANY of them in my year in Wyoming) point out that EVs are simply not going to work out there. Between snow coming out of nowhere, the fact you're at high altitudes, the fact there is literally no way to put enough charging stations to do that kind of a switch over - but when someone points this out to the city dwellers of New England or the Coast, they don't listen. Ever. When some East Coaster who doesn't own a car comes up with "we can raise X billion dollars with a 50 cent a gallon gas tax," don't expect to get a pat on the back from Washington State voters outside of Seattle.

The divide in this country still isn't "really" black and white or rich/poor; it's urban/rural and one group wanting to tax the other group for whatever reason. Ironically, that is exactly why our system of government keeps afloat.

Ironically, the GOP needs a new face because otherwise Trump will run the country into the ground, while the DNC, ditto.

Yep, that's the thing.

When Dole went down to defeat in 1996, the Republican Party had a problem: for the first time since pre-Ike, they didn't have a logical heir (Eisenhower begat Nixon who begat Ford who begat Reagan who begat Bush who begat Dole). They filled in that gap and went back to ancestral GOP logic (and Bush begat McCain and McCain begat Romney), but Trump quite frankly is the bastard child that ruined the party's inheritance, genealogy, and reputation.

Trumpism will not survive in the hands of someone who is not Trump.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I made several small contributions to Democratic candidates during the first Biden Campaign. Since then I am bombarded daily with request for contributions 30 to 50 emails every day. Not once in those five plus years has there been an appeal made to gain independent voters. The Democratic party is plagued by its strong bias toward left leaning and minority politics. Saving Public Radio receives nearly as much notice as the serious pocket book issues facing us all.

Here's the thing: the problem isn't even with the lean into the left or defensible civil rights goals.

The problem is that they have spent so many years living as "ANY criticism of a black person* NO MATTER HOW LEGITIMATE makes you a racist" that they are tongue-tied. It was to Biden's CREDIT that he could straddle the line and say, "Reform the police, don't defund the police" and win with people who aren't insane.

I'm always amused at the fact the average liberal Democrat can name Willie Horton but can't name the mentally lobotomized black man that Bill Clinton signed the warrant for his execution (that was carried out) on Friday and then appeared with his wife on "60 Minutes" after the Super Bowl on Sunday. (Methinks if Clinton was a Republican, we'd know that name quite well).

It is the UNWILLINGNESS to engage in nuance that hurts candidates. If one of them would go Full Seth Moulton and just say, "Nobody is checking genitals at the bathroom, but I draw the line at boys now girls competing in sports," they'd be shocked at how many people agree with them and would actually vote for them even if they disagreed with them on some issues.

(And no, Trump doesn't nuance, but the fact you're saying "but Trump" and then doing what he does doesn't really say much in one's favor, either).

* - obviously excepting Clarence Thomas and Ben Carson.

 

[81usaf92]

Yep, that's the thing.

When Dole went down to defeat in 1996, the Republican Party had a problem: for the first time since pre-Ike, they didn't have a logical heir (Eisenhower begat Nixon who begat Ford who begat Reagan who begat Bush who begat Dole). They filled in that gap and went back to ancestral GOP logic (and Bush begat McCain and McCain begat Romney), but Trump quite frankly is the bastard child that ruined the party's inheritance, genealogy, and reputation.

Trumpism will not survive in the hands of someone who is not Trump.

I don’t know how true that is. The Census is shaping up to be very unkind to Democrats going forward and 2028 is still everyone’s guess of what will happen. I think Democrats look far more favorable in 2028 than they do in 2032 and if Vance were to win in 28 then all hell could be unleashed.

Trumpism will survive as long as it proves viable in elections. I just don’t have the faith that Democrats are smart enough to know how to stop it before it does irreversible damage.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I don’t know how true that is. The Census is shaping up to be very unkind to Democrats going forward and 2028 is still everyone’s guess of what will happen. I think Democrats look far more favorable in 2028 than they do in 2032 and if Vance were to win in 28 then all hell could be unleashed.

Trumpism will survive as long as it proves viable in elections. I just don’t have the faith that Democrats are smart enough to know how to stop it before it does irreversible damage.

It sort of feels like some Dems are slowly coming to the realization that their current strategy of taking the wrong side of every 80/20 issue isn't working, but they don't want to risk political suicide by saying so. Instead, the only thing they seem to think they can do is just sit there and wait for the GOP to implode. That sounds like a gamble to me, but one that could conceivably happen given the GOP's history and propensity to do nothing with their opportunities handed to them. No one disappoints their electorate quite the way the GOP does.