The November 4, 2025 National/State/Local Election Thread

[Its On A Slab]

When forced to criticize Republicans, it's almost always done through the veil of "both sides are the same." Otherwise, it's open season on the Democrats with nary a peep about Trump.

Which is why they get the reputation as just being disaffected Republicans.

And when Republicans screw things up, they can say, "Don't blame me, I voted 3rd party." Just like a buddy of mine here in Des Moines. who abandoned his Bush 43 support when the economy went to Hell. "Oh, I voted for The Constitution Party." Bull crap.

 

[jthomas666]

 

[statgrad96]

The smallish subset of libertarians I've encountered have tended to be disaffected Republicans, and as such, much more prone to voting for the GOP if given no other choice. And I hardly ever hear them lambast Republicans like they spare no invective against Democrats.

You obviously don't follow Justin Amash...

But... the problem is, in order to run and have any chance at all of getting elected, you have to run under one party or the other. I'd say Jared Polis is more libertarian leaning as well.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

The smallish subset of libertarians I've encountered have tended to be disaffected Republicans, and as such, much more prone to voting for the GOP if given no other choice. And I hardly ever hear them lambast Republicans like they spare no invective against Democrats.

In my experience, libertarians are pretty split 50/50. I've met plenty who would easily pass for a Clinton-era Democrat. The more conservative-leaning libertarians would never be confused for a Bush-era Republican. And we tend to give the modern Dems credit for shamelessly being exactly what they say they are. Republicans have been pretending to be small-government adherents for decades, but they are just as full of crap now as they were back then.

 

[92tide]

Which is why they get the reputation as just being disaffected Republicans.

And when Republicans screw things up, they can say, "Don't blame me, I voted 3rd party." Just like a buddy of mine here in Des Moines. who abandoned his Bush 43 support when the economy went to Hell. "Oh, I voted for The Constitution Party." Bull crap.

i'm old enough to remember when they were very vocally opposed to "jack-booted government thugs"

 

[Its On A Slab]

i'm old enough to remember when they were very vocally opposed to "jack-booted government thugs"

And when Obumma was gonna turn old WW2 internment camps to house all the arrested Christians and conservative patriots. And the blue helmets of the UN were going to assist. Black helicopters as well.

 

[Huckleberry]

i'm old enough to remember when they were very vocally opposed to "jack-booted government thugs"

Today’s GOP/conservatives would find that pic to be quite satisfying (except for the unmasked gunman — they’d worry about his privacy).

 

[92tide]

And when Obumma was gonna turn old WW2 internment camps to house all the arrested Christians and conservative patriots. And the blue helmets of the UN were going to assist. Black helicopters as well.

operation jade helm

 

[Bodhisattva]

You realize that not everybody will have access to financial planners, right? I'm sorry to disturb your brand of "everybody should be just like me" thinking but some people are just not in a situation which affords them the same opportunities as you. They've worked all of their lives, sometimes more than one job at a time. They do depend on food stamps and SNAP not because they look for handouts but because that's how things worked out for them. They're not going to have a "retirement plan". But there are many old people who only have Social Security and Medicaid . How do you not realize this?

What an incredibly condescending and foolish response to what I wrote. I'm continually amazed at the lack of basic comprehension. For the record, I grew up desperately poor in a travel trailer (not a double-wide, not a single wide) in the sticks west of Mobile. I put myself in college, working up to three jobs to do so. Any leftover money I made I saved and invested. To this day, I have not spent a dollar of what I have invested. Everything has been reinvested for decades. I'm now fairly wealthy, and I earned it. If I can be successful, anyone can.

And my wife grew up desperately poor by international standards. She's now fairly wealthy, and she earned it. If she can be successful, anyone can.

And my standard is not to for the average individual to be wealthy. It's to be a responsible adult and pay your bills and not to be a mooch. I know that's a hard concept for Democrats to understand, but if an able-bodied adult is a long-term resident on the public dole, that person is a loser. I have no sympathy for them.

Your beloved big government lets people down by constructing SS so poorly that people will struggle if that's all they have in retirement. They shouldn't, but a lot of people spend their disposable income on crap for 50 years. That's a failure on the able-bodied individual. That's a failure on government.

How do you not realize this?

 

[JDCrimson]

What an incredibly condescending and foolish response to what I wrote. I'm continually amazed at the lack of basic comprehension. For the record, I grew up desperately poor in a travel trailer (not a double-wide, not a single wide) in the sticks west of Mobile. I put myself in college, working up to three jobs to do so. Any leftover money I made I saved and invested. To this day, I have not spent a dollar of what I have invested. Everything has been reinvested for decades. I'm now fairly wealthy, and I earned it. If I can be successful, anyone can.

And my wife grew up desperately poor by international standards. She's now fairly wealthy, and she earned it. If she can be successful, anyone can.

And my standard is not to for the average individual to be wealthy. It's to be a responsible adult and pay your bills and not to be a mooch. I know that's a hard concept for Democrats to understand, but if an able-bodied adult is a long-term resident on the public dole, that person is a loser. I have no sympathy for them.

Your beloved big government lets people down by constructing SS so poorly that people will struggle if that's all they have in retirement. They shouldn't, but a lot of people spend their disposable income on crap for 50 years. That's a failure on the able-bodied individual. That's a failure on government.

How do you not realize this?

Because yall are focusing on 2 different cohorts of people who are using SNAP for different purpose(s). She is talking about people who desperately need the assistance for whatever reason not knowing their circumstances. You are focusing on a different cohort who did not travel your path or have their efforts payoff the ways yours did.

Im pretty sure you had some things go your way in the journey toward your lifestyle. There are people in this world worse off and started worse off than you.

Everyone can benefit from more humility and a wider perspective on matters beyond their own individualism...

 

[Bodhisattva]

Because yall are focusing on 2 different cohorts of people who are using SNAP for different purpose(s). She is talking about people who desperately need the assistance for whatever reason not knowing their circumstances. You are focusing on a different cohort who did not travel your path or have their efforts payoff the ways yours did.

Im pretty sure you had some things go your way in the journey toward your lifestyle. There are people in this world worse off and started worse off than you.

Everyone can benefit from more humility and a wider perspective on matters beyond their own individualism...

Humility is nice. What is better in these discussions is critical thinking. And if you think I come to my conclusions on this subject based only on individual experience, you are flat out wrong.

Apparently 1 in 8 people apparently are on SNAP. That's pathetic. No way do I buy this is bad luck writ large. Overwhelmingly, people are poor due to their choices. Show me an able-bodied adult who is on the dole for any significant period of time, and I'll show you someone who has made cascading bad decisions their entire lives. Not acquiring any skill set that has market value. Having kids they can't afford. Choices that result in poor health. Spending money stupidly. We are the only country in the world where our poor have way too much food and a lot of misspent disposable income.

But, for giggles, let's just say that everyone is as no-fault pathetic as the Left would have us believe. And, per the Left, because people are so stupid, the only solution is apparently a big government one. All the more reason to have SS benefits that pay after 40-50 years of market returns, right? Yet, the Left tenaciously likes the garbage returns and perpetual near-bankruptcy of SS. Bizarre.

So, Leftist policy excuses (and thereby encourages) people to be pathetic in their working years and then favors a SS that gives them dimes instead of dollars in their retirement years. That's crazy-stupid.

 

[Bodhisattva]

The smallish subset of libertarians I've encountered have tended to be disaffected Republicans, and as such, much more prone to voting for the GOP if given no other choice. And I hardly ever hear them lambast Republicans like they spare no invective against Democrats.

FWIW, the last time I voted for a major party in a national race was for the Dems in 1992.

When forced to criticize Republicans, it's almost always done through the veil of "both sides are the same." Otherwise, it's open season on the Democrats with nary a peep about Trump.

Both sides are not the same, but both sides do suck.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I have seen people living beyond their means my entire lifetime and it is not entirely "rich" folks. Can't make rent or buy food but you've got an all inclusive phone plan from Verizon or AT&T. Your living paycheck to paycheck but you don't blink at a new $90k SUV. I have lived below my means for almost my entire adult life, socking away the max I can in 401(k) for as long as I've been employed. Now that I'm at the threshold of retirement I don't have to worry about wither SS is going to survive or not. Yeah, I'm driving a 10 year old truck and my wife drives a 12 year old Mercedes SUV but it's a nice feeling to know I can just keep on driving them as long as I want or could buy a new one tomorrow. That's financial freedom and you can only get it by 1) being lucky, 2) being fortunate enough to be a medical doctor or other high paying profession, or 3) SAVING AGGRESSIVELY from the day you first start that first job. Seriously, let them take the max out of your paycheck for 401(k). You'll miss it a little bit when you first start but you won't bat an eye after that because you are used to living off the net paycheck.

It's amazing witness how people who are constantly on the financial knife's edge spend their money. Car buying choices are quite revealing. I have never had a new car. My current one is a 2020 (bought in 2021) that I will probably own for another four of five years. My wife's most recent one is new because she wanted to try a hybrid and we couldn't find a good deal on a used one. She has had her car two or three years (after giving her ancient Camry to our daughter) and, like me, will likely put at least 250k miles on that car before going shopping again.

Meanwhile, one of my brothers, who I helped buy a house, but he hasn't paid his property taxes in years, instead spent money on a $50k Jeep, which he now can't afford to maintain. Should anyone feel sorry for him and give him some more help? I stopped years ago.

 

[Its On A Slab]

It's amazing witness how people who are constantly on the financial knife's edge spend their money. Car buying choices are quite revealing. I have never had a new car. My current one is a 2020 (bought in 2021) that I will probably own for another four of five years. My wife's most recent one is new because she wanted to try a hybrid and we couldn't find a good deal on a used one. She has had her car two or three years (after giving her ancient Camry to our daughter) and, like me, will likely put at least 250k miles on that car before going shopping again.

Meanwhile, one of my brothers, who I helped buy a house, but he hasn't paid his property taxes in years, instead spent money on a $50k Jeep, which he now can't afford to maintain. Should anyone feel sorry for him and give him some more help? I stopped years ago.

I haven't bought a NEW car since I was in my 20s in B'ham, wanting to impress the ladies with my new sporty Mazda. Everything after that, I aimed for late-model, low miles, 3-4 years on it. By that time, the car has depreciated almost 1/2.

I'm still driving the 2012 Subaru Outback I bought in 2016. It was a trade-in, and I got it for about half the original sticker price. I have always said that I want to drive a car until the wheels fall off. I'm getting fairly close now. I'm about a $900 repair estimate away from going out and getting another late-model Subaru.

Some people I know just like to always have new cars. Many of them lease cars so they can get a new one ever 3 years. To me, I just want to get the thing paid off, and enjoy not having a car payment. I've sunk some money in routine stuff in my Subaru (brakes, bearings, some oil pan issues) over the past few years, but none of the repairs come close to adding up to the regular $350-400 car payment.

 

[JDCrimson]

Humility is nice. What is better in these discussions is critical thinking. And if you think I come to my conclusions on this subject based only on individual experience, you are flat out wrong.

Apparently 1 in 8 people apparently are on SNAP. That's pathetic. No way do I buy this is bad luck writ large. Overwhelmingly, people are poor due to their choices. Show me an able-bodied adult who is on the dole for any significant period of time, and I'll show you someone who has made cascading bad decisions their entire lives. Not acquiring any skill set that has market value. Having kids they can't afford. Choices that result in poor health. Spending money stupidly. We are the only country in the world where our poor have way too much food and a lot of misspent disposable income.

But, for giggles, let's just say that everyone is as no-fault pathetic as the Left would have us believe. And, per the Left, because people are so stupid, the only solution is apparently a big government one. All the more reason to have SS benefits that pay after 40-50 years of market returns, right? Yet, the Left tenaciously likes the garbage returns and perpetual near-bankruptcy of SS. Bizarre.

So, Leftist policy excuses (and thereby encourages) people to be pathetic in their working years and then favors a SS that gives them dimes instead of dollars in their retirement years. That's crazy-stupid.

Critical thinking is necessary as much as humility in addressing the problem. As with most problems the right solution is probably in the middle of both of your perspectives. But there are too few people willing to compromise and too many with their heels dug in to do nothing but perpetuate our division which does nothing but enrich the media and politicians.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Humility is nice. What is better in these discussions is critical thinking. And if you think I come to my conclusions on this subject based only on individual experience, you are flat out wrong.

Apparently 1 in 8 people apparently are on SNAP. That's pathetic. No way do I buy this is bad luck writ large. Overwhelmingly, people are poor due to their choices. Show me an able-bodied adult who is on the dole for any significant period of time, and I'll show you someone who has made cascading bad decisions their entire lives. Not acquiring any skill set that has market value. Having kids they can't afford. Choices that result in poor health. Spending money stupidly. We are the only country in the world where our poor have way too much food and a lot of misspent disposable income.

But, for giggles, let's just say that everyone is as no-fault pathetic as the Left would have us believe. And, per the Left, because people are so stupid, the only solution is apparently a big government one. All the more reason to have SS benefits that pay after 40-50 years of market returns, right? Yet, the Left tenaciously likes the garbage returns and perpetual near-bankruptcy of SS. Bizarre.

So, Leftist policy excuses (and thereby encourages) people to be pathetic in their working years and then favors a SS that gives them dimes instead of dollars in their retirement years. That's crazy-stupid.

1 in 8 people on the dole is pathetic. But I don't know how to drastically improve that number without forcing companies to "overpay" for jobs on the low end of the career pyramid. The working poor make up a lot of those on SNAP. Everyone can't be doctors, lawyers, accountants, electricians, plumbers, HVAC workers, etc. For a society to function, there has to be people who exist to do the jobs at the bottom of the career pyramid. Garbage workers, construction workers, cashiers, waitresses, and all the other unskilled labor jobs that don't require an education but in the big scheme of things are very necessary to society. Granted, as parents, we don't teach our kids to strive for those positions, but at the end of the day, they'll always exist in every society and are necessary for a society to function.

I think there are approximately 40+ million people on SNAP benefits. If we could take those 40+ million and plug them higher up on the career pyramid in society, there would be several obvious consequences. Who's doing trash pickup? Who's available to work the unskilled construction job, run the checkout at the grocery stores or retail stores? It would also begin to suppress the wages of those already in those positions at the middle and top of the career pyramid. It would turn into a supply and demand issue. If we plugged an additional 10 million workers into any job sector you'd have employers having more applicants than jobs available which puts the employer in a leveraged position of being able to keep wages low, because they can find a worker for that job on any street corner. I remember when the nursing field became very popular back in the 80's and early 90's. Every HS girl you talked to said they were going to be a nurse. The field eventually got flooded, the salaries suppressed and it took years for it to cycle around to where there was a shortage that caused nurses pay to go up again.

I say all of that to say, I don't know the answer to getting people off SNAP benefits. I think there will always be a percentage of society on them, that has to be on them and is just a necessary evil society will have to deal with. I do know people working as a trash man, or a construction worker, retail clerk, grocery store clerk, etc aren't ever going to be able to much keep their head above water by depending just on those jobs. But society needs those types of jobs for it to function. So where's the balance?

 

[Bodhisattva]

Critical thinking is necessary as much as humility in addressing the problem. As with most problems the right solution is probably in the middle of both of your perspectives. But there are too few people willing to compromise and too many with their heels dug in to do nothing but perpetuate our division which does nothing but enrich the media and politicians.

Some more humility would be nice.

I would like to see society's parasites to maybe have some humility and not be parasitic. Maybe at some point their lives pick up a skill that will be rewarded in the marketplace. Maybe have a work ethic to actually utilize this new-found skill. Maybe not have out of wedlock children. Maybe not have any children until they can afford to care for them. Maybe raise those children not to be parasites. Maybe not spend time in the criminal justice system. Maybe not be an abuser of alcohol or drugs or food. (I include some of my family members in the above assessment.)

My wife has primarily worked in labor and delivery units during her career, involving thousands of deliveries. In most of those deliveries, the bill gets sent to the taxpayer. $10k - $20k easily. It doesn't take much mental math to realize that each one of these people are on the dole for many hundreds of thousands of dollars during their lifetime of negative achievement.

There's lots of room for humility. Yet our system rewards people who lack humility and achieve nothing and have a kid or six they can't afford along the way.

 

[Bodhisattva]

1 in 8 people on the dole is pathetic. But I don't know how to drastically improve that number without forcing companies to "overpay" for jobs on the low end of the career pyramid. The working poor make up a lot of those on SNAP. Everyone can't be doctors, lawyers, accountants, electricians, plumbers, HVAC workers, etc. For a society to function, there has to be people who exist to do the jobs at the bottom of the career pyramid. Garbage workers, construction workers, cashiers, waitresses, and all the other unskilled labor jobs that don't require an education but in the big scheme of things are very necessary to society. Granted, as parents, we don't teach our kids to strive for those positions, but at the end of the day, they'll always exist in every society and are necessary for a society to function.

I think there are approximately 40+ million people on SNAP benefits. If we could take those 40+ million and plug them higher up on the career pyramid in society, there would be several obvious consequences. Who's doing trash pickup? Who's available to work the unskilled construction job, run the checkout at the grocery stores or retail stores? It would also begin to suppress the wages of those already in those positions at the middle and top of the career pyramid. It would turn into a supply and demand issue. If we plugged an additional 10 million workers into any job sector you'd have employers having more applicants than jobs available which puts the employer in a leveraged position of being able to keep wages low, because they can find a worker for that job on any street corner. I remember when the nursing field became very popular back in the 80's and early 90's. Every HS girl you talked to said they were going to be a nurse. The field eventually got flooded, the salaries suppressed and it took years for it to cycle around to where there was a shortage that caused nurses pay to go up again.

I say all of that to say, I don't know the answer to getting people off SNAP benefits. I think there will always be a percentage of society on them, that has to be on them and is just a necessary evil society will have to deal with. I do know people working as a trash man, or a construction worker, retail clerk, grocery store clerk, etc aren't ever going to be able to much keep their head above water by depending just on those jobs. But society needs those types of jobs for it to function. So where's the balance?

We as a society need to quit rewarding bad behavior. I don't have a problem with welfare if it is a brief experience for a young adult just trying to get started. Say their first job terminates due to forces outside of their control, and they need help until they can be gainfully employed again. I have no problem with that. Yet, our system encourages people not to work. Far too many people are comfortable just getting by on the dole. And they are encouraged to keep having more and more children. Generation after generation. The incentive structure is ass-backwards.

I've been briefly homeless a couple of times in my life.* Both times I was left scrambling to find a place to live and slept in my car for a bit until I could get a new place. I learned to go without. It is a great motivator to achieve.

So is hunger. My wife can tell you about growing up always hungry. I've seen pictures of her and her siblings as children. Skin and bones. Talk about channeling that into motivation and achievement. She never felt sorry for herself or felt like someone else owed her anything. She just wanted the chance to control her own future. Once she got here, she took full advantage of it. When we visited Binghamton, NY a couple of weeks ago, a couple of Lan's former classmates told me a story I had not heard before. They marveled at Lan as a student. She spoke very little English, but she was in nursing school. Lan was always studying with two dictionaries. One was a dictionary of medical terms. The other was an English-to-Vietnamese dictionary. She had to do the three-way translation forwards and backward to be able to understand the material and then write about it. Hunger (both for food and a better life) is a great motivator.


*ETA: One time in particular is perversely amusing with time. I rented a room in a house from this guy in DC. I just started a job after business school and wanted to cut costs as much as possible to build up my bank account. The plan was to live like a hermit for year before going to rent a nice apartment. After several months, I come home to find all my possessions on the curb. It turns out Joe never owned the house. He was a squatter and made extra money be renting out a couple of the bedrooms. The eviction finally came through, and he fled, leaving his tenants to find out the hard way what was going on. And it was raining. So, most of my possessions (like my bed) were destroyed or stolen (my computer) by the wonderful neighbors. And I never saw Joe again. So, I had to stuff what remaining possessions I had into my car and sleep in it for a few days until I could secure a new place.

 

[UAH]

I grew up in cotton country in Madison County to some extent before the "race to space" began here. Echos of the Great Depresson were still obvious in rural Alabama in the 50's. Back then the Department of Agriculture distributed "commodities" at the county shed which consisted of cheese, canned beef, beans and other basic food items. That is how SNAP began.

Today Walmart receives $24 - $25 Billion from SNAP recepients as 94% of SNAP recepients shop at Walmart. It is reported that 14,500 Walmart employees receive SNAP benefits. The list of companies employing workers on SNAP benefits include McDonalds and Amazon.

The question becomes who benefits the most from the SNAP program.

Regardless of the controversy concerning who is deserving of SNAP is seems inarguable to me that big government programs, while well intended, create massive inequities and essentially waste billions in tax dollars.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I haven't bought a NEW car since I was in my 20s in B'ham, wanting to impress the ladies with my new sporty Mazda. Everything after that, I aimed for late-model, low miles, 3-4 years on it. By that time, the car has depreciated almost 1/2.

I'm still driving the 2012 Subaru Outback I bought in 2016. It was a trade-in, and I got it for about half the original sticker price. I have always said that I want to drive a car until the wheels fall off. I'm getting fairly close now. I'm about a $900 repair estimate away from going out and getting another late-model Subaru.

Some people I know just like to always have new cars. Many of them lease cars so they can get a new one ever 3 years. To me, I just want to get the thing paid off, and enjoy not having a car payment. I've sunk some money in routine stuff in my Subaru (brakes, bearings, some oil pan issues) over the past few years, but none of the repairs come close to adding up to the regular $350-400 car payment.

Kudos to you on your discipline. I can't stand to have debt. The only debt my wife and I carry are mortgages on our house and some of the investment properties. The interest on them is so low (e.g. 3% on our home) that it doesn't make sense to pay them off early. We compromise a bit by paying an extra $1000 a month on our house. because having debt irritates us. LOL!

I should make clear that people should have whatever interests/hobbies they want - like being a "car guy" - as long as they can afford to do so. Makes no difference to me what someone does as long as they aren't a drain on society. I'm just not a car guy. That is one purchase that can get very expensive - initially and downstream - and put a lot of people in a financial hole. It becomes a habit.

Way back in the day, in my lawyer years, I worked with this guy who loved BMWs so much that he didn't go more than two years without a new one. And this guy's earning potential seemed to peak around age 30 for some reason. He was always changing jobs and working for less and less prestigious firms. His job losses were always for political reasons, or someone had it out for him. It was never his lack of professionalism or mediocre acumen as a lawyer. Anyway, his appetitive for new BMWs never changed. That's a lot of revolving high/bad debt. (I have no doubt his credit score sucked and so did the corresponding interest rates on his car note.) That's some expensive overcompensation!